How often do you wash your hair?
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SE-freak said:
Pretty certain, yeah. Kligman and Shelley did a series of experiments way back in 1958 which seemed to show that sebum is produced continuously, without regard to what's sitting on the surface of the skin. That's now apparently the accepted view of the dermatological profession.
Bryan
templerecession
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Don't know if this is helpful but most Asians do wash their hair daily. And they usually have very thick hair.
I personally have found that my minoxidil and propecia works better when the scalp is clean and not inflammed.
Its all a matter of preference, but washing hair 2-3 times a week may not be enough to sooth an inflammed scalp which is typical of someone suffering from male pattern baldness or minoxidil irritation.
I personally have found that my minoxidil and propecia works better when the scalp is clean and not inflammed.
Its all a matter of preference, but washing hair 2-3 times a week may not be enough to sooth an inflammed scalp which is typical of someone suffering from male pattern baldness or minoxidil irritation.
KipWinger
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i thinck that to many wash is bad, but how many times you need to wash your hair depends person to person. i wash my hair every day one time. but some years ago i only washed my hair 4 times a week. but now my scalp produces more sebum, and i think is better to have a scalp clean whashing more times than not washing and having the scalp dirty. but you need to be carefull to not wash more than you need! :lol:
michael barry
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Dr. Loren Pickart has stated to "always use a minumum of shampoo and conditioner" in a thread on his forum which you can scroll down and look at here http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/groupee/f ... 9870059423
Dr. Pickart is the inventor of Tricomin, Folligen, GraftCyte, and American Crew so he KNOWS as a molecular biologist what he is talking about.
Ive also seen advised on his site not to shampoo more than once a day or if you do, just briefly. Tom Hagerty has stated that excessive shampoo use might cause some sub-clinical inflammation around the hair follicle.
If you all think about it just a second, you shouldnt wash your scalp any harder than you wash your arm. How much do you "scrub" your arm? 3-5 passes with a soapened washcloth? Gets the skin clean right? Your scalp has a very important layer of subcutaceous fat that balding people tend to lose as they age. Superlathering with fingers pressing to hard for an entire minute under very hot water is overwashing the scalp. It would be better to lather the hair proper and only briefly lather the scalp itself. Ive also seen it advised on Pickart and Hagerty's forum that only warm, not REAL hot water should be used on the scalp and cool water to rinse it (Im guessing to improve circulation, reduce swelling, close pores to suficants, maybe increase lymph drainage).
I too, got interested in the subject of the demodex mites for a while because they are always present in balding men. However, they are almost always present in EVERYONE else also. I considered for a time that perhaps they could be what triggers an overactive immune response, but nioxin researchers made their "rediscovery" of demodex in the late 90's. If that were the reason we balded, it would have been discovered and reported on by now.
By the way, Ive also read that the alchohol in shampoo dries the scalp and can lead to the sebaceous glands over producing sebum to compensate as your hair needs the lubrication of sebum as it emerges from the dermis (or it has been so postulated). Armando Jose's, a chemist, website againstalopeciaandbaldness.com, has beacoup info about sebum. He contends that sebum retention back downward toward the dermal papilla and not up to the skin is the triggering mechanism of baldness. I disagree, but he's published and thats his theory. He's also a nice guy.
Dr. Pickart is the inventor of Tricomin, Folligen, GraftCyte, and American Crew so he KNOWS as a molecular biologist what he is talking about.
Ive also seen advised on his site not to shampoo more than once a day or if you do, just briefly. Tom Hagerty has stated that excessive shampoo use might cause some sub-clinical inflammation around the hair follicle.
If you all think about it just a second, you shouldnt wash your scalp any harder than you wash your arm. How much do you "scrub" your arm? 3-5 passes with a soapened washcloth? Gets the skin clean right? Your scalp has a very important layer of subcutaceous fat that balding people tend to lose as they age. Superlathering with fingers pressing to hard for an entire minute under very hot water is overwashing the scalp. It would be better to lather the hair proper and only briefly lather the scalp itself. Ive also seen it advised on Pickart and Hagerty's forum that only warm, not REAL hot water should be used on the scalp and cool water to rinse it (Im guessing to improve circulation, reduce swelling, close pores to suficants, maybe increase lymph drainage).
I too, got interested in the subject of the demodex mites for a while because they are always present in balding men. However, they are almost always present in EVERYONE else also. I considered for a time that perhaps they could be what triggers an overactive immune response, but nioxin researchers made their "rediscovery" of demodex in the late 90's. If that were the reason we balded, it would have been discovered and reported on by now.
By the way, Ive also read that the alchohol in shampoo dries the scalp and can lead to the sebaceous glands over producing sebum to compensate as your hair needs the lubrication of sebum as it emerges from the dermis (or it has been so postulated). Armando Jose's, a chemist, website againstalopeciaandbaldness.com, has beacoup info about sebum. He contends that sebum retention back downward toward the dermal papilla and not up to the skin is the triggering mechanism of baldness. I disagree, but he's published and thats his theory. He's also a nice guy.
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michael barry said:
Hair has no need whatsoever of sebum. Kligman doesn't even believe that skin has need of sebum, much less hair.
Sebaceous glands don't know and don't care whether or not there's sebum on the surface of the skin or in the hair.
Bryan
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PowerSam said:
michael barry said:
There is apparently NO known or proven use for sebum. Read this:
"Sebum Secretion and Sebaceous Lipids", Stewart et al, Dermatologic Clinics -- Vol. 1, No. 3, July 1983 (BTW, the "Kligman" they refer to below is Dr. Albert M. Kligman, MD, PhD, one of the most famous names in the history of dermatology):
"Sebum is an oily substance that is secreted onto the skin surface from glands located in the dermis. Although a number of useful functions have been proposed for sebum, proof that sebum performs any of them is lacking. In furred mammals an essential function of sebum is to supply 7-dehydrocholesterol, which is converted to vitamin D by the action of sunlight and then ingested by the animal as it grooms itself. In man, however, the location of 7-dehydrocholesterol has been shown to be the epidermis rather than sebum. Sebum may act as a waterproofing agent for fur, but humans obviously have little need for this function. Kligman has specifically disproved the notions that sebum improves the barrier function of skin, that sebum helps to regulate the water content of the horny layer by forming emulsions with sweat, or that sebum on the skin surface is fungistatic or antibacterial.(21) Kligman regards the human sebaceous glands as 'living fossils' that lost their usefulness to our species as we lost our fur.(21)
(21) Kligman, A. M.: The uses of sebum? In Montagna, W., Ellis, R. A., and Silver, A. F. (eds.): Advances in the Biology of Skin. Volume 4. Oxford, Pergamon Press, 1963."
S Foote.
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Bryan said:
Klingman's study is a good example of a completely pointless, irrelevant, and dangerously misleading `study', that only people with a distorted view of real science would take seriously. :wink:
Klingmans reasoning that `dipping' hairs into sebum could possibly replicate, or be in any way relevant to what happens `in-vivo', is just ridiculous.
It is `very' obvious from the location that nature placed sebaceous glands (within the hair follicle itself), that the in-vivo `system' evolved to `inject' sebum `directly' into the hair shaft. The dynamics of this effect, is a world away from Klingman's `soaking' experiments.
In the real world, it is widely accepted that sebum evolved to waterproof hair or feather!! Without this effect, the function of both hair and feather is compromised. For example, ducks would sink :wink:
This distraction apart, i don't think that any androgen driven changes in sebum production, have any causal effect in male pattern baldness.
S Foote.
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S Foote. said:
Why is that?
rico24 said:
OH REALLY??
So answer this very simple question: does sebum IN FACT get "injected" into human hair shafts??
BTW, FYI: it's my understand that in some species, the sebaceous gland doesn't necessarily empty-out into the hair follicle shaft. It empties-out directly onto the surface through its own duct.
rico24 said:
Damnit, I just HATE IT when you say something I agree with! Makes me wanna re-think my position! :wink:
Bryan
petemitchell
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I shampoo every day, sometimes twice a day on the days I've been to the gym or am going out in the evening.
S Foote.
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Bryan said:S Foote. said:
Why is that?
rico24 said:
OH REALLY??
So answer this very simple question: does sebum IN FACT get "injected" into human hair shafts??
Yes, the philosebaceous design indicates that Bryan. What is more, the big difference in Klingmans sebum absorbtion tests and the real situation is this.
Klingman used `old' hair, that is fully `shrunken' . In the in-vivo follicle however, newly forming hair is exposed to the sebum `injection'. the gaps between the hair cells are more open at this time, and it is likely in my opinion that the sebum can penetrate between the layers and upwards.
Bryan said:
Correct Bryan, in birds it's called a preening gland, and they can spread oil over the feathers with their beaks manually.
I don't know of specific examples of `seperate' oil glands in hairy species, and at least on topic here our arrangement is `direct', with incidental `pick up' as well.
Bryan said:
Is that why you have changed my name to Rico Bryan? :lol:
In my opinion, sebum only add's to the hair loss factor, if the sebum in our balding follicles gets infected, then the local inflammation effects the follicle.
S Foote.
petemitchell
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jeffsss said:
I'd say I lose between 15 and 20 hairs in the shower, on days I shampoo twice I lose maybe between 5 and 10 on the second shower I have.
I only have one, two at most hairs on my pillow when I wake up.
But I *think* I'm shedding more hairs than usual which is one of the reasons why I'm about to give propecia a go.