Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016

[Beowulf]

I have been using spironolactone which stopped my shed for most part and i see new hairs but they are not really cosmetically viable to make a difference--you think Brotzu thicken those up? If so would that not cause shedding? i never heard Beps mention shedding did you?

It probably will cause shedding followed by regrowth. As we saw the lotion works by increasing micro-circulation so your hair follicles will have more materials to grow with. Shedding is just a necessary step, you need to get rid of the old sickly hair follicles to bring in the new ones. At the very least minoxidil will thicken your vellus.

The thing is that minoxidil most likely does result in regrowth, but this is only because there is a point where the hair follicle can no longer grow long enough to leave the scalp, but is still present. So since minoxidil will increase the growth period it will grow out of the scalp. But that's really easy to mistake for regrowth caused by an oversupply of cells moving to nearby deficient zones.

 

[hairblues]

It probably will cause shedding followed by regrowth. As we saw the lotion works by increasing micro-circulation so your hair follicles will have more materials to grow with. Shedding is just a necessary step, you need to get rid of the old sickly hair follicles to bring in the new ones. At the very least minoxidil will thicken your vellus.

The thing is that minoxidil most likely does result in regrowth, but this is only because there is a point where the hair follicle can no longer grow long enough to leave the scalp, but is still present. So since minoxidil will increase the growth period it will grow out of the scalp. But that's really easy to mistake for regrowth caused by an oversupply of cells moving to nearby deficient zones.

I just started minoxidil 5% 1x a day almost 3 weeks ago--no shedding yet--when does that normally start?
Sorry this is off topic..

But also if you already shed from minoxidil already using minoxidil--then start to use Brotzu--you would shed again?

 

[Beowulf]

But also if you already shed from minoxidil already using minoxidil--then start to use Brotzu--you would shed again?

Yeah, in fact my dermatologist said that you'll get a shed every time you start a treatment.

I think it usually takes between one to three months before shedding starts. Then it's light another three months before regrowth starts, that's why the sticky says that you need to wait a full year before deciding whether or not a treatment is working. The biggest problem people have is quitting in the early months because they don't think it's working.

 

[Beowulf]

"Mr. Toyoshima: For applications of our technology, both mesenchymal stem cells and epithelial stem cells, which are applicable to human clinical applications, are needed. With respect to the development of the technology to cultivate mesenchymal stem cells, that is papilla cells, being applicable to human clinical trials, we are already in progress now for development. On the other hand, as for the technology to cultivate epithelial stem cells of follicles, it still remains a significant challenge globally. We are currently in the middle of research and development for this. Based on our recent research results, we finally have some prospects and expect this issue to be resolved in the near future."

Does anyone know of any treatment that can either create or increase the replication of mesenchymal stem cells? From what I understand that's what Shiseido is doing, but that's some weird dermal papilla sheath cup stuff that no one but them understands. The point being that if Brotzu is correct about his lotion making more epithelial, all you need to do is add, or increase the proliferation of mesenchymal cells (which I think can be found in fat tissue?) and you'd be able to regrow all your hair in the exact same way that Tsuji wants to do it.

 

[hairblues]

"Mr. Toyoshima: For applications of our technology, both mesenchymal stem cells and epithelial stem cells, which are applicable to human clinical applications, are needed. With respect to the development of the technology to cultivate mesenchymal stem cells, that is papilla cells, being applicable to human clinical trials, we are already in progress now for development. On the other hand, as for the technology to cultivate epithelial stem cells of follicles, it still remains a significant challenge globally. We are currently in the middle of research and development for this. Based on our recent research results, we finally have some prospects and expect this issue to be resolved in the near future."

Does anyone know of any treatment that can either create or increase the replication of mesenchymal stem cells? From what I understand that's what Shiseido is doing, but that's some weird dermal papilla sheath cup stuff that no one but them understands. The point being that if Brotzu is correct about his lotion making more epithelial, all you need to do is add, or increase the proliferation of mesenchymal cells (which I think can be found in fat tissue?) and you'd be able to regrow all your hair in the exact same way that Tsuji wants to do it.

Jesus Christmas--Don't tease us...For reals??? i don't understand the whole first paragraph but you got me at 'regrow hair in the exact same way that Tsui wants.."

 

[Beowulf]

Jesus Christmas--Don't tease us...For reals??? i don't understand the whole first paragraph but you got me at 'regrow hair in the exact same way that Tsui wants.."

Don't go crazy here, but essentially what Toyoshima said was that the current problem is that they don't know how to cultivate epithelial stem cells that are usable in humans. Brotzu said that his lotion increased the proliferation of epithelial stem cells which is hopefully why it is regrowing people's hair. If hair primordiums really are just mesenchymal and epithelial stem cells injected back into the scalp, then we might be able to just make the mesenchymal and epithelial stem cells come back on their own using Brotzu's lotion with something else.

 

[Beowulf]

The missing link is how we can get mesenchymal stem cells to proliferate, which I'm pretty sure can already be done.

 

[Beowulf]

We need a molecular biologist to confirm whether or not mesenchymal and epithelial stem cell proliferation would be enough, but those seem to be the basis for Tsuji's technique.

http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/4/e1500887.full

 

[Beowulf]

Well it looks like you could use bone marrow to culture mesenchymal cells, freeze them and then just keep injecting yourself with them. And apparently epithelial cells turn into mesenchymal cells.

https://peerj.com/preprints/148.pdf

 

[Beowulf]

According to this article it looks like a combination of SM04554 and the Brotzu lotion should give you your hair back:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3115771/

It also turns out that dermal sheath cup cells actually do exist, and can even be turned into neurons. Anyway, that also means that a combination of RCH-01 and Brotzu should also work, and that RCH-01 might actually make hair immune to DHT.

 

[tzt]

I have been using spironolactone which stopped my shed for most part and i see new hairs but they are not really cosmetically viable to make a difference--you think Brotzu thicken those up? If so would that not cause shedding? i never heard Beps mention shedding did you?

no @beps63 never mention that brotzu cause shedding. and i remember in the old brotzu's interview he claim that the lotion won't cause shedding.

may be it work differently than other product.

 

[zaman]

Look what was published just a few days ago

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27833804

 

[Beowulf]

Look what was published just a few days ago

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27833804

Sounds like it behaves like dermal papilla cells. Should basically confirm that RCH-01 works, but I imagine this will get in the works soon.

 

[That Guy]

Look what was published just a few days ago

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27833804

This makes me harder than Chinese algebra

 

[Grasshüpfer]

Sounds like it behaves like dermal papilla cells. Should basically confirm that RCH-01 works, but I imagine this will get in the works soon.

Can you elaborate?


Also this is the thread for everything now I guess.

 

[Beowulf]

Can you elaborate?


Also this is the thread for everything now I guess.

Sure!

Dermal papilla cells are just a particular type of mesenchymal cell. Hair follicles are created when the mesenchymal and epithelial manipulate one another in particular ways (because epithelial cells can turn into mesenchymal cells). The mesenchymal dermal papilla cells releases hepatocyte growth factor, Wnt, bone morphogenetic protein and fibroloblast growth fact in order to grow the hair follicle. It turns out that if you just inject hepatocyte growth factor it seems that it causes the epithelial cells to propagate and grow a new follicle.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3115771/

 

[Beowulf]

Essentially the Dermal papilla cells tell the epithelial cells to turn into a hair follicle.

I'm going to do some studying tomorrow and start a whole new thread about it.

 

[Grasshüpfer]

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm too much. But I think you are oversimplifying a bit.

You only need eggs, milk and flour to make a pancake.

But actually you also need an exact heat, a pan, salt, sugar, butter, timing and you need to flip the pancake at some point. (Also maple syrup, but let's stay on topic )

It took Tsuji and his team years to bake mesenchymal and epithelial cells together in a way that grew a hair. So there is quite a bit of magic they are not telling us about.

I think epithelial+ mesenchymal = hair is a bit too simple.


Then again, we have quite a few treatments around the corner and I'm confident that some of them will work:

+ Follicla/Cotsarelis just updated their patents and website
+ Shiseido is finally testing rch-01
+ Histogen has found partners for clinicals
+ Brotzu will come soon.
+ Tsuji only needs to culture epithelial cells.
+ Samumed also seems to be on track.

I do think the study on hHgf cells is interesting though.
What I'm personally looking for is information about culturing those damn epithelial cells. How is stem cell culturing coming along? What are similar cells that we manage to culture? How is research of induced pluripotent cells coming along?

 

[Grasshüpfer]

@Beowulf
Didn't want to bash you. I'm sure it will make more sense to me once you put it into a thread.

 

[growssj3]

A lot of infos. Thank you guys for translating and sharing the info.

The only thing I do not like is that we have no clue when this sh*t comes out. I doubt that brotzu will tell something about Androgenetic Alopecia in his presentation. And its so much pain, because he could make us the lotion already :-/

So waiting one more year when this treatment is already around makes me sick