Low Dose Oral minoxidil Study For Male Pattern Baldness

[OneDay_NW0]

I'm open to trying 2.5mg but I'm worried about what it may do to my body in the long term since I know nothing at all about how much minoxidil is dangerous.

Well, minoxidil was invented to regulate your blood pressure and you take like 100mg a day for it. So taking like 2.5 - 5% of that dosage won't kill you longterm. And if you really get sides, you'll see it fast and it will go away, when you drop minoxidil.

 

[Otis Mack]

Here is another good thread about oral minoxidil:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ow-dose-oral-minoxidil-less-than-5-mg.121167/

 

[Otis Mack]

Virtually everybody who uses oral minoxidil gets results but MITIGATING the side effects and avoiding tolerance are the keys to long term usage.

The tolerance effect of minoxidil is due to formation of superoxide radical with nitric oxide and then you get the nasty peroxynitrite. Peroxynitrite formation is thought to be a player in many diseases including met syndrome.

Some have used topical NAC with topical minoxidil and reported better results because superoxide is getting scavenged by NAC which keeps nitric oxide levels high and avoids peroxynitrite. Keep NAC and minoxidil separate if you do this.


Some of the arrhythmia problems are discussed heretaurine was mentioned in the above thread and it works for me at about 4-8 gram/day)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3264827/


4. Therapeutic implications
Conventional antiarrhythmic drugs target ion channels and reduce ion currents. Nevertheless, in many cases, the targeted ion channels are already downregulated. The role of ROS in arrhythmogenesis, as outlined above, opens new and potentially safer therapeutic options to treat arrhythmias using antioxidants.


Administration of either GSH or N-acethylcysteine ______significantly______ reduces reperfusion arrhythmias [186].



Additionally, altering ratios of GSH/GSSH can affect the ΔΨm and the occurrence of arrhythmias [113]. ROS-mediated collapses of the ΔΨm is prevented by the addition of exogenous GSH [187].

Ascorbate (vitamin C) reduces the incidence of atrial pacing-induced peroxynitrite formation as well as postoperative AF [72].

Vitamin E analogues scavenge free radicals and reduce the incidence of ischemia/reperfusion-induced VF [188]

. Another synthetic ROS scavenger, 6,6-methylene bis 2,2-dimethyl-4-methane sulphonic acid: Na-1,2-dihydroquinoline (MTDQ-A), significantly reduces the incidence of VF after myocardial infarction following coronary ligation in a dog [189].

Nevertheless, general antioxidant strategies have not always been successful in antiarrhythmic therapies.

Explanations for the strong association of oxidative stress and arrhythmia but a more qualified success of antioxidant strategies to prevent arrhythmias may be explained by the idea that redox stress is compartmentalized. As we discussed above, mitochondrial oxidative stress contributes to a wide range of damage in cardiac metabolism and ion homeostasis. Therefore, reducing mitochondria oxidative stress could be a more effective anti-oxidant approach. Indeed, several mitochondria-targeted ROS scavengers have been developed and are ripe for study of their potential anti-arrhythmic properties [112, 114, 190-192].

Strategies targeting mitochondrial ROS release pathways may be antiarrhythmic [114, 193]. IMAC inhibitors, DIDS and PK11195, can prevent the cell-wide accumulation of ROS and reversible collapses in the ΔΨm [114, 193]. Furthermore, 4′chlorodiazepam, a mitochondrial benzodiazepine receptor modulator, can prevent reperfusion arrhythmias in isolated rabbit heart [112]. This inhibitor, as well as DIDS and PK11195, can prevent the INa decrease induced by elevated NADH and ROS [16]. Additionally, other mitochondrial targeted antioxidants such as peptides, SS-02 (Dmt-D-Arg-Phe-Lys-NH2), SS-31 (D-Arg-Dmt-Lys-Phe-NH2) and SS-20 (Phe-D-Arg-Phe-Lys-NH2) are also effective in ischemia-reperfusion [194, 195]. Arrhythmias were significantly reduced in ischemia-reperfusion injured rat hearts when treated SS-02 and SS-31 directly before reperfusion [196, 197].

The mitochondrial anti-oxidant, MitoQ, is targeted to the mitochondria by covalent conjugation with a lipophilic triphenylphosphonium cation. As previously discussed, CoQ (ubiquinone) accepts electrons from complex I or II, and donates to complex II by the formation of reduced product, ubiquinol [191]. The protective effects of MitoQ have been demonstrated by the administration to rats in their drinking water [191]. Under ischemia-reperfusion injury, MitoQ shows significant protection against heart dysfunction, tissue damage, and mitochondrial dysfunction [191]



. A similar study also has shown that MitoQ has the protective effects on cardiac ischemia-reperfusion injury [190]. MitoQ shows a protective effect against an increased blood pressure in a hypertensive rat model, which has mitochondrial oxidative damage in endothelial cells [192]. Therefore, it is likely to have antiarrhythmic properties.

 

[Otis Mack]

Here is another good thread about oral minoxidil:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ow-dose-oral-minoxidil-less-than-5-mg.121167/

 

[Otis Mack]

IIRC in the other forum(hairrestorationetwork) he was doing like 10 mg a week.

I looked for the thread but there are so many that is what memory serves from reading it awhile back.

He was still getting results(I think) even after 3 years. Remember the topical minoxidil study(Olsen?) showing minoxidil results are tapering slowly after about 1.5 to 2 years.

This implies to me that skipping taking minoxidil every day avoids tolerance. You can also scavenge superoxide with the substances mentioned(NAC, glutathione, mitoQ and 5-methylfolate).

Taurine is just always good to take IMO and has reports of it growing some hair at high doses(like 8 grams per day) by a guy on raypeat forum. Taurine is a weak superoxide scavenger so it makes sense that a high(er) dosage would be needed. But some say not to go that high?

Usually lower dosages but using many different angles(cocktail approach) works better anyways.

I think there is a low cost "mitoQ" out there but couldnt get answers because my post mysteriously got deleted in a pro-mitoQ forum.

Swansons and other places have a water soluble Co-Q10 that I swear is MitoQ or nearly enough to accomplish the same things at much lower cost.

 

[Otis Mack]

You are saying that it's possible to still get results by adding say 2 tablets a week of minoxidil 5mg? Was the guy you are talking about on topical minoxidil too?


Can I been topical minoxidil as well during this regimen?

Lets say I don't apply any minoxidil on days I take a tablet to compensate for possible side effect. Is this feasible?

Remember the body/cells respond to signals by CHANGES in the circulating levels of bio-active molecules. It is good(IMO) to let levels of anything fluctuate/sag because if you continually give the cell an always on signal it gets ignored.

 

[Analogies]

This has been discussed in great detail on many forum threads, most notably HERE
Oral minoxidil has scientifically been proven to be 80% more effective than topical.

 

[Otis Mack]

I wonder if sodium nitrite would have less side effects? It also is very easy to find and cheap...

https://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Nitri...ocphy=9018026&hvtargid=pla-571470299675&psc=1


Here they make a gel from sodium nitrite but I cant find a source for maleic acid. Maleic and malic are different and malic is easily purchased maleic is more difficult to get.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01347957


Other: Nitric Oxide (NO) Gel
Nitric Oxide (NO) Gel is created by premixing of contents from 2 separate gel bottles. The first bottle, NO gel, is a solution of sodium nitrite (14.6mM) in distilled water with hydroxyethylcellulose (molecular weight 50,000-1,250,000) added for gel formation. The second bottle, Releasing-stimulator gel, is a solution of maleic acid (14.6mM) and ascorbic acid (14.6mM) in distilled water with hydroxyethylcellulose added for gel formation.

 

[Otis Mack]

More about sodium nitrite:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/bcpt.12480


https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2013.00174/full

This is why merely taking arginine will not help:


"It has been suggested that the shunting of L-arginine away from the NOS/NO pathway toward the arginase/L-ornithine pathway contributes to certain vascular pathology (4– 7) (Figure 2).

Expression of arginase in the vascular wall is induced under pro-inflammatory conditions, as well as by reactive oxygen species (ROS) and reactive nitrogen species (RNS) (8). Increased arginase activity has been associated with hypertension and coronary vascular dysfunction (9– 11)."


"Reduced NO bioavailability through eNOS “uncoupling” is a contributing factor to reduced local NO in atherosclerosis, pulmonary hypertension, and vessel injury (7, 19). Tetrahydrobiopterin (BH4) is an essential cofactor for the enzymatic production of NO via NOSs (20). Uncoupling occurs under conditions of reduced BH4 availability where eNOS produces superoxide anions rather than NO (21, 22) (Figure 3). In addition, ROS are produced by NADPH oxidase and XOR (23, 24). ROS have been recognized as contributing to vascular dysfunction, through mechanisms including endothelial dysfunction, vascular smooth muscle cell growth, lipid peroxidation, and inflammation (25). An alternative source of NO under these conditions may help restore the NO deficiency attributed to uncoupling."

 

[Hippocrates21]

I’ve been taking oral minoxidil, 10mg a day, for just over 2 years. I initially started on 0.25mg a day prescribed by a dermatologist. Then I quickly moved up to 2mg a day. It wasn’t doing too much for me so I decided to ask my GP for a prescription for Loniten tablets 10mg. He gave me the script and I find it’s much cheaper and easier than getting it from a dermatologist. About $50 a bottle which lasts me a few months. I started taking 5mg a day and have been taking 10mg a day, (a full Loniten tablet), for just over 2 years.

I feel a lot of people on these forums are way too cautious. I’ve had zero side effects, no changes in blood pressure or heart rate. The only side effect i’ve noticed is that the blond hairs on my arms and hands turned dark but did not increase in thickness. I have a relatively hairless body, although I am Caucasian, but I’ve noticed no other increases in body hair or facial hair. Perhaps the dutasteride is taking care of that, lol.

In terms of results, I’m relatively pleased. It’s definitely not a miracle like some people on here assume it is. Though I have always been a low responder to all forms of minoxidil. I have DUPA so I have noticed a moderate thickening of my donor zone. My sides have thickened somewhat. The crown is totally solid. The most disappointing results are of course at the hairline. Occasional thick black hairs have popped up, which is strange because my natural hair colour is light brown, and there is a dark fuzz along my hairline and on my temples, though not enough to make an appreciable cosmetic difference.

I would suggest that if you are a poor responder to topical minoxidil then it might be a good option for you. Do it with a doctor and don’t panic yourself into a nocebo effect.

 

[wilfred]

I’ve been taking oral minoxidil, 10mg a day, for just over 2 years. I initially started on 0.25mg a day prescribed by a dermatologist. Then I quickly moved up to 2mg a day. It wasn’t doing too much for me so I decided to ask my GP for a prescription for Loniten tablets 10mg. He gave me the script and I find it’s much cheaper and easier than getting it from a dermatologist. About $50 a bottle which lasts me a few months. I started taking 5mg a day and have been taking 10mg a day, (a full Loniten tablet), for just over 2 years.

I feel a lot of people on these forums are way too cautious. I’ve had zero side effects, no changes in blood pressure or heart rate. The only side effect i’ve noticed is that the blond hairs on my arms and hands turned dark but did not increase in thickness. I have a relatively hairless body, although I am Caucasian, but I’ve noticed no other increases in body hair or facial hair. Perhaps the dutasteride is taking care of that, lol.

In terms of results, I’m relatively pleased. It’s definitely not a miracle like some people on here assume it is. Though I have always been a low responder to all forms of minoxidil. I have DUPA so I have noticed a moderate thickening of my donor zone. My sides have thickened somewhat. The crown is totally solid. The most disappointing results are of course at the hairline. Occasional thick black hairs have popped up, which is strange because my natural hair colour is light brown, and there is a dark fuzz along my hairline and on my temples, though not enough to make an appreciable cosmetic difference.

I would suggest that if you are a poor responder to topical minoxidil then it might be a good option for you. Do it with a doctor and don’t panic yourself into a nocebo effect.

I take 5mg per day and also no change in blood pressure. I felt a bit off, mostly tired, for the first week but since then my body had adjusted and I feel great. I never had results with topical but oral works well.

 

[itsjustsimon]

Well, minoxidil was invented to regulate your blood pressure and you take like 100mg a day for it. So taking like 2.5 - 5% of that dosage won't kill you longterm. And if you really get sides, you'll see it fast and it will go away, when you drop minoxidil.

Yeah, it was, but minoxidil is rarely used even for regulating blood pressure and mainly in the 20-40mg dosage range. 100mg is the absolute maximum.

I believe a low dose ( 2.5 - 5mg / day ) is a great way to have an additional soldier in your hair loss battle without getting serious side effects. But still, try to avoid it if possible.

 

[Warmer82]

It really works. I'm surprised more people aren't using it.

Wilfred.
You say you had good growth with oral MX.
do you drink alot of alcohol, coffee, fruit juice, take any supplements?
Reason i ask ive been experimenting with expressing and inhibiting sult1a1. There are more sult1a1 enzymes in the liver that convert MX to MXS. Minoxidil sulfate is the compound that makes the hair grow. Without sult1a1 gene minoxidil is zero effective

 

[S14a]

I took 10mg for over a year with good growth. Had a friend who took at least 5x10mg loniten throughout the day and probably still does...he had amazing growth.

 

[NiBBa]

I'm on 20 mg loniten daily now for 3 months. I started as a Norwood 5 and am a diffuse baby hair nw2 now. lets see brah
also finally i grow a beard and my eyebrows got thiccer

 

[bigjimmy]

I’m going to try 2.5mg. Anybody know a reliable site to purchase this from, I’m in the UK ?

 

[Derelict]

I’m going to try 2.5mg. Anybody know a reliable site to purchase this from, I’m in the UK ?

Here https://www.beautystorefront.net/hair-care

or here https://www.thailandpharmacy.net/product-category/hypertension/

The first one is a tiny bit cheaper and they take paypal, but it takes around 20 days to arrive, the second one takes about 7 days to arrive in the uk and it's just a simple uk to uk bank transfer. Up to you.

 

[OneDay_NW0]

I'm on 20 mg loniten daily now for 3 months. I started as a Norwood 5 and am a diffuse baby hair nw2 now. lets see brah
also finally i grow a beard and my eyebrows got thiccer

Problem is, you only talked sh*t and lies on this board, so nobody knows...

 

[Derelict]

I think it's a fairly safe route for people to explore who don't respond to topical or don't like the idea of applying topicals to their head every day, my experience wasn't too great but i think im probably the odd one out on that. Fairly cheap to get a hold of and the health risks are a bit overblown imo. Worth a shot.

 

[Night]

So I'm coming up to 1 month soon on oral minoxidil. I'll give you guys feedback when I see something change, nothing so far.

I'm going with drinking Kirkland Minoxidil, I measure .2 out of 1 ml. 1 ml = 50mg so .2 should equal 10mg. So far nothing different, no water issues, no hair growing anywhere new. But I do get a slight head change when I take it but goes away after a few mins.