Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016

[WangMQ]

If everything proves true and legit (especially the patent description) I think this is looking optimistic. Don't worry too much of the patent page being "too good to be true". Brotzu might have played with words and avoided quantifiable methods but I think he wouldn't do so without being very confident. And honestly what else are we asking for more than solid maintenance without sides? It's also good in covering multiple angles (anti androgen + growth stimulant)

However, I tend to hold back a little bit about the possibility of it getting released in time...like you all know already, too many variables can go wrong, even if this time they try to circumvent multiple-phase clinical trial.

BTW @David_MPN do you still have the reference about half Asian being able to produce S-equol?

 

[papa pinrel]

so finnaly it can give sides like finasteride? it´s seens like lotion block 5ar as the dc said, it hurst for people like who are extremly sensitive to anti androgens...

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

I feel like no one on this forum takes the time to read anything. They just come here everyday asking us to summarize what can easily be found by just taking five minutes to go over what has already been written.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

If everything proves true and legit (especially the patent description) I think this is looking optimistic. Don't worry too much of the patent page being "too good to be true". Brotzu might have played with words and avoided quantifiable methods but I think he wouldn't do so without being very confident. And honestly what else are we asking for more than solid maintenance without sides? It's also good in covering multiple angles (anti androgen + growth stimulant)

However, I tend to hold back a little bit about the possibility of it getting released in time...like you all know already, too many variables can go wrong, even if this time they try to circumvent multiple-phase clinical trial.

BTW @David_MPN do you still have the reference about half Asian being able to produce S-equol?

From here:
http://www.naturalequol.com/about.html

"I do not know the reason why Doctor Brotzu is saying that.

We cannot make now any promise, before having finished the study.


We will keep you posted on the next steps


Best regards "

this is their official reply regarding the 5 yrs....

Fidia can't be legally liable if one of the users only gets 4 years of regrowth.
What they're going to do is measure regrowth after six (six?) months in their study and that's what they're going to advertise, and nothing else.
"Users average 22% regrowth after 6 months !!! 94% of users experience regrowth !!!"
They have to be careful with their words.

Note also that Brotzu's claim never made much sense. You can't say something like that without precision measurements, it was clearly an estimate, and we also know that there are different response rates to treatments.

so finnaly it can give sides like finasteride? it´s seens like lotion block 5ar as the dc said, it hurst for people like who are extremly sensitive to anti androgens...

We still don't know if the equol goes systemic, and regardless, we know that half the population of Asia doesn't have ED lol.

If anything, this lotion could actually invigorate the penis, as both carnitine and PGE1 are off-label treatments for erectile dysfunction.

Carnitine:
http://www.life-enhancement.com/mag...itines-better-than-testosterone-for-impotence
Carnitines—Better Than
Testosterone for Impotence
Propionyl and acetyl carnitine derivatives beat
sex hormone at its own game and enhance v****’s benefits
By Will Block

PGE1:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostaglandin_E1
Prostaglandin E1 (PGE1) is a prostaglandin.
The synthetic variant is known pharmaceutically as alprostadil.[1] It is a drug used in the continuous treatment of erectile dysfunction[2] and has vasodilatory properties.

Looks like I'm mistaken, PGE1 is not an off-label treatment for erectile dysfunction, it's a primary treatment.

 

[abcdefg]

Yeah we also dont know if equol has a strong enough effect on DHT at safe doses to actually stop or do anything for male pattern baldness. A pretty important question before we sing praises of equol. The theories of things that stop DHT on a list could wrap around the world. Black tea, saw palmetto, caffeine, beta sis, fatty acids, peppermint tea.... male pattern baldness is still here and everyone still on propecia.

 

[WangMQ]

From here:
http://www.naturalequol.com/about.html



Fidia can't be legally liable if one of the users only gets 4 years of regrowth.
What they're going to do is measure regrowth after six (six?) months in their study and that's what they're going to advertise, and nothing else.
"Users average 22% regrowth after 6 months !!! 94% of users experience regrowth !!!"
They have to be careful with their words.

Note also that Brotzu's claim never made much sense. You can't say something like that without precision measurements, it was clearly an estimate, and we also know that there are different response rates to treatments.



We still don't know if the equol goes systemic, and regardless, we know that half the population of Asia doesn't have ED lol.

If anything, this lotion could actually invigorate the penis, as both carnitine and PGE1 are off-label treatments for erectile dysfunction.

Carnitine:
http://www.life-enhancement.com/mag...itines-better-than-testosterone-for-impotence
Carnitines—Better Than
Testosterone for Impotence
Propionyl and acetyl carnitine derivatives beat
sex hormone at its own game and enhance v****’s benefits
By Will Block

PGE1:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostaglandin_E1
Prostaglandin E1 (PGE1) is a prostaglandin.
The synthetic variant is known pharmaceutically as alprostadil.[1] It is a drug used in the continuous treatment of erectile dysfunction[2] and has vasodilatory properties.

Looks like I'm mistaken, PGE1 is not an off-label treatment for erectile dysfunction, it's a primary treatment.

I read the link David. If I understand it right, half of Asian are able to transform soy isoflavone to equol instead of synthesize it on their own. Also, being able to produce equol does not mean to produce it at high enough level to affect hair loss. Therefore we still don't know if equol going systemic is really that safe.

That being said, this can't be worse than finasteride. It doesn't affect your overall hormone levels (T and E). Doesn't mess with upstream enzyme like 5AR either. I think the worst we can get from systemic equol is sex related problems. No mentals. No cognitives. (And that's the WORST I''d expect)

Also, I think drug delivery is always a key. If we have a drug delivery system that effectively prevent systemic absorption we can have our triumph already!

 

[abcdefg]

Dam near. Again only one way in all of history has been proven to prevent male pattern baldness - castration. If thats not strong evidence how critical androgens are in male pattern baldness I dont what else to say. When you find another way to prevent or stop male pattern baldness let me know. I have never heard of or seen it.

"DHT isn't the only culprit of Androgenetic Alopecia."

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Dam near. Again only one way in all of history has been proven to prevent male pattern baldness - castration. If thats not strong evidence how critical androgens are in male pattern baldness I dont what else to say. When you find another way to prevent or stop male pattern baldness let me know. I have never heard of or seen it.

"DHT isn't the only culprit of Androgenetic Alopecia."

Removing androgens slows down male pattern baldness, but lots of people with androgens don't get male pattern baldness.

So it's not the only culprit, and we don't know how direct a culprit they are.

 

[Dench57]

What about minoxidil? And then there's Kerastem therapy, even though it's been available for only a few years and the results they've posted are somewhat lukewarm we've been having reports from the people who done from the forums that their shedding has stopped dramatically and they've actually are getting some thickening.

Minoxidil/Kerastem are growth stimulants, buying time against the gradual miniaturisation caused by androgens. For some people they're powerful enough to override this damage for a time. Kinda like building on quicksand. Something with insane growth factors like Histogen, in theory, will be enough to overpower the damage caused by androgens and "swim against the tide" for longer than any other growth stimulant. But you'll still need to get those injections every 1 or 2 or 3 years, to keep you "topped up".

Removing androgens slows down male pattern baldness, but lots of people with androgens don't get male pattern baldness.

So it's not the only culprit, and we don't know how direct a culprit they are.

male pattern baldness isn't determined by androgens themselves, it's your genetic susceptibility to androgens. We know pretty well from all scientific literature since Hamilton in the 50s that androgen/AR is the start of the chain of events that causes hair to thin, in those with genetic susceptibility. Men with 5AR2 deficiency don't go bald. Physical castration stops balding. And I'm quite certain if you didn't give a f*** about your health, you could have a pretty much 100% response rate to cure yourself by chemically castrating yourself with cyproterone acetate/spironolactone/flutamide etc.

 

[abcdefg]

Where are they going to get the s-equol from who produces it? Has anyone bought or tried equol supplements already and tested their hormones to see if DHT levels did drop significantly?
There are old threads on equol as a topical to stop DHT. Could very well work, but supply is always a major issue on these underground movements. The prices never come down because it never gets bought in mass enough. Finding s-equol is not all that easy, and taking a supplement of it might not even absorb or work anyway. Figuring out these kinds of questions is pretty critical. Maybe this lotion will solve them
Hopefully this lotion is priced decently

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

male pattern baldness isn't determined by androgens themselves, it's your genetic susceptibility to androgens. We know pretty well from all scientific literature since Hamilton in the 50s that androgen/AR is the start of the chain of events that causes hair to thin, in those with genetic susceptibility. Men with 5AR2 deficiency don't go bald. Physical castration stops balding. And I'm quite certain if you didn't give a f*** about your health, you could have a pretty much 100% response rate to cure yourself by chemically castrating yourself with cyproterone acetate/spironolactone/flutamide etc.

You can also say that obesity is determined by calories, and that if someone eats zero calories (analogous to castration) they will not be obese. That is technically true, but it's not useful as a treatment/analysis. We also know that people will be skinny (regardless of calories eaten) if they have low insulin, low cortisol, or fast metabolism, where we can't possibly know the analogs for male pattern baldness as there is little research going on there.

It's very possible to have two people with similar lifestyles and bones, where the person eating 1,500 calories a day has more body fat than the person eating 2,000 calories a day. We now know for certain that insulin, cortisol, likely other hormones as well play a role. And that's a more useful way to think about things as we can't tell people to eat <~ 1,000 calories a day. If they need to eat 1,000 calories a day to stay thin, or if they have to cut DHT by 90% or more to keep their hair, then there's a problem likely caused by other issues.

What you nebulously call "androgen sensitivity" is not informative, not actionable. We could say for food that some people are "calorie-sensitive" but that would also be uninformative and unactionable. Rather their issue is likely high insulin and/or high cortisol.

 

[Giiizmo]

You can also say that obesity is determined by calories, and that if someone eats zero calories (analogous to castration) they will not be obese. That is technically true, but it's not useful as a treatment/analysis. We also know that people will be skinny (regardless of calories eaten) if they have low insulin, low cortisol, or fast metabolism, where we can't possibly know the analogs for male pattern baldness as there is little research going on there.

Controlling calories is important and part of the equation but we're nowhere near understanding genetic susceptibilities to obesity nor the (potentially huge) impact of the gut micro-flora. Shows just how little we know about our bodies in general.

 

[Blackber]

Let's say this product is theoretically released next year (2017) how would us located in the US go about obtaining it?

I was impressed with Brotzu's answers in his recent interview on the Italian forum. He seemed to have a legitimate scientific answer for all their questions.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

Let's say this product is theoretically released next year (2017) how would us located in the US go about obtaining it?

I was impressed with Brotzu's answers in his recent interview on the Italian forum. He seemed to have a legitimate scientific answer for all their questions.

Fidia has a branch in the US that handles distribution. http://www.fidiapharma.us/en/

 

[Xaser94]

Its weird they arent disclosing the length of the trial.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

If it's going to be seen as a cosmetic, I wonder if they're just waiting for the first sign of success/terminal hairs to go into production.

With a real, rigorous trial they can demonstrate that they are distinct from the dozens of sham products on the market.

 

[abcdefg]

Yes just by having and finishing a trial they are miles ahead of a million other products. Some products like revivogen talked about having a trial many years ago, and just never did it.
I hope this ends up working well especially when it comes to stopping DHT through the equol. I just want a real alternative to finasteride and lowering DHT that does not alter the neurosteroids or elevate T levels. Also I hopes its priced cheap, but I guess nothing in history of male pattern baldness has been anything but overpriced.
Almost every product in existence for male pattern baldness is ridiculously over priced for what it is except minoxidil, and maybe propecia now that its generic. More then 30 a month on 1 product for male pattern baldness that doesnt stop it is overpriced IMO.

 

[whatevr]

@abcdefg What Norwood are you? You're here for 11 years, not on finasteride, and still have hair?

 

[abcdefg]

@abcdefg What Norwood are you? You're here for 11 years, not on finasteride, and still have hair?

Beats me maybe a 2. Pretty slow and gradual or maybe ive just learned over the years Im starting to care less and less about male pattern baldness considering the limited risky options we have. Propecia just seems too risky to me long term. Everyone is different how they view taking a drug for cosmetic conditions
I have tried numerous things like revivogen, topical spironolactone, supplement crap. None of it did anything. I am on minoxidil right now so I will probably stay with that forever since its cheap and definitely works pretty safely

 

[whatevr]

Beats me maybe a 2. Pretty slow and gradual or maybe ive just learned over the years Im starting to care less and less. Propecia just seems too risky to me long term. Everyone is different.

I see, just seemed unusual is all. I'd count you very lucky.
Here I am at 24 and finasteride can't even stop my hair loss. Pretty sure I'd be fully bald within 5 years if I took nothing.
I will need to throw a lot more at it to stop it I guess.

So, you know, from my perspective you're definitely lucky when you can afford to toy around with it for such a long time.