Kintor has started Phase 3 trial in China for Pyrilutamide

[badnewsbearer]

I haven't used Pyrilutamide in 60 hours. This morning I had my first handjob in 3 days, and the semen was literally water.

I try to pull hairs out of my head and I still can't get any. How long does this sh*t last in the body??? I am desperate. I can’t believe, I was super good during the first 5 weeks, I can’t understand

funny thing is we don't even know if the watery sperm is a side of this drug. people just think it is based off of the fact that finasteride acts on the prostate due to heavy 5AR expression there however pyrilutamid does not mess with DHT in that sense at all. it is quite unlikely that the small systemic exposure was able to have the same effect as a full finasteride dose which again only does this because it was designed to act on the prostate due to very strong DHT expression there. also why would this not have occur the 5 weeks prior. makes no sense as it should act faster than an inhibitor.

they do talk about the metabolites in some report I think. KX-982 acts as a very very weak anti androgen. maybe if it has such a long half life it can accumulate but I think this is something that they would have seen in the studies and required to report. how would anybody know what is too much and what not, there is no reference on what these numbers even mean. the metabolites cant be such a big problem otherwise they weren't confident enough to go for US approval for a cosmetic condition

 

[badnewsbearer]

I found the theory of magnets very interesting, may I ask how you came to that conclusion?

By the same token, using 0.25% there would never be systemic absorption because capillary regeneration is less, which would mean that there are DHT receptors without Pyrilutamide, correct?

I think someone talked about this on the forum. I do not think that 0.25% could avoid systemic absorption because the delivery mechanism is so highly imperfect. a lot of the drug you apply topically on the head will not be delivered to the hair follicle but will just slide by into the deeper layers of the skin where it will go into the bloodstream. if you had a perfect delivery ensuring that all the pyrilutaimde molecules where to be delivered to the androgen receptors int eh scalp (whose numbers constantly change anyway) then there would be no systemic accumulation. this would be true if we could have a perfect delivery system for finasteride also. however finasteride still goes systemic and sadly does affect serum DHT in very small quantities. but anyway using a lower dose mitigates sides of course maybe not for finasteride but it could make a lot of sense for pyrilutamid since it does not have the same dose effect curve

 

[Modill]

funny thing is we don't even know if the watery sperm is a side of this drug. people just think it is based off of the fact that finasteride acts on the prostate due to heavy 5AR expression there however pyrilutamid does not mess with DHT in that sense at all. it is quite unlikely that the small systemic exposure was able to have the same effect as a full finasteride dose which again only does this because it was designed to act on the prostate due to very strong DHT expression there. also why would this not have occur the 5 weeks prior. makes no sense as it should act faster than an inhibitor.

they do talk about the metabolites in some report I think. KX-982 acts as a very very weak anti androgen. maybe if it has such a long half life it can accumulate but I think this is something that they would have seen in the studies and required to report. how would anybody know what is too much and what not, there is no reference on what these numbers even mean. the metabolites cant be such a big problem otherwise they weren't confident enough to go for US approval for a cosmetic condition

Hello @badnewsbearer ,

Thank you for your contributions.

I am just telling my experience. Please note that as I said in my previous comment, I also used CB at 7.5% once a day.

Why didn't I get any side effects for the first 5 weeks? If you notice, @Min0 also got side effects after 7 or 8 weeks, and I have read on reddit posts the same thing, people getting side effects after a long time.

What I think is that while Pyri is accumulating in the blood, there are still DHT receptors that are free and bind to DHT and libido is maintained. But there comes a time when 100% of the receptors are blocked by Pyri and libido suddenly disappears. That's what I think may have happened.

Another side effect I noticed when my libido disappeared, and it happened exactly the same as with finasteride, is that after peeing, I would drop a few drops, as if I was not well closed. After I stopped using Pyri and CB that disappeared after 2 days.

You say that the watery semen doesn't make sense because there is still DHT. And I think it does make sense because even though there is DHT, it's useless because it's not binding to any receptors, so it's really like there's no DHT at all, just like when you remove it with finasteride.

best

 

[Joxy]

So, is this gonna be the next failure?

 

[badnewsbearer]

Hello @badnewsbearer ,

Thank you for your contributions.

I am just telling my experience. Please note that as I said in my previous comment, I also used CB at 7.5% once a day.

Why didn't I get any side effects for the first 5 weeks? If you notice, @Min0 also got side effects after 7 or 8 weeks, and I have read on reddit posts the same thing, people getting side effects after a long time.

What I think is that while Pyri is accumulating in the blood, there are still DHT receptors that are free and bind to DHT and libido is maintained. But there comes a time when 100% of the receptors are blocked by Pyri and libido suddenly disappears. That's what I think may have happened.

Another side effect I noticed when my libido disappeared, and it happened exactly the same ab with finasteride, is that after peeing, I would drop a few drops, as if I was not well closed. After I stopped using Pyri and CB that disappeared after 2 days.

You say that the watery semen doesn't make sense because there is still DHT. And I think it does make sense because even though there is DHT, it's useless because it's not binding to any receptors, so it's really like there's no DHT at all, just like when you remove it with finasteride.

best

it makes no sense still. first of all not nearly 100% of receptors are blocked by pyrilutamide. it is far less potent than proxilutamide which itself cannot achieve this and it is taken by mouth and probably has a 100 fold higher concentration in the blood probably even more. the fact that pyrilutamide cannot do anything close to that is the absence of major side effects in the phase 2 study which no matter how bad of a mythology it might have had still a phase 2 study. if this has some major anti androgenic properties it would have been picked up and the drug would be dropped. an anti androgen is much harder to justify that finasteride as that only gets rid of a testosterone product which only occurs in certain tissues. on the other hand androgens in general occur almost everywhere and thus finasteride acts in the target tissue with DHT being a paracrine hormone and not systemically in all organs where an endocrine signal like testosterone acts.

in the prostate expression of the 5AR gene is particularly high which is why finasteride is so useful there. the prostate of course has many androgen receptors but in a target tissue of finasteride like that I highly doubt that a tiny dose of pyrilutamide would be able to achieve the equivalent of a 90% drop in DHT or even close to that. but maybe, we do not know after the study results have been published.


on reddit you see all kinds of stuff, people who get sides after 3 days and 3 months, it makes no sense for them to be so far spread apart. in general it makes no sense to see so many sexual side effects when in the study there where none. either people are all noceboing themselves because of deep engrained finasteride memories or the studies have been manipulated. some people try to explain it with the argument that the sample size is too low for sexual sides to show up but thats retarded because on reddit the percentage is much much higher than 1/50. a phase 3 study with a larger sample size will provide a better idea

CB has definitely no sexual side effects and it is used on children even (lower dose but also in the phase where skin is more penetrable justifying the lower dose) for acne

 

[Modill]

it makes no sense still. first of all not nearly 100% of receptors are blocked by pyrilutamide. it is far less potent than proxilutamide which itself cannot achieve this and it is taken by mouth and probably has a 100 fold higher concentration in the blood probably even more. the fact that pyrilutamide cannot do anything close to that is the absence of major side effects in the phase 2 study which no matter how bad of a mythology it might have had still a phase 2 study. if this has some major anti androgenic properties it would have been picked up and the drug would be dropped. an anti androgen is much harder to justify that finasteride as that only gets rid of a testosterone product which only occurs in certain tissues. on the other hand androgens in general occur almost everywhere and thus finasteride acts in the target tissue with DHT being a paracrine hormone and not systemically in all organs where an endocrine signal like testosterone acts.

in the prostate expression of the 5AR gene is particularly high which is why finasteride is so useful there. the prostate of course has many androgen receptors but in a target tissue of finasteride like that I highly doubt that a tiny dose of pyrilutamide would be able to achieve the equivalent of a 90% drop in DHT or even close to that. but maybe, we do not know after the study results have been published.


on reddit you see all kinds of stuff, people who get sides after 3 days and 3 months, it makes no sense for them to be so far spread apart. in general it makes no sense to see so many sexual side effects when in the study there where none. either people are all noceboing themselves because of deep engrained finasteride memories or the studies have been manipulated. some people try to explain it with the argument that the sample size is too low for sexual sides to show up but thats retarded because on reddit the percentage is much much higher than 1/50. a phase 3 study with a larger sample size will provide a better idea

CB has definitely no sexual side effects and it is used on children even (lower dose but also in the phase where skin is more penetrable justifying the lower dose) for acne

Well, I honestly don't know what to tell you. I think we have to abandon the assumption that we are all suggested and the secondary effects are caused by the mind. I think we have to give a little credibility to users who tell their experience.

In the Spanish forum Recuperarelpelo, which is the most powerful in Spanish, some users who are trying pyri had to stop due to side effects, and they tolerate CB at low doses, at high doses it also gives them side effects.

I am also talking to the team at fueclinic (also known as anagenica) who use CB for their patients and they tell me that their patients keep their hair at 2.5%, but that at 7.5% it is very strong and gives them side effects.

From your perspective, neither pyri nor CB gives side effects, but I was perfect and now I'm terrible, and when you lose morning erections it's not psychological.

Where there's smoke, there's fire

 

[kiwi666]

Well, I honestly don't know what to tell you. I think we have to abandon the assumption that we are all suggested and the secondary effects are caused by the mind. I think we have to give a little credibility to users who tell their experience.

Absolutely! You’re so right about this.

I can’t stand c***ts telling me my watery semen is in my mind. May the gods strip them of all their hair.

In the Spanish forum Recuperarelpelo, which is the most powerful in Spanish, some users who are trying pyri had to stop due to side effects, and they tolerate CB at low doses, at high doses it also gives them side effects.

I am also talking to the team at fueclinic (also known as anagenica) who use CB for their patients and they tell me that their patients keep their hair at 2.5%, but that at 7.5% it is very strong and gives them side effects.

From your perspective, neither pyri nor CB gives side effects, but I was perfect and now I'm terrible, and when you lose morning erections it's not psychological.

Again, you’re absolutely right. f*** any whinging maggots who try to over think this and apply their experience and quite frankly bro science logic to what you’re actually experiencing.

These people don’t deserve hair.

Where there's smoke, there's fire

 

[badnewsbearer]

Well, I honestly don't know what to tell you. I think we have to abandon the assumption that we are all suggested and the secondary effects are caused by the mind. I think we have to give a little credibility to users who tell their experience.

In the Spanish forum Recuperarelpelo, which is the most powerful in Spanish, some users who are trying pyri had to stop due to side effects, and they tolerate CB at low doses, at high doses it also gives them side effects.

I am also talking to the team at fueclinic (also known as anagenica) who use CB for their patients and they tell me that their patients keep their hair at 2.5%, but that at 7.5% it is very strong and gives them side effects.

From your perspective, neither pyri nor CB gives side effects, but I was perfect and now I'm terrible, and when you lose morning erections it's not psychological.

Where there's smoke, there's fire

its always funny though. 7.5% of CB is not very strong, 2.5% on the scalp is less than is prescribed for acne. also CB cannot have sexual side effects. it is most likely impossible and there have been two quite large studies where not one person complained about them but we should take personal anecdotes? so what you are really saying is that all studies must be invalidated and that really these reports carry much more weight than a study? CB 2 studies with over 200 people on the 7.5% dose, no sexual side effects. on hairlossforum the incidence is probably 30% which if you are honest completely unbelievable

 

[badnewsbearer]

Absolutely! You’re so right about this.

I can’t stand c***ts telling me my watery semen is in my mind. May the gods strip them of all their hair.

Again, you’re absolutely right. f*** any whinging maggots who try to over think this and apply their experience and quite frankly bro science logic to what you’re actually experiencing.

These people don’t deserve hair.

yeah man. aspirin gives me gyno and no study in the world can invalidate my personal experience.

 

[Modill]

I am going to remind you a little bit of my process:

I was on Pyri 0.5% twice a day and CB 7.5% once a day.

After 5 days my alopecia stopped 100%, and after 6 weeks I started with terrible sexual side effects.

I stopped everything, and on the 4th day I started to recover libido. Same day, I used an application of CB 7.5% and the same side effects returned (ED and no libido).

I stopped and after 4 days I am starting to recover.

My idea is to stop CB, and use only pyri, and less doses, and use gloves not to touch it with my hands.

If anyone wants to give me some more advice, welcome.

 

[badnewsbearer]

so your claim is that both CB and pyrilutamide have sexual side effects associated with them? I mean with pyrilutamide I am inclined to believe you because there is no proper mechanism that would prevent this form happening. with CB I am not sure, the molecules properties are so that once it hits the bloodstream it gets converted to a cortisol like molecule that itself has no anti androgenic properties. that is why it was hyped and the only reason it wasn't at some point is because it was not that effective against hair loss after 12 months. basically this would mean all the studies are inherently untrustworthy and fake and the design of the molecule is flawed.

on a different note, if you got sides on pyr after 5 weeks the only way I can explain this is that there was some accumulation. because otherwise you'd probably get them almost immediately because the anti androgen acts within hours. it makes no sense to have libido on a fixed concentration of the drug and 5 weeks later no libido on the same concentration. normally even for finasteride side appear within the first 3-4 weeks.

so if there was accumulation it can be of the metabolite only because pyrilutamide itself has a short half life and saturation would have happened much faster. if it is the metabolite I suppose you can either reduce the dose or use it for 4 weeks, then stop 3-4 days. this will not ruin your hair but it will give your body enough time to clear out the metabolite enough so that further accumulation should not cause any problems. maybe using 2.5% alternating once and twice a day. that would yield a 2/3rd reduction in pyrilutamide and metabolites in the blood. at a certain dose accumulation to the extent where it becomes a problem will not be possible because the body also gets rid of the drug and an equliibrium is reached.

I think the difference between anti androgens and finasteride really is that lowered dosing actually makes a difference. with finasteride if you use 1/4th you still get basically the same effect. with pyrilutamide you get probably 1/4th of the effect but also probably far less side effects. studies have shown that 2.5% does at least something so it might be worth trying. maybe combined with an equally low dose of CB because they do work different not in terms of action but in terms of metabolism and side effects and so they might not add up side wise but efficacy wise they might.

so to sum up id try low dose CB and low dose pyrilutamide because I think it makes sense playing with dosing as opposed to finasteride dosing which always nukes DHT by at least 30-40% no matter the dose

 

[kiwi666]

I am going to remind you a little bit of my process:

I was on Pyri 0.5% twice a day and CB 7.5% once a day.

After 5 days my alopecia stopped 100%, and after 6 weeks I started with terrible sexual side effects.

I stopped everything, and on the 4th day I started to recover libido. Same day, I used an application of CB 7.5% and the same side effects returned (ED and no libido).

I stopped and after 4 days I am starting to recover.

My idea is to stop CB, and use only pyri, and less doses, and use gloves not to touch it with my hands.

If anyone wants to give me some more advice, welcome.

I got nothing for you but I wish you luck.

its always funny though. 7.5% of CB is not very strong, 2.5% on the scalp is less than is prescribed for acne. also CB cannot have sexual side effects. it is most likely impossible and there have been two quite large studies where not one person complained about them but we should take personal anecdotes? so what you are really saying is that all studies must be invalidated and that really these reports carry much more weight than a study? CB 2 studies with over 200 people on the 7.5% dose, no sexual side effects. on hairlossforum the incidence is probably 30% which if you are honest completely unbelievable

You’re being dim. But I think you’re probably just a mad and sad individual. So it’s understandable.

There are other factors I don’t see you taking into account. Which is at odds with your “thorough” discourse.

We don’t know if what modill is using is pure / EXACTLY the same as what they made in their own labs. We don’t know by a long shot if he’s using the same doses - despite him trying his best. We don’t know if the vehicle is the same. We don’t know if he has the equipment to get dosing exactly right.

Despite your research and knowledge there’s no way to compare controlled million dollar lab results with our back yard chemistry.

 

[Modill]

so your claim is that both CB and pyrilutamide have sexual side effects associated with them? I mean with pyrilutamide I am inclined to believe you because there is no proper mechanism that would prevent this form happening. with CB I am not sure, the molecules properties are so that once it hits the bloodstream it gets converted to a cortisol like molecule that itself has no anti androgenic properties. that is why it was hyped and the only reason it wasn't at some point is because it was not that effective against hair loss after 12 months. basically this would mean all the studies are inherently untrustworthy and fake and the design of the molecule is flawed.

on a different note, if you got sides on pyr after 5 weeks the only way I can explain this is that there was some accumulation. because otherwise you'd probably get them almost immediately because the anti androgen acts within hours. it makes no sense to have libido on a fixed concentration of the drug and 5 weeks later no libido on the same concentration. normally even for finasteride side appear within the first 3-4 weeks.

so if there was accumulation it can be of the metabolite only because pyrilutamide itself has a short half life and saturation would have happened much faster. if it is the metabolite I suppose you can either reduce the dose or use it for 4 weeks, then stop 3-4 days. this will not ruin your hair but it will give your body enough time to clear out the metabolite enough so that further accumulation should not cause any problems. maybe using 2.5% alternating once and twice a day. that would yield a 2/3rd reduction in pyrilutamide and metabolites in the blood. at a certain dose accumulation to the extent where it becomes a problem will not be possible because the body also gets rid of the drug and an equliibrium is reached.

I think the difference between anti androgens and finasteride really is that lowered dosing actually makes a difference. with finasteride if you use 1/4th you still get basically the same effect. with pyrilutamide you get probably 1/4th of the effect but also probably far less side effects. studies have shown that 2.5% does at least something so it might be worth trying. maybe combined with an equally low dose of CB because they do work different not in terms of action but in terms of metabolism and side effects and so they might not add up side wise but efficacy wise they might.

so to sum up id try low dose CB and low dose pyrilutamide because I think it makes sense playing with dosing as opposed to finasteride dosing which always nukes DHT by at least 30-40% no matter the dose

Hi @badnewsbearer ,

I know well what the CB study states: it says that it regenerates the hair very well during the first year and then it stops working, and that it does not produce side effects because as you say, CB disintegrates quickly in the blood.

And I tell you that if that were true, everyone could stop taking the terrible poison that is finasteride FOR 1 YEAR, recover their erections and their hair, no? But the truth is that I don't know any story, neither here nor in the Spanish forum https://foro.recuperarelpelo.com

I'm not saying the study is wrong, I'm saying what I see.

Changing the subject, you say I could leave Pyri 4 days every 4 weeks, but the study says it takes 19 days for the metabolism to clear. Pyri works great for hair, I'm going to use less and give it a try.

Are you trying Pyri or CB? Or are you going to start testing? What do you plan to do?

Regards

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[badnewsbearer]

I got nothing for you but I wish you luck.

You’re being dim. But I think you’re probably just a mad and sad individual. So it’s understandable.

There are other factors I don’t see you taking into account. Which is at odds with your “thorough” discourse.

We don’t know if what modill is using is pure / EXACTLY the same as what they made in their own labs. We don’t know by a long shot if he’s using the same doses - despite him trying his best. We don’t know if the vehicle is the same. We don’t know if he has the equipment to get dosing exactly right.

Despite your research and knowledge there’s no way to compare controlled million dollar lab results with our back yard chemistry.

well then that means just even more so that we cannot determine that a particular drug has side effects based upon online reports. experiementation is for us to find out what can work without having to wait years until the Pharma company gets something going(in the case of CB, phase 2 trials where done in 2019 and it was said it would be on the shelves in 2021) sure covid hit but they are just under miserable management. Kintor is doing better but I do not trust them to be honest because of other supsicious reports about them and because a trial like this could be easily manipulated. also the sample size and duration of the trial was far too short. Cassiopea did a lot better on that front.

maybe in 3 years or so we can get real pyrilutamide. until then the only guidance to whether it works or not should be the phase 3 clinical trial with a bigger sample size that will complete in July. it should be hundreds of people on the high dosage. however their problem is that they have marketed pyrilutamide as a sexual side effect free finasteride replacement. so what if someone gets sexual sides in their trial? it seems to me that it would be very much in their interest to hide this in some shady statistics and cover it up. after all otherwise their drug is just a much more inconvenient and far less proven finasteride analogue and would probably not be very popular. why apply a creme twice a day with no long term studies when you can pop a pill that provenly works very well if both cause sexual side effects. makes no sense. so it would be quite a business failure for them if this turns out to be this way. this is why I have my suspicion about the accuracy of their reporting. it is not reviewed by western scientists. of course they are also currently doing a phase 2 safety trial in the US and this will be much more interesting when they need to let the FDA review it. while the FDA is not an angel organization it is much better than the Chinese variant. they'd certainly be able to pick up poor mythology or tinkering with the samples etc.

 

[badnewsbearer]

Hi @badnewsbearer ,

I know well what the CB study states: it says that it regenerates the hair very well during the first year and then it stops working, and that it does not produce side effects because as you say, CB disintegrates quickly in the blood.

And I tell you that if that were true, everyone could stop taking the terrible poison that is finasteride FOR 1 YEAR, recover their erections and their hair, no? But the truth is that I don't know any story, neither here nor in the Spanish forum https://foro.recuperarelpelo.com

I'm not saying the study is wrong, I'm saying what I see.

Changing the subject, you say I could leave Pyri 4 days every 4 weeks, but the study says it takes 19 days for the metabolism to clear. Pyri works great for hair, I'm going to use less and give it a try.

Are you trying Pyri or CB? Or are you going to start testing? What do you plan to do?

Regards

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

it does not say that it stops working, we do not know how the curve will go after the 12 months, it could be stable after that and provide further maintenance. it would make no sense to just lose efficacy because it clearly is getting to the dermal papilla and thus has some rather potent anti androgenic activity even after 6 months. I do not know any story either but not because of side effects but lack of efficacy. and it would be odd if the drug is both, ineffective but also causes sexual sides. if it has not enough anti androgenic action where it is applied it has even less potency in other parts of the body like the penis.

yes it might take longer for the metabolite to clear but you do not need full clearance, apparently it is enough to stay under a certain level, otherwise you would have gotten sides after days and not 6 weeks. it took 6 weeks either for some process in your body to get kicked off or for the drug to accumulate. if it is the latter the only solution is experimentation.

I am currently not trying either of them. I am trying a low dose of topical finasteride. but if that does not work due to sides or lack of efficacy I will probably try pyrilutamide. I am not too excited about it however. most likely I will need to shave my head because there will be no other good opportunities

 

[Modill]

Yesterday I had my líbido back at 95%. I applied 0,5ml of pyri with gloves for not to touch it, and now bye bye libido and morning erection again.

Kintor is the biggest liar, more so than Merk.

 

[hairlossisevil]

Yesterday I had my líbido back at 95%. I applied 0,5ml of pyri with gloves for not to touch it, and now bye bye libido and morning erection again.

Kintor is the biggest liar, more so than Merk.

Where is your Pyri from?

 

[Modill]

Where is your Pyri from?

Actifolic

 

[badnewsbearer]

Yesterday I had my líbido back at 95%. I applied 0,5ml of pyri with gloves for not to touch it, and now bye bye libido and morning erection again.

Kintor is the biggest liar, more so than Merk.

so your side took 6 weeks to show up then you stopped and they went away. and now you say the appeared after just a day of 1/4th of the dose? something cannot be right. it either takes so long to cause sides or not. I think your personal anecdotes are of no value at this point it just makes no sense

 

[Ralph Wiggum]

Yesterday I had my líbido back at 95%. I applied 0,5ml of pyri with gloves for not to touch it, and now bye bye libido and morning erection again.

Kintor is the biggest liar, more so than Merk.

Definition of PSYCHOSOMATIC

of, relating to, concerned with, or involving both mind and body; of, relating to, involving, or concerned with bodily symptoms caused by mental or emotional disturbance… See the full definition

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