How To Counter High Test And Estrogen?

[lukedorian]

Aromasin. It is probably your safest bet. I forget exactly how it works, but basically it binds to the aromatose enzyme, rendering it useless. There is no estrogen "rebound" since your body doesn't realize that the enzyme is useless. The enzyme is permanently disabled as opposed to other aromatose inhibitors where they only temporarily stop the enzyme and once the medicine is ceased...bam! big rebound especially since your body is producing new aromatose enzymes. The biggest problem is though how much to take. You do need some estrogen in your body. Talk to a doctor.

Woa bro Aromasin to counter E2 from dutasteride are you high

 

[lukedorian]

If you are thinking into using Aromatase inhibitor to counter E2 side effects from dutasteride, you need a very, very low dose, microdose as it´s called
Arimidex is your best bet
Disolving 1 mg in 8 ml of vodka using a very small vial, so that 1 ml has 0.125 mg of arimidex that is still too much for mist people even on testosterone replacement therapy, first i´d ask for to share lab work and see if E2 is high enough, sweet spot is between 25-35 Pg/ml

 

[tysono]

Turns out taking grapeseed/resveratrol makes me shed. Improves my EQ, but causes loss.. can’t win.

 

[tysono]

Bumping this again. Surely someone knows of a great working estrogen blocker/lowerer that can be combined with finasteride/dutasteride.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

yea, try arimidex


is dutasteride maintaining for you

 

[Alex Contee]

I’ve stopped taking DIM and I feel a lot better. I feel like it was increasing my estrogen. I’ve started taking 5000 IU of vitamin d, and also grapeseed with resveratrol. I feel like my hair is shedding a ton more.Also, I’ve been taking 1200mg of l citrulline for about a year. Anyone have any ideas on what to do or what could be causing the shed?

L citrulline has been shown in studies to increase DHT

 

[tysono]

yea, try arimidex


is dutasteride maintaining for you

Doctor won’t prescribe

Yeah it’s maintaining depending on what supps I take with it

 

[Sanchez1234]

Doctor won’t prescribe

Yeah it’s maintaining depending on what supps I take with it

What kind of supps?

 

[Derek Clapton]

Aromasin is your best bet by far. Frank1980's post was spot on.

 

[badhabiz]

Hi,

I’m currently taking 0.5mg of dutasteride daily and my blood test shows I have high testosterone and high estrogen. dutasteride is the only thing that has worked for me for the past 3 years. I’ve used DIM however it makes me shed more hair and become moody. Does anyone know of any other supplements that can help to lower estrogen? Thanks.

i would def go with the natural (and in my case effective) way: mucuna pruriens. this plant will lower your prl and cortisol level, use it 4/5 times a week and during the days off take some serotonin like 5htp supplement (mucuna raises dopa and lowers serotoin in the long run)
if you experience any sides pass to topical fina at mazzarella dosage and add zinc (50mg), vitamind D (5000/10000 iu daily), and magnesium.

 

[tysono]

i would def go with the natural (and in my case effective) way: mucuna pruriens. this plant will lower your prl and cortisol level, use it 4/5 times a week and during the days off take some serotonin like 5htp supplement (mucuna raises dopa and lowers serotoin in the long run)
if you experience any sides pass to topical fina at mazzarella dosage and add zinc (50mg), vitamind D (5000/10000 iu daily), and magnesium.

How come this got disliked? I’ve tried mucuna in the past, worked amazingly for like 5 days then just wore off and stopped working

 

[tysono]

What’s everyone’s thoughts on DIM? I’ve only ever taken 50mg, but might try taking 100mg this time..

 

[badhabiz]

How come this got disliked? I’ve tried mucuna in the past, worked amazingly for like 5 days then just wore off and stopped working

Problem with mucuna is, you have to cyclize it in order to keep it effective, and take serotonine to antagonize it. Real problem for all of us is that nobody will prescribe potent drugs like arimidex for something like that, and for a reason, there is no study for cases like estrgen spike caused by fina/duta to use it. And this medications have consequences too..its very risky
Estrogen, imho, must be lowered from many angles

 

[tysono]

Problem with mucuna is, you have to cyclize it in order to keep it effective, and take serotonine to antagonize it. Real problem for all of us is that nobody will prescribe potent drugs like arimidex for something like that, and for a reason, there is no study for cases like estrgen spike caused by fina/duta to use it. And this medications have consequences too..its very risky
Estrogen, imho, must be lowered from many angles

Would you be able to suggest any solutions or anything that could help lower estrogen?

 

[badhabiz]

Would you be able to suggest any solutions or anything that could help lower estrogen?

Since we said there's no medical literature that indicates we cant antagonize duta/fina with aromatase inhibitors, and even of we manage to do that, it would affect insulin resistance with consequences on the endothelial layer and so it would still lead to erect disf, imho we should stop pushing T and estrogen with sistemic dht blockers and start topic at dosage proved to be both safe and effective (0,005% finasteride, butilenic glicole/water/ alcohol), using minoxidil in separate lotion and different timing, then start supplement pincolinate zinc, magnesium and vitamin D3, but most of all or should focus on intermittent fasting in order to get the GnRH-induced LH response
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3106181
and on insulin resistance: there are several studies that indicate IR as the common cause behind sides effects that some of us have experienced, if you dont take care of it, no matter how much you manage to raise your T and control estrogen, you will continue to suffer the side effects of this hormonal displacement.
Because when we raised estrogen of this famous 15% we also affected insulin resistance. When insulin spikes, this lead to lower levels of SHBG, that binds excess estrogen and testo in the blood. If SHBG Is low, insulin increase testosterone, which is converted into even more estrogen.
We should supplement Inositol IP6 (vitamin B8)in order to be effective on insulin resistance and so balance estrogen(which are useful and necessary btw), along with IF, diet, zinc ,magnesium and vitamin D3
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21984197

 

[tysono]

Since we said there's no medical literature that indicates we cant antagonize duta/fina with aromatase inhibitors, and even of we manage to do that, it would affect insulin resistance with consequences on the endothelial layer and so it would still lead to erect disf, imho we should stop pushing T and estrogen with sistemic dht blockers and start topic at dosage proved to be both safe and effective (0,005% finasteride, butilenic glicole/water/ alcohol), using minoxidil in separate lotion and different timing, then start supplement pincolinate zinc, magnesium and vitamin D3, but most of all or should focus on intermittent fasting in order to get the GnRH-induced LH response
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3106181
and on insulin resistance: there are several studies that indicate IR as the common cause behind sides effects that some of us have experienced, if you dont take care of it, no matter how much you manage to raise your T and control estrogen, you will continue to suffer the side effects of this hormonal displacement.
Because when we raised estrogen of this famous 15% we also affected insulin resistance. When insulin spikes, this lead to lower levels of SHBG, that binds excess estrogen and testo in the blood. If SHBG Is low, insulin increase testosterone, which is converted into even more estrogen.
We should supplement Inositol IP6 (vitamin B8)in order to be effective on insulin resistance and so balance estrogen(which are useful and necessary btw), along with IF, diet, zinc ,magnesium and vitamin D3
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21984197

Do you know anything about DIM being effective at all?

 

[badhabiz]

Do you know anything about DIM being effective at all?

there isn't much on it to say its proved to be effective.
actually it may be risky for hair.

maybe worth a shot.

my two cents on zinc in high doses, with the proper fast, along with vitamin D in the same amount.

You may want to take a look of idrossimatairesinolo 7-hmr
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074486/

2019 study i've come across: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30912177

"By contrast, 5α-reductase inhibition or an androgen receptor antagonist had little effect in adolescents and attenuated the age difference by increasing stress-induced corticosterone release in adults."
"the results suggest that developmental shifts in the synthesis of testosterone and the regulation of gene expression are factors with respect to age differences in corticosterone release in response to stressors."

 

[tysono]

there isn't much on it to say its proved to be effective.
actually it may be risky for hair.

maybe worth a shot.

my two cents on zinc in high doses, with the proper fast, along with vitamin D in the same amount.

You may want to take a look of idrossimatairesinolo 7-hmr
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074486/

2019 study i've come across: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30912177

"By contrast, 5α-reductase inhibition or an androgen receptor antagonist had little effect in adolescents and attenuated the age difference by increasing stress-induced corticosterone release in adults."
"the results suggest that developmental shifts in the synthesis of testosterone and the regulation of gene expression are factors with respect to age differences in corticosterone release in response to stressors."

What would you consider a high dose of zinc?

 

[badhabiz]

What would you consider a high dose of zinc?

In the long run, something around 50mg. For 3/4 months and one off, 100mg. Just remember that more zinc depletes copper, so 2/4 mg of copper every 50mg of zinc daily would be a good idea (someone experienced hair loss after zinc supplements, its not zinc, its the copper that cant be absorbed because of high zinc and need to be supplemented)
Zinc is vital for hormones balance and in high doses is an estrogen inhibitor
(In most cases you save your hair with the topic solution)
But, in any case, there is nothing on literature that suggests we can overcome sides effects of dht blockers with aromatase inhibitors(IF you real suffer from it, thats not just an estrogens spike but there are several factors including insulin resistance to consider)
Neurotransmitters are a different way, a risky one, and there's nothing on it, but there are people that have successfully supplemented dopamine in order to lower cortisol and prl and get libido back.

 

[tysono]

In the long run, something around 50mg. For 3/4 months and one off, 100mg. Just remember that more zinc depletes copper, so 2/4 mg of copper every 50mg of zinc daily would be a good idea (someone experienced hair loss after zinc supplements, its not zinc, its the copper that cant be absorbed because of high zinc and need to be supplemented)
Zinc is vital for hormones balance and in high doses is an estrogen inhibitor
(In most cases you save your hair with the topic solution)
But, in any case, there is nothing on literature that suggests we can overcome sides effects of dht blockers with aromatase inhibitors(IF you real suffer from it, thats not just an estrogens spike but there are several factors including insulin resistance to consider)
Neurotransmitters are a different way, a risky one, and there's nothing on it, but there are people that have successfully supplemented dopamine in order to lower cortisol and prl and get libido back.

I started taking 22.5mg of active zinc about a week ago and it seems to make me shed a lot more. Could this dose be causing this?