Kintor's Pyrilutamide outcompetes RU-58841 (insane binding affinity)+ potential compound reveal?

[frank33]

Low libido is caused by baldness too, dude. It is also associated with depression. Many will find increased libido on both finasteride and Duta as it increases overall circulating T. But why do you care if someone else wants to use finasteride? These aren't disease-oriented side effects or liver ones. If it helps 50 percent some and 40 percent immensely and even ten percent have the reputed sides, then who cares. I also read intently the article by the plaintiff. I am sorry he killed himself but that doesn't have anything to do with finasteride. Balding people can become suicidal. I see it every day on here and Tressless.

In my opinion someone who commits suicide due to hair loss has an underlying mental problem that is just triggered by it.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

In my opinion someone who commits suicide due to hair loss has an underlying mental problem that is just triggered by it.

I don't know if any studies have been done. Even at 20, male pattern baldness for me made me aware of my own mortality. I never was suicidal but very depressed. In my opinion, it is harder on white males because our culture often uses hair expressively whether in the military or in a rock group. But we also don't understand depression in general. There are many, many puzzling suicides by people with everything to live for as the refrain goes. Yeah suicide is horrible and I won't go into my own situation except to say that ideation is different from being suicidal and lots of us have suicidal ideation if our hair is coming out in handfuls.

 

[frank33]

I don't know if any studies have been done. Even at 20, male pattern baldness for me made me aware of my own mortality. I never was suicidal but very depressed. In my opinion, it is harder on white males because our culture often uses hair expressively whether in the military or in a rock group. But we also don't understand depression in general. There are many, many puzzling suicides by people with everything to live for as the refrain goes. Yeah suicide is horrible and I won't go into my own situation except to say that ideation is different from being suicidal and lots of us have suicidal ideation if our hair is coming out in handfuls.

Suicidal ideation and actual suicide are very distant things.

 

[Micky_007]

Low libido is caused by baldness too, dude. It is also associated with depression. Many will find increased libido on both finasteride and Duta as it increases overall circulating T. But why do you care if someone else wants to use finasteride? These aren't disease-oriented side effects or liver ones. If it helps 50 percent some and 40 percent immensely and even ten percent have the reputed sides, then who cares. I also read intently the article by the plaintiff. I am sorry he killed himself but that doesn't have anything to do with finasteride. Balding people can become suicidal. I see it every day on here and Tressless.

As I mentioned, my hair became exponentially better after stopping Finasteride. I was and maintained a Norwood 2 for 5 years after stopping Finasteride with so much thicker and healthier looking hair. No sign of Balding after I stopped Finasteride. I was also no more depressed after stopping Finasteride after a few months.

Yet I continued to have low libido until now. So it's quite obvious your statement trying to say that "Balding causes low libido" and your attempt at making it seem like my sudden low libido (that only started once I was using Finasteride) is, according to you, not due to Finasteride, is clearly false yet again

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Suicidal ideation and actual suicide are very distant things.

Lol. I agree except most people have to engage in suicidal ideation in order to commit suicide. Some people might just drive spontaneously into a firewall or ravine but otherwise, it takes some planning. At the same time, many people have ideation and it's nothing more than a fantasy like this: "Boy, will she be sorry she dumped me...."

 

[Micky_007]

Dude. On here we virtually always generalize. Second, many of us <raises hand> have taken high-level stats courses and we see the holes in such arguments immediately. You are not "many people". You are one anecdote that may or may not be due to finasteride. Of course, baldness doesn't always cause clinical depression but I would say that in the milder sense, baldness causes 99% to have depression. It is also something that can cause impotence.

Do you want your hair back or do you want to just hinder others? If we were talking cancer, okay, but I would rather have hair obviously than to be potent but even a lot of males would make the same choice and a lot of teen males are making that choice.

If I were you I wouldn't try to bring education into this because I am an Engineer by profession and we are known to have extremely high levels of critical thinking skills and studied one of highest levels of Mathematics. It's also the reason many of my comments are not mainstream as we all know mainstream media is usually false too.
I am also very good at finding the holes in information.

Also, I have provided sufficient studies that prove I am definitely not "one anecdote".

Also, I don't doubt that hairloss causes mild depression but my point is that many people who have stabilized their hairloss besides me still have low libido or impotence after using Finasteride and it's obvious that Finasteride was the cause.

 

[Micky_007]

Low libido is also associated with getting older and it may change at different times in life without any seeming cause. If you want your libido back, then supplement T. That might work but reductase inhibitors do raise T, and sometimes substantially. I am glad your hair improved after desisting and this might be true in a very small number of cases but duta and finasteride promote hair growth for 90 percent of the masses. I am not against you but we all know that some people are virulently anti-finasteride. My poll on my thread has 22 percent of those polled stating that they would not even handle finasteride (which is often the requirement for women, not men, strangely enough).

I was in my early 20's when I experienced low libido (only after using Finasteride) , as were many others. I was also perfectly healthy at the time and had perfect sexual functionality and health prior to using Finasteride. Also the studies I provided included people from their 20's as well. And proved the majority experienced low libido and some experienced impotence. The studies obviously also ranged from people aged 20 to late 50's.

 

[Micky_007]

My libido went up and frankly became intolerable. I have been on both sides now and both estrogen and T increase libido but mixed T and e2 environments often result in low libido such as being halfway to reaching adult female E2 levels. AA's very often cause low libido. The difference is that libido under E2 is not compulsive which makes sense since male animals rut while the females stand by wanting to let the winner mount.

I don't doubt that Finasteride would work positively for some people, if you had good results I'm happy for you. But I dislike when people try to downplay the side effects of others on Finasteride and downplay the amount of people negatively affected by it.

I sense we've finally reached an end to our conversation. Let's not discuss Finasteride any further here since this thread was created to discuss Kintors Drugs.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[trialAcc]

It was a class action law suit. They did not require 1100 lawyers (a lawyer per person). And yes it does sound like a law suit that carried much weight because if they were wrong, they wouldnt have gotten paid out firstly and secondly it was due to all these opposing studies in the first place that forced* Merck and Finasteride to increase their side effects profile.

I see that as a victory.

No, I'm talking about the legal fees of Merck. A class action suit with 1000+ people would cost them tens of millions to litigate if fully drawn out. The fact that it settled for such a low amount tells you how weak the suit was.

 

[coolio]

Finasteride lawsuit prospects are shitty because it's a bunch of symptoms that are difficult to prove at all, never mind prove causality. And it's not a very common drug in the big picture. (Tylenol is a common drug.) Some of the most damaging Finasteride symptoms are also extremely embarrassing for people to admit. Look at all the factors working against this legal case.

It took generations to get it legally proven that tobacco causes cancer. And that was back when smoking was so common that they needed smoking sections inside restaurants. Cars were built with an ashtray for each seat. Airplanes needed smoking sections. Cigarette smokers were everywhere.

 

[Micky_007]

No, I'm talking about the legal fees of Merck. A class action suit with 1000+ people would cost them tens of millions to litigate if fully drawn out. The fact that it settled for such a low amount tells you how weak the suit was.

If you mean the plaintiffs incurred major legal fees, I highly doubt it because they could of have gotten a lawyer who would have charged them zero legal fees. I mean in that 1100 people who sued, surely atleast 10% knew of lawyers who could assist with the case for minimal to no legal fees.

Merck would have had to incur a lot of Additional costs for legal fees because that would have been charged to their business, massive fees I'd expect for such a scale. If they weren't in the wrong, they would have looked to counter sue to recuperate those costs.

The reason the plaintiffs got paid out a low amount is probably because they were paid out only enough to cover their medical bills + some extra money to cover their inconvenience, which is probably what most only wanted. You can't expect to sue for hundreds of millions for things like depression or anxiety, low libido, etc.

Although these things can affect people lives greatly, the court would probably only consider paying out significant amounts if it was extremely severe to the point it's was life threatening. Of course, not the best measure for how much something affects people lives.

Other sexual and mental side effects are difficult to prove in court especially if they had stopped some time after stopping Finasteride. For example, testicular pain, brain fog, watery semen, reduced semen count, even increased anxiety and depression, although very bad, usually subside after stopping Finasteride after some time.

Proving ED and Genital Shrinkage in a court due to Finasteride is difficult because lawyers could always say that they did not conduct proper trials from the time the person started Finasteride so they can't say for sure. So another way Merck can easily get away.
Although this is obviously not a good measure because people could have genuinely gotten impotence/ED/genital shrinkage due to Finasteride and if that were the case, there would definitely have been millions paid out per person. I do believe people know their bodies better than anyone.

The court probably would have ruled in the favor of the plaintiffs however if they pursued the case because 1100 people all sueing for the same things definitely will raise a lot of concern.

Basically, if these people were in a clinical trial from the time they had started Finasteride and they then experienced side effects, it would be a whole different ball game where much harsher punishment would have been inflicted by the court towards Merck.

Merck got off relatively soft because they would have just had to pay off medical bills and increase their side effects profile. However, that doesn't mean the plaintiffs cases were weak or false in any way, it simply means they were not in a clinical trial/study/monitoring environment which could have tracked their decline in health since prior to Finasteride and up until the end of use of Finasteride. So it was just unfortunate for the plaintiffs.

There's also the obvious reason that bribery came into play whereby the judge got bought off.

Now just have an opened mind on this, in every country, every adult should be aware that if individuals have enough money, lawyers, scientists, and judges can be bought off. I actually know people who are just above middle class in terms of finances that were able to do this.
It's far more common with millionaires, and it's almost obvious to expect some corruption to happen when your dealing with a multi-billion dollar company like Merck.

Simple examples are how governments of every country have judges who are bought off.

However, as unfortunate as it was that the plaintiffs weren't in a clinical study environment during the duration of their Finasteride usage, I have provided several studies which were in clinical study environments by proper medical professionals who are qualified and have proved side effects at a much higher rate.

 

[Micky_007]

Increasing T is a dangerous game because of the side effects associated with it which are quite alot. It has sexual side effects and can increase chances of a heart attack.

Also, increasing T means more T in the body available which can convert to DHT and therefore result in accelerated Balding. Playing with hormone levels, is usually very dangerous especially with those who have male pattern baldness as their already sensitive to DHT.

As for v**** or other sexual enhancers, they don't work for those who have ED.

For such reasons for some people, especially those who have girlfriends or wives, or plan on having them or kids, it's good to warn people of the really real potential side effects of Finasteride so that they can try avoid being in such a situation in the first place by trying safer treatments first.

 

[Micky_007]

Mickey, I now declare you obsessed with this topic which isn't always a bad thing but your stamina is impressive.

LOL let's us all stop discussing this topic. I thought you would stop after I said let's leave this topic but you didn't lol but Im sure we can all allow this thread to only be for Kintors Drugs now

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

LOL let's us all stop discussing this topic. I thought you would stop after I said let's leave this topic but you didn't lol but Im sure we can all allow this thread to only be for Kintors Drugs now

No, I left. I just saw your name was still in the most recent posting log which has ten. I have been on the hormonal threads. I don't care. It's good to be impassioned. People with ADD often have something called hyper-focus where it inverts and maybe you are in a state of hyper-focus like I find myself quite often. It's enjoyable and often the words come easily. I write more almost certainly than anyone else on here and formerly on the reddit and even Tressless sites.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Literally the most reported side effect of Finasteride is low libido. Any web site you go to will tell you that, literally even Merck and Finasteride state low libido is a side effect, but since you don't care about the side effects of others then maybe the fact that based on the statement that you claimed in your next comment "Finasteride definitely doesn't cause decreased libido" then maybe your opinions* shouldn't be considered either.

I missed this earlier although I sparred with you a bit. Yeah, I overstated that point but still, when the mechanics of an effect are undescribed, I tend to discount them as opposed to side effects that we can clearly describe why they occur. They other thing is Goddess bless but the anti-finasteride people tend to be obsessed. We all know you are out there, anti-finasteride folks so I will say a prayer for you but eh, how much can a person read the same stuff over and over and over.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Increasing T is a dangerous game because of the side effects associated with it which are quite alot. It has sexual side effects and can increase chances of a heart attack.

Also, increasing T means more T in the body available which can convert to DHT and therefore result in accelerated Balding. Playing with hormone levels, is usually very dangerous especially with those who have male pattern baldness as their already sensitive to DHT.

As for v**** or other sexual enhancers, they don't work for those who have ED.

For such reasons for some people, especially those who have girlfriends or wives, or plan on having them or kids, it's good to warn people of the really real potential side effects of Finasteride so that they can try avoid being in such a situation in the first place by trying safer treatments first.

If they can find a mate with their big bald pate....

 

[trialAcc]

Finasteride lawsuit prospects are shitty because it's a bunch of symptoms that are difficult to prove at all, never mind prove causality. And it's not a very common drug in the big picture. (Tylenol is a common drug.) Some of the most damaging Finasteride symptoms are also extremely embarrassing for people to admit. Look at all the factors working against this legal case.

It took generations to get it legally proven that tobacco causes cancer. And that was back when smoking was so common that they needed smoking sections inside restaurants. Cars were built with an individual ashtray for each seat. Airplanes needed smoking sections. Cigarette smokers were EVERYWHERE.

Yeah totally the same thing.

If you mean the plaintiffs incurred major legal fees, I highly doubt it because they could of have gotten a lawyer who would have charged them zero legal fees. I mean in that 1100 people who sued, surely atleast 10% knew of lawyers who could assist with the case for minimal to no legal fees.

Merck would have had to incur a lot of Additional costs for legal fees because that would have been charged to their business, massive fees I'd expect for such a scale. If they weren't in the wrong, they would have looked to counter sue to recuperate those costs.

The reason the plaintiffs got paid out a low amount is probably because they were paid out only enough to cover their medical bills + some extra money to cover their inconvenience, which is probably what most only wanted. You can't expect to sue for hundreds of millions for things like depression or anxiety, low libido, etc.

Although these things can affect people lives greatly, the court would probably only consider paying out significant amounts if it was extremely severe to the point it's was life threatening. Of course, not the best measure for how much something affects people lives.

Other sexual and mental side effects are difficult to prove in court especially if they had stopped some time after stopping Finasteride. For example, testicular pain, brain fog, watery semen, reduced semen count, even increased anxiety and depression, although very bad, usually subside after stopping Finasteride after some time.

Proving ED and Genital Shrinkage in a court due to Finasteride is difficult because lawyers could always say that they did not conduct proper trials from the time the person started Finasteride so they can't say for sure. So another way Merck can easily get away.
Although this is obviously not a good measure because people could have genuinely gotten impotence/ED/genital shrinkage due to Finasteride and if that were the case, there would definitely have been millions paid out per person. I do believe people know their bodies better than anyone.

The court probably would have ruled in the favor of the plaintiffs however if they pursued the case because 1100 people all sueing for the same things definitely will raise a lot of concern.

Basically, if these people were in a clinical trial from the time they had started Finasteride and they then experienced side effects, it would be a whole different ball game where much harsher punishment would have been inflicted by the court towards Merck.

Merck got off relatively soft because they would have just had to pay off medical bills and increase their side effects profile. However, that doesn't mean the plaintiffs cases were weak or false in any way, it simply means they were not in a clinical trial/study/monitoring environment which could have tracked their decline in health since prior to Finasteride and up until the end of use of Finasteride. So it was just unfortunate for the plaintiffs.

There's also the obvious reason that bribery came into play whereby the judge got bought off.

Now just have an opened mind on this, in every country, every adult should be aware that if individuals have enough money, lawyers, scientists, and judges can be bought off. I actually know people who are just above middle class in terms of finances that were able to do this.
It's far more common with millionaires, and it's almost obvious to expect some corruption to happen when your dealing with a multi-billion dollar company like Merck.

Simple examples are how governments of every country have judges who are bought off.

However, as unfortunate as it was that the plaintiffs weren't in a clinical study environment during the duration of their Finasteride usage, I have provided several studies which were in clinical study environments by proper medical professionals who are qualified and have proved side effects at a much higher rate.

I stopped reading as soon as you said "counter sue". This isn't a TV show, and you don't understand the legal process.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Yeah totally the same thing.

I stopped reading as soon as you said "counter sue". This isn't a TV show, and you don't understand the legal process.

Yeah. That only happens generally in tort and contract cases where both parties allege damages. Sometimes you might be able to sue for something akin to harassment via tort but this is rare. Those guys don't have enough money for Merck to sue them although I guess defamation could be a potential counter-claim but that is all but impossible since here, well, it is mostly free speech. If someone from say, Upjohn said negative things about finasteride, then maybe a counterclaim for defamation would be viable. We used to distinguish libel and slander but those are mostly bar exam issues and we mostly say defamation for all forms of speech that reach others that are unprotected by free speech.

If one guy who was really rich were the main one dissing on finasteride, then again maybe a counterclaim would be practical and viable. Litigation sucks even for me. All of my lawyers have sucked but custody cases are corrupt in a way that other areas of law are not.

 

[trialAcc]

Yeah. That only happens generally in tort and contract cases where both parties allege damages. Sometimes you might be able to sue for something akin to harassment via tort but this is rare. Those guys don't have enough money for Merck to sue them although I guess defamation could be a potential counter-claim but that is all but impossible since here, well, it is mostly free speech. If someone from say, Upjohn said negative things about finasteride, then maybe a counterclaim for defamation would be viable. We used to distinguish libel and slander but those are mostly bar exam issues and we mostly say defamation for all forms of speech that reach others that are unprotected by free speech.

If one guy who was really rich were the main one dissing on finasteride, then again maybe a counterclaim would be practical and viable. Litigation sucks even for me. All of my lawyers have sucked but custody cases are corrupt in a way that other areas of law are not.

It's also just bad publicity that no major pharmaceutical company is going to invite.

"Merck sues a group of depressed balding men with ED".

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

It's also just bad publicity that no major pharmaceutical company is going to invite.

"Merck sues a group of depressed balding men with ED".

Yeah or how about "Merck sues former clients...."