How often do you wash your hair?
- Thread starter VeryUpset
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S Foote.
Experienced Member
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Bryan said:
I have no clue what you're talking about. The only reason I mentioned the 'binge drinker' is because it utterly destroys your theory that FAEEs only get into hairs from sebum WITHIN THE FOLLICLE. The only way you have of wiggling out of that problem is to claim that the 'binge drinker' was LYING about his drinking habits.
I've been trying to explain to you that yes, FAEEs get into hairs from sebum, BUT NOT JUST WITHIN THE FOLLICLE. Suddenly I'm no longer quite so sure whether you really ARE just "playing dumb", or if you're genuinely obtuse.
S Foote. said:
LOL!! The data indicate that something on the order of about 5 parts per million of FAEEs were being absorbed into the hairs. I'd probably call that a trace amount of fatty acid ethyl esters, and I think most other people would, too! :wink:
In contrast, the total amount of "greasy residue" (SEBUM, in other words) recovered from the EXTERIOR of the hair amounted to nearly 10% of the total weight of the hair!! Tell me, Stephen: do you think that 10% of the INTERIOR of the hair also consisted of sebum?? :lol:
S Foote. said:
I acknowledged to you that relative traces of sebum probably diffuse into the hair shaft.
S Foote. said:
Yes. That's the only explanation for their results, and it's the same one the researchers present.
Bryan[/quote:0ac14]
I am pretty sure that everyone here is now as bored with this debate as i am, so this will be my last word on the issue.
I only entered this thread because you were `insisting' using Kligmans study, that the hair shaft does not absorb sebum.
So now you concede above that sebum `does' penetrate the hair shaft, quote:
Bryan said:
All i would say is, if you accept that sebum `can' penetrate the hair shaft, you must accept that this could easily happen in the follicle where the shaft is `soaked' in sebum.
This was the initial point i made.
But in signing off from this question, i say again that i don't think the sebum `pathway' whatever it is has any causal effect in male pattern baldness.
S Foote.
ShedMaster
Senior Member
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so how often do you guys wash your hair?
S Foote.
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 66
Dave001 said:
Then go ahead and tame me Dave!!
Instead of these easy `of the cuff' insults you like to throw out to me and others, why don't you start a thread where you explain to everyone why my theory is not based on scientific principles?
Go on, i dare you :wink:
But i know you won't do that, because you are just a sad mentally disturbed individual, who add's nothing positive to these debates :roll:
I think even Bryan is becoming embarassed by the way you follow him around in these threads 8)
S Foote.
S Foote.
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
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Dave001 said:
Just as you claimed that Ockhams razor refuted my theory `THEN' refused to say how, you now make another claim that you won't elaborate on.
I didn't see you entering my debate here with Bryan? If you had a problem with my argument, you should have said so in the debate!
Again, if you have anything that remotely amounts to a scientific argument against my theory, start a thread in the research forum.
If not, just shut up and stop wasting my time. I have a life outside of internet forums even if you don't.
S Foote.
ShedMaster
Senior Member
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SE-freak said:
how do you feel about emu oil?
ShedMaster
Senior Member
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possibly if taken orally?
- Reaction score
- 42
S Foote. said:
Actually, those were words that you were mostly putting in my mouth. By far the main thing I'm interested in is what Kligman himself was talking about in plain English; namely, the question of how sebum gets tracked onto hair. To what extent that hairs absorb sebum is a separate issue, and your obsession with that is misplaced.
S Foote. said:
All i would say is, if you accept that sebum `can' penetrate the hair shaft, you must accept that this could easily happen in the follicle where the shaft is `soaked' in sebum.
This was the initial point i made.[/quote:a0015]
Yes, I acknowledge that small amounts of sebum diffuse into hairs, possibly even within the confines of the hair follicle, but I ask you again: SO WHAT? That's not particularly relevant to anything. What Kligman was discussing was HOW SEBUM GETS TRACKED ONTO HAIRS, and you attacked him by bringing up some entirely different issue. You appeared to be trying to find fault, just for the sake of finding fault.
Sebum clearly gets tracked onto hairs OUTSIDE of the hair follicle, because both Kligman and the authors of that study on FAEEs demonstrated that hair gets greasy again, even after being shampooed/de-fatted. You've been arguing for several days now about just some minor, fringe issue. You haven't laid a finger on Kligman.
Bryan
S Foote.
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 66
Bryan said:
All i would say is, if you accept that sebum `can' penetrate the hair shaft, you must accept that this could easily happen in the follicle where the shaft is `soaked' in sebum.
This was the initial point i made.[/quote:2ca0f]
Yes, I acknowledge that small amounts of sebum diffuse into hairs, possibly even within the confines of the hair follicle, but I ask you again: SO WHAT? That's not particularly relevant to anything. What Kligman was discussing was HOW SEBUM GETS TRACKED ONTO HAIRS, and you attacked him by bringing up some entirely different issue. You appeared to be trying to find fault, just for the sake of finding fault.
Sebum clearly gets tracked onto hairs OUTSIDE of the hair follicle, because both Kligman and the authors of that study on FAEEs demonstrated that hair gets greasy again, even after being shampooed/de-fatted. You've been arguing for several days now about just some minor, fringe issue. You haven't laid a finger on Kligman.
Bryan[/quote:2ca0f]
OK Bryan, my issue was really with your attempt to ridicule my suggestion that sebum was penetrating the hair shaft within the follicle.
You now accept this is possible, so let that be an end to the matter.
S Foote.
hair_tomorrow
Senior Member
- Reaction score
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VeryUpset said:
Shampoo once Daily. Used to shampoo, rinse, and repeat - but hair got too dried out.
M & R: Dr. Lee's Regrowth Shampoo
T, W, F: Green Tea Shampoo w/ a dab of Nano (to which I recently added 2 crushed caffeine tabs)
S & S: Head & Shoulders w/ Aloe, to which I've also added 10 B6 tabs and 4 caffeine tabs.
Condition as needed w/ Revivogen
- Reaction score
- 997
I honestly think that frequency in hair washing does not particularly affect the production of sebum. It is important to know the different processes which have an influence in the sebum excretion rate (S.E.R.), where the sebum produced by the sebaceous gland is only one factor in a number. Sebum storage in the gland itself and flowing to the surface should also be taken into account.
The production of sebum by the sebaceous gland is clearly an androgen dependent process. The storage and outwards flow of sebum are physical processes where the reological characteristics of sebum can be crucial. It is important to take into account that sebum oxidizes easily and, eventually changes physically, chemically and biologically, so we should talk not only about quantity but quality of sebum.
Studies about sebum are scare and in some way complex. There is an open investigation field here. It would be interesting to know which type of sebum Klingman used in his investigations and its degree of oxidation. It is clear that sebum lies on the hair surface and it is not easy to remove it from there with soaps and detergents. Hair may not have an affinity for sebum but sebacous gland inyect into hair follicle and, certainly, when sebum reaches the hair shaft it is difficult to remove.
In my opinion a new theory about common baldness should be developed.
Sebum and hair loss are linked from the early times. Raymond Saboreaud´s studies at the beginning of the last century pointed out this possibility. Later, in the 50's and 60's new studies talked about the same subject. A lot of comments from people suffering from premature baldness are related to sebum problems.
Tom Haguerty's theory talk about scalp exercises. Moving actively the muscles of the scalp could be positive for a healthy hair. His ideas are interesting and have a link with sebum, more precisely with moving the sebum in the scalp avoiding its blocking. This technique could have an influence in the process of storage and diffusion of sebum and in a lower degree in its production .Scalp massage cold partly fulfil this process, especially when the scalp is moved, and at the same time eliminates or removes sebum from the surface of the hair.
According to my theory the most negative effects appear when the inward flow of sebum to the hair follicle is altered or blocked .This fact is connected with the possibility of renewing or eliminating the outward flow of sebum. If the outward flow is not interrupted there will not be any problem. The renewal of sebum in the outside is linked to the specific characteristics of hair, mainly its density, thickness, length and style. By the way, it is observed two zones more prone to begin the baldspots, the hair line or front line (recedeing line) and the crown area where lies the worhl of the hair.
Stephen Foote's theory about hydraulic forces in the scalp is also interesting but it should consider sebum flow as an extra component of the hydraulic pressure on the hair follicle area. Apart from that this theory does not explain the different effects caused in both sexes. It could also be considered the possibility that the hydraulic pressure is different in the areas of the scalp which are in contact with the pillow during sleep.
On the other hand the inflammation of the hair follicle in cases of alopecia is normal but nobody considered the possibility that the inflammation itself could interfere the flowing of stem cells from the bulging area to the dermal papilla, something similar to the problem of hardened sebum. The fact that hydraulic pressure could alter the flowing of new stem cells could have been suggested in Foote's theory.
Noonebutme theory about mites causing baldness would explain the most common hair loss pattern only in case that those organisms works only in certains areas, maybe this organism could travel better during the night in the areas where the head does not reach the pillow, ino rder to avoid a higher external preassure.
I thank Michael Barry for his supportive comments on my theory, though I would like him to be more specific in his discrepancies. His idea of connecting feeding habits to alopecia, observing migrant movements of Japanese people to western countries, is interesting but diet is supposed to affect hair all over the scalp and would not explain the typical hair loss pattern .I have also observed that Gypsies in Spain, who share the same diet with the rest of the population, do not suffer so much from alopecia. A similar investigation by Japanese doctor Masumi Inaba mentions overstimulation of the sebaceous gland by hormones and diet.
The point is that any theory should explain, among other things, the different incidence between both sexes and the typical hair loss pattern. Also any theory must admit the equality of all scalp hairs, independent of gender. My theory could be wrong but, are thousands of people wrong when they claim to have grease, irritation, inflammation, or itch when they find that they are losing their hair.
My theory is focused on the sebaceous gland and claims the need of androgens from the first capillar cycles, on the contrary the present theory say that D.H.T. should not appear before puberty. This is a crucial conundrum to solve. I have looked for information about this and have not found any definite proof. Intracrinology is a new area of study and hair investigation is an example. Evolution has developed capillar asynchrony (only in human beings) according to which each hair has its own biological mechanisms to rule its own cycle.
Investigations on differences in sebum (quantity as well as quality) between the areas of the scalp in which there is hair loss would help to check my theory. It would also help to check if the same differences appear in people not suffering from alopecia. A method like this could diagnose premature alopecia or could help to validate a new cosmetic treatment. By the way, there is lipids in the hair even in the innerst part, and it’s easy to suposse that most of these lipids come from the sebum. There is another piece of the hair loss puzzle.
I wish I had introduced a thought provoking theory which would shed some light on this problem. I think that prevention is better than cure and that free treatments like scalp exercise or maintain a certain hair length should be supported.
Thank you very much for your comments and attention. I don’t forget the useful information and knowledge from respected Bryan.
Armando
The production of sebum by the sebaceous gland is clearly an androgen dependent process. The storage and outwards flow of sebum are physical processes where the reological characteristics of sebum can be crucial. It is important to take into account that sebum oxidizes easily and, eventually changes physically, chemically and biologically, so we should talk not only about quantity but quality of sebum.
Studies about sebum are scare and in some way complex. There is an open investigation field here. It would be interesting to know which type of sebum Klingman used in his investigations and its degree of oxidation. It is clear that sebum lies on the hair surface and it is not easy to remove it from there with soaps and detergents. Hair may not have an affinity for sebum but sebacous gland inyect into hair follicle and, certainly, when sebum reaches the hair shaft it is difficult to remove.
In my opinion a new theory about common baldness should be developed.
Sebum and hair loss are linked from the early times. Raymond Saboreaud´s studies at the beginning of the last century pointed out this possibility. Later, in the 50's and 60's new studies talked about the same subject. A lot of comments from people suffering from premature baldness are related to sebum problems.
Tom Haguerty's theory talk about scalp exercises. Moving actively the muscles of the scalp could be positive for a healthy hair. His ideas are interesting and have a link with sebum, more precisely with moving the sebum in the scalp avoiding its blocking. This technique could have an influence in the process of storage and diffusion of sebum and in a lower degree in its production .Scalp massage cold partly fulfil this process, especially when the scalp is moved, and at the same time eliminates or removes sebum from the surface of the hair.
According to my theory the most negative effects appear when the inward flow of sebum to the hair follicle is altered or blocked .This fact is connected with the possibility of renewing or eliminating the outward flow of sebum. If the outward flow is not interrupted there will not be any problem. The renewal of sebum in the outside is linked to the specific characteristics of hair, mainly its density, thickness, length and style. By the way, it is observed two zones more prone to begin the baldspots, the hair line or front line (recedeing line) and the crown area where lies the worhl of the hair.
Stephen Foote's theory about hydraulic forces in the scalp is also interesting but it should consider sebum flow as an extra component of the hydraulic pressure on the hair follicle area. Apart from that this theory does not explain the different effects caused in both sexes. It could also be considered the possibility that the hydraulic pressure is different in the areas of the scalp which are in contact with the pillow during sleep.
On the other hand the inflammation of the hair follicle in cases of alopecia is normal but nobody considered the possibility that the inflammation itself could interfere the flowing of stem cells from the bulging area to the dermal papilla, something similar to the problem of hardened sebum. The fact that hydraulic pressure could alter the flowing of new stem cells could have been suggested in Foote's theory.
Noonebutme theory about mites causing baldness would explain the most common hair loss pattern only in case that those organisms works only in certains areas, maybe this organism could travel better during the night in the areas where the head does not reach the pillow, ino rder to avoid a higher external preassure.
I thank Michael Barry for his supportive comments on my theory, though I would like him to be more specific in his discrepancies. His idea of connecting feeding habits to alopecia, observing migrant movements of Japanese people to western countries, is interesting but diet is supposed to affect hair all over the scalp and would not explain the typical hair loss pattern .I have also observed that Gypsies in Spain, who share the same diet with the rest of the population, do not suffer so much from alopecia. A similar investigation by Japanese doctor Masumi Inaba mentions overstimulation of the sebaceous gland by hormones and diet.
The point is that any theory should explain, among other things, the different incidence between both sexes and the typical hair loss pattern. Also any theory must admit the equality of all scalp hairs, independent of gender. My theory could be wrong but, are thousands of people wrong when they claim to have grease, irritation, inflammation, or itch when they find that they are losing their hair.
My theory is focused on the sebaceous gland and claims the need of androgens from the first capillar cycles, on the contrary the present theory say that D.H.T. should not appear before puberty. This is a crucial conundrum to solve. I have looked for information about this and have not found any definite proof. Intracrinology is a new area of study and hair investigation is an example. Evolution has developed capillar asynchrony (only in human beings) according to which each hair has its own biological mechanisms to rule its own cycle.
Investigations on differences in sebum (quantity as well as quality) between the areas of the scalp in which there is hair loss would help to check my theory. It would also help to check if the same differences appear in people not suffering from alopecia. A method like this could diagnose premature alopecia or could help to validate a new cosmetic treatment. By the way, there is lipids in the hair even in the innerst part, and it’s easy to suposse that most of these lipids come from the sebum. There is another piece of the hair loss puzzle.
I wish I had introduced a thought provoking theory which would shed some light on this problem. I think that prevention is better than cure and that free treatments like scalp exercise or maintain a certain hair length should be supported.
Thank you very much for your comments and attention. I don’t forget the useful information and knowledge from respected Bryan.
Armando