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It should help the E3 work easier and faster. But maybe start at a lower dose of 100 or 150 mg and see how that goes first.
How To Cure Baldness By Altering Hormones While Retaining Masculinity
- Thread starter nWo Wolfpac
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It should help the E3 work easier and faster. But maybe start at a lower dose of 100 or 150 mg and see how that goes first.
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Possibly. You would have to take a lot of it I imagine. As far as I know there are no studies or anecdotal reports about getting regrowth from E3 alone.
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I think it's likely a combo since studies on eunuchs concluded that while castration ceased hair loss it didn't regrow hair.
E2 is a bit confounding as it suppresses hair growth in mice though. Granted everything that seems to magically grow hair in mice doesn't do sh*t for humans, otherwise we'd be able to rub McDonald's fries on our head for hair.
But while I think estrogen needs to be slightly elevated for hair, it doesn't require supraphysiologic levels by any means. There's a well known case study of an mtf patient who regrew hair averaging about 90pg/ml of e.
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Can you think of any reason why using e2 gel directly to scalp might be detrimental to hair growth? Maybe too high of e2 concentration at follicle? I'm back at it now and wondering if local application is the wrong approach. BTW, I'm aware of all the conflicting studies around e and human hair growth...
I think what’s happening to most of us doing our own research is we come across a viable option but it’s then crossed with something that doesn’t apply and muddled understanding.
the skin is complex and in realizing there’s an entire field of Dermatoendocrinology which is hormones made by and for the skin skin, we need to only look at not just human skin but make human skin. So similarities will be found such as telogen efflium and inflammation between men and women’s hair loss but really that just won’t help us and HRT as a viable option proves that.
The last few posts here are what makes most sense in that it’s not one approach that accounts for all scalp hair.
I assume there are x number of things that make you lose hair as you get older and within that number there is a smaller set of big variables or heavy hitters that if you have them (sensitivity to androgens, lack of aromatase, imbalance of e2), you will lose more versus smaller ones like vitamin d3 deficiency or zinc.
what I’ve understood is Estrogen receptor beta activation (full agonist) in vitro makes human male hair grow, lack of aromatase matches with pattern balding, increased androgen receptors are in men with hair loss, inflammation is common, vitamin deficiencies do not help.
I am starting a regiment in a week or two to tackle as much as I can from the above.
and possibly most important or at least as important as the target is actually getting there. People with results here are getting it largely through systemic changes. Better penetration folks
the skin is complex and in realizing there’s an entire field of Dermatoendocrinology which is hormones made by and for the skin skin, we need to only look at not just human skin but make human skin. So similarities will be found such as telogen efflium and inflammation between men and women’s hair loss but really that just won’t help us and HRT as a viable option proves that.
The last few posts here are what makes most sense in that it’s not one approach that accounts for all scalp hair.
I assume there are x number of things that make you lose hair as you get older and within that number there is a smaller set of big variables or heavy hitters that if you have them (sensitivity to androgens, lack of aromatase, imbalance of e2), you will lose more versus smaller ones like vitamin d3 deficiency or zinc.
what I’ve understood is Estrogen receptor beta activation (full agonist) in vitro makes human male hair grow, lack of aromatase matches with pattern balding, increased androgen receptors are in men with hair loss, inflammation is common, vitamin deficiencies do not help.
I am starting a regiment in a week or two to tackle as much as I can from the above.
and possibly most important or at least as important as the target is actually getting there. People with results here are getting it largely through systemic changes. Better penetration folks
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I don't think it would inhibit hair growth (again unless your a mouse), but also don't know whether or not that particular application site provides additional benefit. I think ultimately it would come down to how e2 is effective to begin with, whether it's merely a secondary result of the gonadotropin effects it has from going systemic or if it's actually stimulating the follicle itself perhaps by inducing additional aromatase or disrupting 5ar expression.
https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/27/6/677/2355194
Good paper. read. shows that hormones and skin are different from human to mouse (no sh*t) and from men to women. estrogen receptor beta activation helps, alpha does not. e2 goes for both but is more for beta and empirical evidence shows thats enough for hair. If thats not helping after substantial time on it at a good enough dose then theres another angle you should be working
Good paper. read. shows that hormones and skin are different from human to mouse (no sh*t) and from men to women. estrogen receptor beta activation helps, alpha does not. e2 goes for both but is more for beta and empirical evidence shows thats enough for hair. If thats not helping after substantial time on it at a good enough dose then theres another angle you should be working
I need ralox, if anyone has some im willing to pay a lot more for it than standard price. Everywhere i read says spironolactone should cause minor gyno, but mine is really bad. I wouldn't mind minor gyno but this is taking the piss lol I was taking 200mg for 5 months or so, i read it takes 12 months for gyno to become permanent, will it go away on it's own? I have been off it for just over a month.
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Even in regards to women, it seems contradictory from everyday empirical evidence that estrogen would induce catagen. If anything it seems the abrupt decline of estrogen tends to do so, notably that about 40 to 50% of women experience hair loss 3-4 months after child birth. And then also obviously in menopause. A variable is the simultaneous drops is progesterone however, so perhaps it has a protective effect in the presence of estrogen. In particular in pregnancy progesterone sharply declines first, which signals the body to go into labor.
I don’t think the differences between women and men in terms of follicles is as small as you presented. It shows in the number of Androgenetic Alopecia in men vs women and especially in the way that we bald.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15525980
there’s a good chance estradiol does something more than ERb that helps and ginestien isn’t enough or perhaps another angle. But I think it’s pretty concrete that e2, in skin/scalp not body, is pretty much necessary
and the evidence isn’t anecdotal. Same researches recognize in HRT that hair grows back
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15525980
there’s a good chance estradiol does something more than ERb that helps and ginestien isn’t enough or perhaps another angle. But I think it’s pretty concrete that e2, in skin/scalp not body, is pretty much necessary
and the evidence isn’t anecdotal. Same researches recognize in HRT that hair grows back
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Something this paper cites that I've also seen before is that glucocorticoids induce a similar catagen response as e2. I'm curious if that's also a difference between animal follicles and human scalp hair, as potent topical corticosteroids are a mainstay of inflammatory hair loss disorders and I'm not sure if dermatologists would give them out willy nilly if they induced an immediate telogen effluvian like response in their patients.
They've been largely case studies and empirical evidence around observing bald men take HRT and regrow a substantial amount of hair. More or less what we've seen here just observed by a research/medical person where they're doing what works but still don't get why which unfortunately for medicine, isn't the first time they've done that (i.e. more or less all neuropharmacology).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5367483/
I think we all see hair and dont think of it as too much but in reality a hair is its own lil organ in an env (skin) that is quite different even in its own organism (some areas of skin are very different than others in many observable and microscopic ways).
End of the day we don't know specifics. We are presented a possible path to something that may have as many answers that it does causes and in Androgenetic Alopecia thats seems to be a good bit.
skin disruption and cell damage is typical with glucocorticoids so that makes sense for dermatologists hesitation but yeah.... skin and things like hair are super weird all through mammals.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5367483/
I think we all see hair and dont think of it as too much but in reality a hair is its own lil organ in an env (skin) that is quite different even in its own organism (some areas of skin are very different than others in many observable and microscopic ways).
End of the day we don't know specifics. We are presented a possible path to something that may have as many answers that it does causes and in Androgenetic Alopecia thats seems to be a good bit.
skin disruption and cell damage is typical with glucocorticoids so that makes sense for dermatologists hesitation but yeah.... skin and things like hair are super weird all through mammals.
Cause studies prove phenomenon that are recognized by a meme bee of scientific community and that it’s worth documenting.
The results and observations of the case study seem to correlate with a few other studies and some things done here and elsewhere. Call it here say with some evidence who cares about the title.
Like stated previously, we don’t have answer just a way that has been shown to work between people on here and the overall scientific community that hormones are at the root of this (pun, nailed it) and that in more than one of all case e2 helps hair. may not be the solution for most or even some, but it’s been shown to help more than most other options.
Abstract of said study you just said doesn’t involve estrogen:
Abstract
Evidence of androgenetic alopecia, or male pattern baldness, can be distressing for transgender women. Here we present the case of a transgender woman with scalp hair regrowth after ∼6 months on oral estradiol and spironolactone therapy achieving testosterone levels within normal female range.
The results and observations of the case study seem to correlate with a few other studies and some things done here and elsewhere. Call it here say with some evidence who cares about the title.
Like stated previously, we don’t have answer just a way that has been shown to work between people on here and the overall scientific community that hormones are at the root of this (pun, nailed it) and that in more than one of all case e2 helps hair. may not be the solution for most or even some, but it’s been shown to help more than most other options.
Abstract of said study you just said doesn’t involve estrogen:
Abstract
Evidence of androgenetic alopecia, or male pattern baldness, can be distressing for transgender women. Here we present the case of a transgender woman with scalp hair regrowth after ∼6 months on oral estradiol and spironolactone therapy achieving testosterone levels within normal female range.
whatintheworld
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It isn't worth risking your health to achieve perfect hair. Using the big 3 + getting a transplant will get you to good enough territory where at least you won't be bald. Most people only perceive and characterize people in a binary fashion as bald or not anyway.
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@nWo Wolfpac ; How frequent do you take break? And how frequent do you use letrozole/raloxifene? I stopped taking spironolactone for the last one month. I don't see any significant improvement in my gyno. I am considering to extend my break. Next time I will start with bicalutamide.
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I take breaks a lot. I usually don't go more than a month and a half without taking a week off or two. I've only taken letro/ralox twice.
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I am not taking spironolactone since last one month. Would it hurt my hair? Shall I start taking bicalutamide now? My gyno is still a big problem for me.
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Honestly your probably wasting your time. Bicalutamide will raise estrogen and give you gyno as well. If you cant take any gyno than just quit now. Really this whole thread is a waste of time. Almost every normal guy is going to quit at the first sign of gyno and I don't blame them. There's a reason most guys who stick with this type of regimen were trannies from the start.