I Am Actually Regrowing My Hair + Hairline Without Min Or finasteride (mechanical Stimulation)

[Gregor59]

I have been very oily skin last 4 5 months and i think its connected dht or testosterone. Cuz my hair go thinnig and thining.. What i can? I have enough oil to make an omelet on my face. It's in the same condition an hour after washing my face.

I started scalp massage 2 weeks ago and i did notice shedding is reduced

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

Been quite awhile since an update, not much has changed hair wise since my last update. Pretty thick hair but the hairline leaves a lot to be desired plus my crown has a thin spot around the size of a coin that's visible under certain light. I'll upload some pictures when I can be bothered. My right temple has made little progress but some, it seems it's constantly shedding the hairs that regrow on my temples but it does grow back thicker a little each time but it's painfully slow. Hairline moves forward around 0.5cm every 6 months. My left temple on the other hand is much more solid and hair is been progressing much better, the only difference is that I message the left meaning massages could have helped my hairline move forward. Can't say definitively though.

I'm currently around 1.5 years on finasteride now which means I've basically exhausted it's regrowth potential. I got a Dutasteride prescription almost a year ago and I have some Avodart still sitting around so I'm wanting to trial out Avodart before my prescription expires and I can't get it anymore. I'll be taking it once weekly with finasteride on the off days which doesn't entirely make a lot of sense at first but I'm replicating a study plus another study also showed that people respond to dutasteride and finasteride differently depending on their genetics so it's not necessarily redundant but probably not ideal for efficiency.

I was initially a little scared of dutasteride since it has more impacts elsewhere such as the theoretical impact on the synthesis of neurosteroids like allopregnanolone along with effects on cholesterol levels etc. I was even given a warning pamphlet when I first got it which I never got with finasteride which also freaked me out a bit. Perhaps I dreamed it but I remember reading some concerning side effects and drug interactions on there but recently I read through it and there was nothing of concern. Also when I first got it prescribed I had two different doctors consult me about taking it and they said it should be fine, it's safe and low risk as it's only a BPH drug. I also spent the last couple of nights looking into dutasteride studies and it doesn't seem as scary as I initially thought. In theory it has some concerning sides in comparison to finasteride but I don't think a lot of them translate so cleanly into reality when looking at all the studies. The side effect profile is fairly close to finasteride and the fact I'm dosing at only once a week initially means I should have a lower incidence for any negative effects. Logically it seems like it's worth the risk and if I have any negative experiences with it I will simply just ween my way back to finasteride.

In terms of gains I don't have a lot to go off, the only studies I could find were from people starting dutasteride outright or non-responders to finasteride that later went onto dutasteride. I can't actually find a single case of someone who responded to finasteride and decided to then step up to dutasteride for increased gains. Realistically I should expect a decent boost to hair growth but I'm essentially testing new waters here since I have no data to go off to predict the likelihood of better results. Also the fact I'm microneedling and using mechanical stimulation puts me in an unprecedented spot, I think it's realistic to expect some additional regrowth but nothing major but if I'm lucky I could have a moderate to major increase to density and hairline. My hairline has lots of longer thin white vellus hairs so I feel it's only the matter of an additional little push before they start growing in abundance.

I'm certainly going to miss 5mg finasteride quartered only, the pills are so small and easy to take I can down them without water no trouble. The Avodart capsules are massive and I struggle swallowing pills so I'll definitely have to practice and get used to it.

I'll probably start Avodart sometime later this week, I'll update how I go with it.

 

[Haironnu]

How often do you take finasteride? 1 mg every other day?

 

[Mustang]

Go topical dutasteride
I have been on it for 3 months now. Completely stopped my hair loss and zero side effects as compared with oral finasteride which was not as effective.
Best part is I only apply 2ml once a month. Half life of the drug is so long that you don't need daily usage.

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

How often do you take finasteride? 1 mg every other day?

1.25mg daily, no sides aside from decreased ejaculatory volume.

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

Go topical dutasteride
I have been on it for 3 months now. Completely stopped my hair loss and zero side effects as compared with oral finasteride which was not as effective.
Best part is I only apply 2ml once a month. Half life of the drug is so long that you don't need daily usage.

Well I'm not aiming to stop hairloss rather to regrow even more and specifically my hairline. Dutasteride is too expensive for me to mess around with topical application currently. I think trialing out oral low dose dutasteride is the most sensible thing to try currently. If I end up having any side effects on it I could probably use the rest of it topically so I don't waste it.

The only side effect I'm worried about is the potential impact on neurosteroids and depression but I think that shouldn't be an issue at all on low dose dutasteride especially low dose dutasteride taken only once a week.

I've been struggling with brainfog, lethargy and depression for the last 5+ years and it's something I've only more recently overcome and got out of, I feel more like me again and I'd hate for that to be taken away.

 

[CrownBalding]

Well I'm not aiming to stop hairloss rather to regrow even more and specifically my hairline. Dutasteride is too expensive for me to mess around with topical application currently. I think trialing out oral low dose dutasteride is the most sensible thing to try currently. If I end up having any side effects on it I could probably use the rest of it topically so I don't waste it.

The only side effect I'm worried about is the potential impact on neurosteroids and depression but I think that shouldn't be an issue at all on low dose dutasteride especially low dose dutasteride taken only once a week.

I've been struggling with brainfog, lethargy and depression for the last 5+ years and it's something I've only more recently overcome and got out of, I feel more like me again and I'd hate for that to be taken away.

Glad everything is working out for you. This guy is probably the most underrated user on here and we should wish nothing but the best for this kid

 

[Gokusan]

Same question..how do you make topical duta?

 

[Mustang]

I buy it from my Dr in Belgium who is a hair transplant surgeon
He only sells it to patients. I agree it is tricky to get but with a prescription there is a pharmacy in Italy that will sell it to you

 

[Mustang]

Okay this is interesting.

You had side effects on oral fina and none on topical duta?

How do you make your topical duta? And 2ml/month, how does that translate in daily or weekly applications?

This deserves its own thread really, haven't heard much about topical duta.

I will start my own thread at 6 months with pictures, results, bloodwork and a proper review
I don't want to jump into conclusion too early. However, it's well over 50 of us with complete success on it on the spanish froum.
Just google "mesoterapia dutasteride Dr Pelo casos"

 

[Mustang]

Well I'm not aiming to stop hairloss rather to regrow even more and specifically my hairline. Dutasteride is too expensive for me to mess around with topical application currently. I think trialing out oral low dose dutasteride is the most sensible thing to try currently. If I end up having any side effects on it I could probably use the rest of it topically so I don't waste it.

The only side effect I'm worried about is the potential impact on neurosteroids and depression but I think that shouldn't be an issue at all on low dose dutasteride especially low dose dutasteride taken only once a week.

I've been struggling with brainfog, lethargy and depression for the last 5+ years and it's something I've only more recently overcome and got out of, I feel more like me again and I'd hate for that to be taken away.

No anti androgen will regrow hair on your hairline. Not finasteride nor dutasteride, neither orally or topically. That battle you can't win. Only through vasodilation (laser therapy or oral/topical minoxidil) will you be able to regrow fine hairs on it. In my 17 years of 10 FUE surgeries, medication and research I have never seen it happen. You can only thicken up what is there significantly through mesotherapy with dutasteride and other vasdilators.

Topical dutasteride is 50 euros a month, if you apply it every 2 weeks the bottle will last you 6 months or more. However. I recommend using it for 2 moths only has the molecule could degrade quickly and lose his potency. My last dose was 3 weeks ago and still, zero hair loss.

I would never touch oral dutasteride, much less if you have been struggling with brainfog (I was as well) and depression. It will crush your DHT levels to zero and has much as some idiots say you don't need it you do, the trick is to have a low DHT for normal cognitive and sexual function. Topical Dutasteride decreased by serum DHT by just 40%, not 95% as when taken orally thus I have no side effects.

The 5 alpha reductase enzye happens in the prostate AND in hair follicles. You only want it stopping the convertion to DHT on the second one and leave the rest alone.

Plus, oral dutasteride and finasteride can lead to Polymorphism, partially messing up your androgen receptors which is also known as post finasteride syndrome. It's funny that people say is crap or untrue when big pharma companies are working on medication to reverse it (already in phase 2 trials.)

I don't have it, thankfully, but that does not mean it can't happen

My advice, get off oral crap. It's 2020, there are more efficient and safe ways to fight hair loss. PM if you want, I'll be happy to help

 

[5minutesbeforemiracle]

@MyThinningConfidence, I do wonder a little why you try to push the envelope and experiment more and more when you have already had a solid track record of recovery (and in fact it's ongoning). Especially your claim of 0.5cm every 6 months, which you say is slow but is in fact very fast imo. If I were in your position I would just sit tight and continue as I've been doing, careful you don't end up like Icarus my man.

Also I think you have mentioned in an earlier post that it's not just androgenic alopecia that's caused your hairloss but a bunch of other stuff. Do you think that you reversing your hairloss is not actually reversing the androgenic alopecia, but just the other causes of the hairloss? It'd probably be just semantics to you, but I think it's important for our 'community research' as to whether dermarolling and massage are effective for reversing AA.

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

@MyThinningConfidence, I do wonder a little why you try to push the envelope and experiment more and more when you have already had a solid track record of recovery (and in fact it's ongoning). Especially your claim of 0.5cm every 6 months, which you say is slow but is in fact very fast imo. If I were in your position I would just sit tight and continue as I've been doing, careful you don't end up like Icarus my man.

Also I think you have mentioned in an earlier post that it's not just androgenic alopecia that's caused your hairloss but a bunch of other stuff. Do you think that you reversing your hairloss is not actually reversing the androgenic alopecia, but just the other causes of the hairloss? It'd probably be just semantics to you, but I think it's important for our 'community research' as to whether dermarolling and massage are effective for reversing AA.

Well I think the main issue is that I started too late as I'm recovering from a NW4.5 with poor density. Currently my density is pretty thick and good but my hairline is still around a NW3 and I don't know how much more I can get out of my current regime unless I up my massage time which gets time consuming and I become lazy. I actually got my Avodart almost a year ago now so technically I've actually already sat tight. That was my exact mentality and finasteride was working so I delayed trialing out dutasteride for close to a year but now I'm around 1.5 years on finasteride and I've exhausted most of it's regrowth potential based on studies. I was hoping to see more regrowth benefit from finasteride alone but I honestly wasn't expecting it. I got what I expected realistically which was maintenance of my hair and some slight-moderate regrowth. (although it's hard to attribute how much finasteride actually regrew with other aspects of my regime.) I actually thought about that exact scenario in my head haha, I'm really hoping I don't fly too close to the sun but I should be safe with trialing out low dose dutasteride. I think the point where I start trialing out estradiol and spironolactone is when I come crushing down back to Earth.

To be honest I'm not expecting anything major with dutasteride unless I hit the genetic lottery and respond to it insanely well but theoretically it should give me a little boost at minimum. In reality I'm just being hopeful and it's probably not worth the risk of sides but I've already got it so it's worth trialing out to know. Plus with other treatments in my regime it could work synergistically.

I think some of my progress could definitely be attributed to other factors like zinc pyrithione clearing up my seborrheic dermatitis which I assume contributed to my overall thinning. But yes I'd say microneedling and massage definitely both work but neither are going to grow you a full head of luxurious hair. Just be realistic with your expectations of regrowth.

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

No anti androgen will regrow hair on your hairline. Not finasteride nor dutasteride, neither orally or topically. That battle you can't win. Only through vasodilation (laser therapy or oral/topical minoxidil) will you be able to regrow fine hairs on it. In my 17 years of 10 FUE surgeries, medication and research I have never seen it happen. You can only thicken up what is there significantly through mesotherapy with dutasteride and other vasdilators.

Topical dutasteride is 50 euros a month, if you apply it every 2 weeks the bottle will last you 6 months or more. However. I recommend using it for 2 moths only has the molecule could degrade quickly and lose his potency. My last dose was 3 weeks ago and still, zero hair loss.

I would never touch oral dutasteride, much less if you have been struggling with brainfog (I was as well) and depression. It will crush your DHT levels to zero and has much as some idiots say you don't need it you do, the trick is to have a low DHT for normal cognitive and sexual function. Topical Dutasteride decreased by serum DHT by just 40%, not 95% as when taken orally thus I have no side effects.

The 5 alpha reductase enzye happens in the prostate AND in hair follicles. You only want it stopping the convertion to DHT on the second one and leave the rest alone.

Plus, oral dutasteride and finasteride can lead to Polymorphism, partially messing up your androgen receptors which is also known as post finasteride syndrome. It's funny that people say is crap or untrue when big pharma companies are working on medication to reverse it (already in phase 2 trials.)

I don't have it, thankfully, but that does not mean it can't happen

My advice, get off oral crap. It's 2020, there are more efficient and safe ways to fight hair loss. PM if you want, I'll be happy to help

Well actually it's not so much low DHT that's the issue rather it's the actual process of blocking 5AR, in the process of lowering your DHT you need to inhibit 5AR and the problem with that is 5AR is actually responsible for more things than just DHT production. Which is been my main concern with starting dutasteride as finasteride mainly only blocks 5AR2. I am somewhat concerned with the impact on neurosteroids with starting dutasteride but theoretically I should be fine as a young healthy male on low dose. I also think it's very unlikely that dutasteride will regrow my hairline without some miracle, at the least I should expect some increased regrowth though. I think the only thing that will fix my hairline at this point is probably a hair transplant which I definitely have the density for, just not the money. Or if I transition to a girl which has a whole range of health issues and other implications that come with it.

I am sort of curious with trialing out dutasteride but curiosity killed the cat, theoretically I should be safe just trialing it out. I think the real question is if the risk is worth the reward in which case probably not considering I'm unlikely to have anything major. I could be pleasantly surprised but that's just a gamble.

edit. I actually just looked at the topical dutasteride study, I am really surprised they've actually tested it in a study already. Let me know how you go with topical dutasteride. Definitely seems like a viable and safer way to trial out dutasteride on my hairline. Unlike a lot of other people on here though I do like other parts of oral dutasteride though like some of the feminizing characteristics. The reduction in body hair and acne on finasteride has been great so far and the effect of dutasteride is even further reaching which appeals to me on a personal level.

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

I've been reading studies for hours and I've found some seriously concerning and terrifying ones that make my heart and body sink in fear, that is until I read they are self-reports that have been sampled from internet forums. It's almost funny because I just started convincing myself that finasteride has caused me all these side effects and then I kept thinking about all these past events and consolidating the idea that finasteride is evil and I've made a terrible mistake by taking it. It was an incredibly recent paper too so I thought it was new information that just came out and they recently discovered something but no, just simple self-reports online which is one of the worst sample bases you can have. I was genuinely scared and filled with horror until I calmed myself down and thought about it rationally and thought wait... who does their sample base actually consist of? And to my relief... self reports from internet forums 90% of the sample didn't even have a specified age ffs.

Looking at some more papers it seems dutasteride/finasteride do have definite effects on neurosteroids which result in various psychological changes like depression, decreased risk/reward response and promotes a more apathetic state. There's actually some ideas to use 5AR inhibitors for certain psychotic illnesses and even gambling addiction interestingly. All these studies were done on mice though which makes me a bit more skeptical. All the studies I've looked at on human testing though have not been so drastic and don't show a major difference between the control group. So I think in theory dutasteride or even finasteride can have negative health implications but they are negligible in most healthy individuals. People with severe hormonal issues are likely the ones to get severe side effects but these people comprise of a very low percentage of users. I'm open to the idea that 5AR is seriously damaging and harmful but I haven't found any quality and definitive studies saying so. Most of the harmful effects work in theory but don't seem to necessarily translate to reality with humans using the drug.

I'd appreciate if anyone could prove otherwise though, my health and well being are important so I don't want to f*** my body up. But based on my current knowledge it doesn't seem seriously risky. I should just be mindful of how I tolerate it. It also looks like non-steroidal 5ARs are in the works with theoretically far less sides so that could be interesting but I'd just be sitting around waiting then with no real time expectation.

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

Alright here are a bunch of pictures of my temples, all of them are my left temple except for the side profile one which is my slightly more recessed right temple.

 

[sonictemples]

Can we get mods to change the title to (added finasteride) or something so people can have a better view of your results.

 

[Haironnu]

No anti androgen will regrow hair on your hairline. Not finasteride nor dutasteride, neither orally or topically. That battle you can't win. Only through vasodilation (laser therapy or oral/topical minoxidil) will you be able to regrow fine hairs on it. In my 17 years of 10 FUE surgeries, medication and research I have never seen it happen. You can only thicken up what is there significantly through mesotherapy with dutasteride and other vasdilators.

Topical dutasteride is 50 euros a month, if you apply it every 2 weeks the bottle will last you 6 months or more. However. I recommend using it for 2 moths only has the molecule could degrade quickly and lose his potency. My last dose was 3 weeks ago and still, zero hair loss.

I would never touch oral dutasteride, much less if you have been struggling with brainfog (I was as well) and depression. It will crush your DHT levels to zero and has much as some idiots say you don't need it you do, the trick is to have a low DHT for normal cognitive and sexual function. Topical Dutasteride decreased by serum DHT by just 40%, not 95% as when taken orally thus I have no side effects.

The 5 alpha reductase enzye happens in the prostate AND in hair follicles. You only want it stopping the convertion to DHT on the second one and leave the rest alone.

Plus, oral dutasteride and finasteride can lead to Polymorphism, partially messing up your androgen receptors which is also known as post finasteride syndrome. It's funny that people say is crap or untrue when big pharma companies are working on medication to reverse it (already in phase 2 trials.)

I don't have it, thankfully, but that does not mean it can't happen

My advice, get off oral crap. It's 2020, there are more efficient and safe ways to fight hair loss. PM if you want, I'll be happy to help

First you say topical duta is more effective than oral finasteride, and now you say topical duta only decreases 40% dht, while oral finasteride decreases about 70% of it, so how exactly topical duta is more effective than oral finasteride?

Also are you away that some of the topical duta still goes systemically?

 

[Haironnu]

@MyThinningConfidence any reason to why you're taking 1.25 mg of finasteride instead of just 1 mg? I heard that going more barely have any benefits if at all

 

[MyThinningConfidence]

@MyThinningConfidence any reason to why you're taking 1.25 mg of finasteride instead of just 1 mg? I heard that going more barely have any benefits if at all

It's the only way I can take it, I get cheap 5mg pills and quarter them into 1.25mg. Only ends up costing me $6-8 dollars a month that way.