How would the top list of DHT inhibitors look like?

[Yuber]

How would you rate the DHT inhibitors?

If you were gonna rate the DHT inhibitors a litte further than a top 3 based upon your own experience and what you’ve read, how would your list be like if the factors were proven/success, and side effects?


Internal
1 Propecia?
2 dutasteride?
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

Topical
1 RU?
2
3
4
5
6
7
8

Shampoo
1 nizoral?
2
3
4
5

 

[Guest]

dutasteride would be above Propecia.

 

[stampede]

I don't think there are any other internal ones, not ones that are available anyways.

And yeah, by any measure, dutasteride is far more powerful and (it would seem) effective than finasteride. In fact, it's that powerful that it scares me a bit :freaked:

Jayman, did you not say that one dutasteride capsule every week was the equivalent of 5mg finasteride every day? If that's true, it's effectively 35x stronger than propecia.

Hardcore...!! :shock:

 

[Guest]

Jayman, did you not say that one dutasteride capsule every week was the equivalent of 5mg finasteride every day? If that's true, it's effectively 35x stronger than propecia.

One dutasteride capsule every 5 days is the equivalent of 5 mg finasteride every day.

 

[Pondle]

And yeah, by any measure, dutasteride is far more powerful and (it would seem) effective than finasteride. In fact, it's that powerful that it scares me a bit :freaked:

Why does it scare you? In real world practice the effects of the two drugs are very similar.

There does not appear to be any clinically significant difference between the adverse event profiles of dutasteride and finasteride. Although weak evidence suggests a difference in the onset of clinical benefit, the available non-comparative trial data do not confirm this finding.
Comparison of Clinical Trials With Finasteride and Dutasteride
J. Curtis Nickel, MD
Rev Urol. 2004; 6(Suppl 9): S31–S39.

 

[Bryan]

How would you rate the DHT inhibitors?

What do you mean by "DHT inhibitor"?

 

[Bryan]

Jayman, did you not say that one dutasteride capsule every week was the equivalent of 5mg finasteride every day? If that's true, it's effectively 35x stronger than propecia.

How did you arrive at that "35x" figure?

 

[stampede]

Jayman, did you not say that one dutasteride capsule every week was the equivalent of 5mg finasteride every day? If that's true, it's effectively 35x stronger than propecia.

How did you arrive at that "35x" figure?

5mg finasteride equivalent x 7 days = 35x stronger than 1mg finasteride (i.e., Propecia)

Obviously, if it's only 5 days, then dutasteride is 25x stronger than Propecia.

 

[stampede]

And yeah, by any measure, dutasteride is far more powerful and (it would seem) effective than finasteride. In fact, it's that powerful that it scares me a bit :freaked:

Why does it scare you? In real world practice the effects of the two drugs are very similar.

There does not appear to be any clinically significant difference between the adverse event profiles of dutasteride and finasteride. Although weak evidence suggests a difference in the onset of clinical benefit, the available non-comparative trial data do not confirm this finding.
Comparison of Clinical Trials With Finasteride and Dutasteride
J. Curtis Nickel, MD
Rev Urol. 2004; 6(Suppl 9): S31–S39.

Because it reduces DHT by much more than finasteride.

I'm already getting a puffy chest and love handles off finasteride nothing that plenty hard work in the gym and some yohimburn won't sort out, but I really don't wanna be growing boobs :lol:

 

[Bryan]

5mg finasteride equivalent x 7 days = 35x stronger than 1mg finasteride (i.e., Propecia)

That's convoluted reasoning, because you're assuming that 5 mg/day of finasteride is 5x as powerful as 1 mg/day of finasteride!

 

[Pondle]

I'm already getting a puffy chest and love handles off finasteride nothing that plenty hard work in the gym and some yohimburn won't sort out, but I really don't wanna be growing boobs :lol:

I don't think finasteride (or dutasteride) would make you gain weight. This side effect was never recorded in trials. Lifestyle factors probably determine your weight changes. You will have somewhat higher levels of testosterone, which could be helpful in building muscle, but it remains within the normal range, so then again perhaps not!

 

[stampede]

I'm already getting a puffy chest and love handles off finasteride nothing that plenty hard work in the gym and some yohimburn won't sort out, but I really don't wanna be growing boobs :lol:

I don't think finasteride (or dutasteride) would make you gain weight. This side effect was never recorded in trials. Lifestyle factors probably determine your weight changes. You will have somewhat higher levels of testosterone, which could be helpful in building muscle, but it remains within the normal range, so then again perhaps not!

I'm absolutely certain that finasteride has made my body deposit fat around my chest and hips. I'm very active so it's not a lifestyle change.

You're right that I'll have more testosterone, but the more testosterone there is, the more is available to get turned into estrogen.

I've not got a pair of DD's or anything, but the difference is certainly there.

 

[tomas99]

No, with using 5AR inhibitors, you will have more free T. This free T can not convert into DHT so it converts through Aromatase enzyme to Estrogens. You have more estrogens = more estrogens are responsible for developing tits and you easily gain weight. Estrogens are responsible for this, thats why women so easily gain weight.

Exactly as stampede says. Chest and hips, thats are those places. Perhaps if you could see your back (a*s), you would see more fat too

 

[Pondle]

No, with using 5AR inhibitors, you will have more free T. This free T can not convert into DHT so it converts through Aromatase enzyme to Estrogens. You have more estrogens = more estrogens are responsible for developing tits and you easily gain weight. Estrogens are responsible for this, thats why women so easily gain weight.

Exactly as stampede says. Chest and hips, thats are those places. Perhaps if you could see your back (a*s), you would see more fat too

I know about aromatase dude - that's why I take GSE. 8) I think it's important to remember that, while dutasteride elevates your testosterone and estrogen levels, both remain within the normal range. I'm also thinking if estrogen made people fat, women would all be fat, which they clearly are not - and neither are all men thin! In the UK, male levels of obesity are exactly the same as female levels, about 22%. It's all about diet and lifestyle.

 

[tomas99]

I have never said that all women must fat - but they become fat more easily. Did you notice that girls around 20-25 are on some diet, exercise and dont eat too much? Otherwise, they would start being fat and they are. I believe rather to science in these things You can have Estrogens in normal levels, but when there is less DHT and even T, Estrogens will have much more power.

It is about balance. Women have enough Progesterone, which protects them from harmful estrogens. When they are getting older, progesterone is on decline.

We are talking about special body parties, like tits. Tits are not developed from just being fat. Btw. beer is very estrogenic so those that have fat tits and hips have this from too much estrogen, which is everywhere. Those that have fat all body simply eat too much.

 

[Pondle]

I have never said that all women must fat - but they become fat more easily. Did you notice that girls around 20-25 are on some diet, exercise and dont eat too much? Otherwise, they would start being fat and they are. I believe rather to science in these things

Women are under intense social pressure to be thin, or even very thin (size zero models, etc). Men aren't under the same pressure - since almost no women are attracted to a stick-thin man. Anyone becomes fat if they lead a sedentary lifestyle and/or eat too much; health statistics show that the male and female propensity to be obese is almost exactly the same, in the UK at least - despite the fact that women do less exercise than men, on average.

We are talking about special body parties, like tits. Tits are not developed from just being fat. Btw. beer is very estrogenic so those that have fat tits and hips have this from too much estrogen, which is everywhere. Those that have fat all body simply eat too much.

Beer is an appetite stimulant, so drinkers tend to eat more and run the risk of getting fat. But beer in and of itself is apparently not fattening, at least if you drink in moderation. A story on the BBC cited a study of several thousand drinkers in the Czech Republic, and found that they put on almost no more weight around the abdomen than non-drinkers.

 

[tomas99]

Beer is an appetite stimulant, so drinkers tend to eat more and run the risk of getting fat.

Yes it is very popular myth from TV News.

Well to be honest many UK guys are coming into Czech republic because of cheap beer and cheap b**ch*s, so I must say that in general UK citizens are really fat all of them.

Beer is one of the most estrogenic food. How do you explain that some guys have slim legs, slim arms but huge hips and also womens tits?

It is FACT that during aging, men T is on decline and thus Estrogens are raising. Thats why young boys never have women tits or hips. Just search something on Estrogen dominance in Google and you will find what I mean.

A story on the BBC cited a study of several thousand drinkers in the Czech Republic, and found that they put on almost no more weight around the abdomen than non-drinkers.

I live there so I know better how beer drinkers look like. They have beer's body (thin legs, arms and bit*h tits) and beer's hair (bald heads). I know many of them as beer is national drink here like tea for Asians and none of them is eating too much.

Again, if weight gain is from bad lifestyle, how do you explain that on Propecia some guys develop gyno? It is because, in 6 month after starting drug, they start eating more or what? As I said estrogen dominance is causing this and if you ask doctors why men gain some weight and develop tits on Propecia, they will tell you the same.

Aromatase of each person can vary so not everyone will suffer from Estrogen dominance. Btw. too much Estrogen and to much of Estrogen's power is causing lowering T, that's why so many guys have sexual problems while on Finasteride..

 

[Pondle]

Beer is an appetite stimulant, so drinkers tend to eat more and run the risk of getting fat.

Yes it is very popular myth from TV News.

Some scientific studies have suggested a connection between alcohol and increased appetite. But there's also a lifestyle issue. Drinking is often accompanied by snacking. In Britain a Saturday or Friday night out drinking often ends with a takeaway. This is part of popular culture here.

Again, if weight gain is from bad lifestyle, how do you explain that on Propecia some guys develop gyno? It is because, in 6 month after starting drug, they start eating more or what? As I said estrogen dominance is causing this and if you ask doctors why men gain some weight and develop tits on Propecia, they will tell you the same.

You're completely misunderstanding me. I have no argument with the clinically noted fact that in a small minority of men, 5ARIs cause gyno. As I understand it, fat guys are more at risk, already having elevated levels of estrogen (note: I'm not implying that this estrogen causes the initial fatness). I'm sceptical that 5ARIs cause a general increase in weight because they elevate estrogen. You have argued that women are more likely to be overweight, because they have more estrogen. But this is not really true. As I said, the propensity to obesity in the UK is about the same in men and women, though there has been some fluctuation. In England, 43% of men and 33% of women are overweight, and an additional 22% of men and 23% of women are obese, according to Department of Health's Health Survey for England 2003. Excess weight and obesity increase with age, with about 27% of men and 31% of women aged 16-24 classified as overweight or obese, rising to about 79% of men and 71% of women classified as overweight or obese by age 55-64.

 

[stampede]

My overall weight has increased only slightly, but the distribution of fat on my body has definitely changed.

There's no other changes to blame this on.

 

[tomas99]

My overall weight has increased only slightly, but the distribution of fat on my body has definitely changed.

There's no other changes to blame this on.

This is what I mean. On finasteride or dutasteride, you will more likely to store fat on certain places like women does. I dont talk about gaining fat in general, but I mean that women are more predicted to store fat in certain parts of body. And this is because of Estrogens. DHT is much more stronger than any of Estrogens. If you lower DHT, certain receptors will be more free and Estrogen will bind to it. Will gain more power. Your chance to gain weight is very similar and perpaps it is the same as guy without dutasteride has. But you have much more bigger chance that you will gain this weight into certain body parties, especially hips and tits. Once there is chance to store some fat, you will store it at this places at first (which does not pay for guy without 5AR inhibitor) and you will store it much more easily.