How Different Types Of Estrogen Promote (and Hinder) Hair Growth

[Canuto]

Thanks for the link, that company looks like it produces a number of compounded medications that I think would be useful, although I feel like I'll have difficulty getting a doctor to prescribe some of the more nontraditional compounded medication.

Is the main benefit of topical progesterone its antagonism of the mineralcorticosteroid receptor? I understand that progesterone functions as an antigonadotropin, but surely topically applied progesterone won't have that strong of an effect on testosterone levels, right? I also know that topical progesterone is experimentally linked to improved skin health, but I'm not sure what mechanism causes that?

Also, is there any potential of progesterone being carcinogenic?

No, it's a "neutral" hormone, precursor to other sex hormones, through different pathways. It gets 5-a reduced into DHP and then converted into allopregnanolone, which is crucial for cognitive sharpness and function.
It's both a DHT and estrogens antagonist, which makes it a 2 edged sword, but its effect on progesterone hairs and skin receptors seems to override the possible negative outcome of lowered estrogenic activity in these 2 tissues.
It was the gold standard for Androgenetic Alopecia before finasteride was launched on the market and some doctors still claim its superiority on hair loss over finasteride.

Bio-identical hormones, including progesterone, are safe when used in regular amounts. They are the same exact hormones your body produces and the body knows what to do with them pretty well.
Synthetic progestins though are a complete different story.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

sorry if this is a stupid question: so can taking soy isoflavones help with hairloss such as genistein and daidzein?

Unlikely. Only Estrogen can re-start dormant hair follicles. Any phytochemical able to do this is going to be feminizing as well; same with saw palmetto. It boggles my mind to see the random things people are putting on their heads....

 

[inmyhead]

No, it's a "neutral" hormone, precursor to other sex hormones, through different pathways. It gets 5-a reduced into DHP and then converted into allopregnanolone, which is crucial for cognitive sharpness and function.
It's both a DHT and estrogens antagonist, which makes it a 2 edged sword, but its effect on progesterone hairs and skin receptors seems to override the possible negative outcome of lowered estrogenic activity in these 2 tissues.
It was the gold standard for Androgenetic Alopecia before finasteride was launched on the market and some doctors still claim its superiority on hair loss over finasteride.

Bio-identical hormones, including progesterone, are safe when used in regular amounts. They are the same exact hormones your body produces and the body knows what to do with them pretty well.
Synthetic progestins though are a complete different story.

What doctors claim taht progesterone is better? I haven't seen anyone posting result pictures from progesterone.

 

[Canuto]

What doctors claim taht progesterone is better? I haven't seen anyone posting result pictures from progesterone.

Dr. Marliani, head of the Italian thricologist society. Obviously, I'm reluctant to believe it will do anything by itself, like everything out there (if we exclude the hyper-responders to some molecules), but I don't see any reason not to use it topically, especially if you're low in serum levels like me.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

What doctors claim taht progesterone is better? I haven't seen anyone posting result pictures from progesterone.

Progesterone is always trailing estrogen in terms of effects and interest. I have not seen pictures of any progesterone-only protocols either. If progesterone really had substantial effects, wouldn't we know that by now, given that balding males will almost literally use topically or ingest anything non-toxic and maybe even some of those, to regrow hair? In the MtF context, it is all but impossible to really distinguish anecdotally because everyone is always using estrogen concurrently. Many use estrogen without progesterone but it is rare to see the converse.

 

[Schitz Popinov]

Unlikely. Only Estrogen can re-start dormant hair follicles. Any phytochemical able to do this is going to be feminizing as well; same with saw palmetto. It boggles my mind to see the random things people are putting on their heads....

That statement is hard to understand. The average male over 40 is likely estrogen dominant by that point, which only worsens with age. As we've seen - that's around the time balding really kicks into gear for many. So why then is estrogen not "re-starting" dormant hair follicles? Improper balance of estrogen to whatever else?

The irony is that if you flood a man with estrogen and progestins - he can grow hair again, but at the cost of his manhood.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

That statement is hard to understand. The average male over 40 is likely estrogen dominant by that point, which only worsens with age. As we've seen - that's around the time balding really kicks into gear for many. So why then is estrogen not "re-starting" dormant hair follicles? Improper balance of estrogen to whatever else?

The irony is that if you flood a man with estrogen and progestins - he can grow hair again, but at the cost of his manhood.

The estrogen dominance theory? Seriously?

And manhood? It's not like that when you are on the inside. You lose the fear. The humiliation isn't there anymore. I can go back whenever I want to and theoretically use dutasteride but I don't want to go back. I find testosterone oppressive. But yeah, it's a total mind-blank but it is so much more interesting. We each have our path in life but females are just females and I am not quite one of them or one of you guys and I am fine with that.

My gig is that I have been moving towards complete androgyny and i want to experience that fully and while my hair is great for a 56 year old man, it's not for a woman and I think that it can be and soon. And I am documenting all of it on the hormonal life thread and I mean all of it to the extent that anyone wants to know plus I have used everything that remotely works on the planet and I am a genius so come and see. Best wishes.

 

[ElToso]

Dr. Marliani, head of the Italian thricologist society. Obviously, I'm reluctant to believe it will do anything by itself, like everything out there (if we exclude the hyper-responders to some molecules), but I don't see any reason not to use it topically, especially if you're low in serum levels like me.

I’m skeptical about progesterone, it can lead to dht formation through alternative pathways

 

[ElToso]

@pegasus2 What made you choose estriol over estrone?

 

[pegasus2]

@pegasus2 What made you choose estriol over estrone?

Estriol is selective for ER-beta, which is less feminizing and should be more beneficial for hair growth. ER-alpha promotes breast growth, and has been shown to promote catagen.

 

[Canuto]

I’m skeptical about progesterone, it can lead to dht formation through alternative pathways

Remember that all you need is local inhibition, through whatever method please you most.

 

[Canuto]

Estriol is selective for ER-beta, which is less feminizing and should be more beneficial for hair growth. ER-alpha promotes breast growth, and has been shown to promote catagen.

Estrone can force the hair into anagen by itself and it's way more powerful than estriol. Female alopecia are usually triggered by a lack of local activity of estrone.
It's pretty abundant in male serum as well, that's why it has been used in topicals in Italy since many years. Some use it in a sulphate form, so once it gets absorbed it's inactive, but to be effective on the hairs you need to have a good sulphatase activity on hair follicles. Or you can go with the bio-identical form topically.

This is an interesting article in Italian about it, but you will have to use a translator:

https://www.sitri.it/document/gli-estrogeni-in-tricologia/

 

[pegasus2]

Estrone can force the hair into anagen by itself and it's way more powerful than estriol. Female alopecia are usually triggered by a lack of local activity of estrone.
It's pretty abundant in male serum as well, that's why it has been used in topicals in Italy since many years. Some use it in a sulphate form, so once it gets absorbed it's inactive, but to be effective on the hairs you need to have a good sulphatase activity on hair follicles. Or you can go with the bio-identical form topically.

This is an interesting article in Italian about it, but you will have to use a translator:

https://www.sitri.it/document/gli-estrogeni-in-tricologia/

Just use a higher dose of estriol. Estrone has about equal affinity for ER alpha and beta, making it much more likely to cause gyno or cancer. Having selectivity towards ER-b makes estriol safer, and it should be more effective at promoting hair growth. You just need a higher dose of it.

 

[Canuto]

Just use a higher dose of estriol. Estrone has about equal affinity for ER alpha and beta, making it much more likely to cause gyno or cancer. Having selectivity towards ER-b makes estriol safer, and it should be more effective at promoting hair growth. You just need a higher dose of it.

I may end up using both in my topical, but for now I'll stick with estrone bio-identical. I'm on TRT, it doesn't change anything in terms of sides in my case.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I can't remember where I saw your pics, Mr. flying horse but I was impressed because cis-males rarely show any impressive growth. Still, is it going to be enough for you? Are you sure hair itself, isn't addictive, as opposed to estrogen, which I think is definitely addictive in itself for many.

 

[pegasus2]

It's never enough until it's perfect. I'll keep going with treatment as long as I'm making progress, and then I'll get a hair transplant to make up the rest.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

You might look into micro-needling for making transplants work better by using them afterwards to reduce scarring, induce collagen and perhaps induce cross-talk. It might be possible to create new follicles. Look at the mouse plucking studies. Cheers.

 

[Canuto]

I've gone through the papers linked regarding ER-alpha and ER-beta and all we have as data are 2 rodents studies.
It also clashes with the re-growth results we have seen with estradiol, which has the same affinity for ER-a and ER-b. Being 100:100, you would have the same inhibiting vs enhancing activity, yet the enhancing activity prevail and you usually see a modest/good hair re-growth.
And it doesn't go along with the usual improvement of thricograms seen with topical estrone that has been used topically in Italy since 2 decades or the female hair loss triggered by a lack of local estrone activity.

Anyone knows any paper done in vivo?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Hair loss as related to a bodily wound:

Wound healing
Collagen is one of the body's key natural resources and a component of skin tissue that can benefit all stages of wound healing.[16] When collagen is made available to the wound bed, closure can occur. Wound deterioration, followed sometimes by procedures such as amputation, can thus be avoided.

Collagen is a natural product and is thus used as a natural wound dressing and has properties that artificial wound dressings do not have. It is resistant against bacteria, which is of vital importance in a wound dressing. It helps to keep the wound sterile, because of its natural ability to fight infection. When collagen is used as a burn dressing, healthy granulation tissue is able to form very quickly over the burn, helping it to heal rapidly.[17]

Throughout the 4 phases of wound healing, collagen performs the following functions in wound healing:

• Guiding function: Collagen fibers serve to guide fibroblasts. Fibroblasts migrate along a connective tissue matrix.
• Chemotactic properties: The large surface area available on collagen fibers can attract fibrogenic cells which help in healing.
• Nucleation: Collagen, in the presence of certain neutral salt molecules can act as a nucleating agent causing formation of fibrillar structures. A collagen wound dressing might serve as a guide for orienting new collagen deposition and capillary growth.
• Hemostatic properties: Blood platelets interact with the collagen to make a hemostatic plug.

So, under HRT, the body appears to re-matrix tissue of all types, except for bone. I believe this is responsible for the amazing youth effects seen in MtFs in which they can appear a decade or more younger after reaching adult female targets. @bridgeburn modeled this youth effect but some of it comes from lack of beard growth and the effect of a full head of long hair upon perception of youth. Why wouldn't the scalp hair system re-matrix as well? The skin effects of estradiol are well acknowledged and often take place immediately under HRT.

Male skin is coarse and rough comparatively and might not provide a suitable environment for post-pubertal hair growth in cis-males as they age and skin composition changes more and more to a coarse, leathery organ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wound_healing

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

You guys are the lords of pathways and high level stuff. Can anyone comment regarding the following:

Hi janey, it's fchopin from Reddit.
Sorry for the late reply, I have to go to bed early. I'm currently on a zoladex injection and going through the t flare stage, and so was wondering how effective topical bicalutamide in a dmso solution would be. Being trans, the drug going systemic wouldn't be an issue, and bica dissolves well in DMSO. The worry I have is dosing, and would it be dangerous having bica shoot straight into the blood stream. Others on the forum have explored the idea, but were wary of systemic absorption, and were only using an ethanol based solution. If I were to try this, it would be by crushing 150mg casodex pills.

Thanks.