Minoxidil = More Dht = Accelerated Hair Loss

[yetti]

I'm personally skeptical that nizoral does anything at all. Maybe very little.

 

[yetti]

BTW I love your avatar. Mike Judge rules.

 

[Trichosan]

Here's what I think the deal is. If you're a young guy (or gal) with fast, aggressive balding, then minoxidil isn't going to be effective on its own for very long. However if you're in your late 30s or 40s and your rate of balding is slower, and you're a good responder, then it can be effective for several years on its own without any DHT blocker, keeping the user at or above baseline. As with every medication it depends upon the specific condition of the patient and his or her response to the drug.

Damn it, yetti, why didn't you tell me this thirty years ago!

 

[bridgeburn]

I'm personally skeptical that nizoral does anything at all. Maybe very little.

There was a pretty interesting Japanese study with Ketoconazole cream --> http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-25116-page-0-category-0-order-last_answer.html

that's with cream though, I heard the shampoo is more effective if you leave it on for 40 minutes before rinsing. I also doubt just regular washing would do very much.

BTW I love your avatar. Mike Judge rules.

Dang Ol' Hell Yeah man!

 

[hairblues]

I'm just speculating here, but maybe you could build tolerance to it and should cycle it or increase the strength.
and maybe try to "outrun" the baldness by increasing from 5% to 10% to 15% etc.

I had read on her alopecia that after first year of use, people 'should' stop for one week 1x a year BUT I don't know if that is BS or not.

Hard to say if it's really a good idea because it seems like you're kinda... angry at minoxidil based on your posts in this thread until this one
.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL funniest post i read all day.

 

[Trichosan]

This is true. and perhaps older men who are having a natural decline in male hormones could benefit from minoxidil alone.

I hope so. Just had a blood test to check everything, waiting on results. will see how much decline there has been. I wonder if finding out the genetic difference between Minoxidil responders and non-responders will be a big step foward. (?)

 

[bridgeburn]

I hope so. Just had a blood test to check everything, waiting on results. will see how much decline there has been. I wonder if finding out the genetic difference between Minoxidil responders and non-responders will be a big step foward. (?)

Your response also depends on the amount of sulfotransferase levels you have, as that is needed to convert minoxidil into it's active form.. People with low levels of sulfotransferase don't respond well.

 

[Kev123]

My experience with minoxidil has always been that it slowed down hair loss. I started balding very young, unusually young and minoxidil always clearly and quickly slowed down the shedding in a few weeks, and then stops it in a few more weeks. I've never experienced accelerated hair loss on minoxidil. Minoxidil has never been ineffective for me. Although the foam has been pretty weak and results with it has been non-existent. Solution is the best for me personally.

 

[Kev123]

Your response also depends on the amount of sulfotransferase levels you have, as that is needed to convert minoxidil into it's active form.. People with low levels of sulfotransferase don't respond well.

Can someone theoretically raise their sulfotransferase levels and then minoxidil results would be better?

 

[hairblues]

My experience with minoxidil has always been that it slowed down hair loss. I started balding very young, unusually young and minoxidil always clearly and quickly slowed down the shedding in a few weeks, and then stops it in a few more weeks. I've never experienced accelerated hair loss on minoxidil. Minoxidil has never been ineffective for me. Although the foam has been pretty weak and results with it has been non-existent. Solution is the best for me personally.

did you ever have periodic shedding like at 9 months or a year out?

 

[Kev123]

did you ever have periodic shedding like at 9 months or a year out?

No, I wish I did, because from what i've read here over the years, sheds mean big regrowth is coming.

You know what did give me scary shedding? Onion juice. Wow, I used it for 2 weeks and dropped it because the shedding was fast and ridiculous. I don't know what it meant but I didn't want to keep using it to find out. It made my hairloss look so much worse. My hair went back to normal like 3-4 weeks after dropping it.

 

[hairblues]

No, I wish I did, because from what i've read here over the years, sheds mean big regrowth is coming.

You know what did give me scary shedding? Onion juice. Wow, I used it for 2 weeks and dropped it because the shedding was fast and ridiculous. I don't know what it meant but I didn't want to keep using it to find out. It made my hairloss look so much worse. My hair went back to normal like 3-4 weeks after dropping it.

I hope you are right about minoxidil and shed

Onion juice? Now I may have heard everything that is so weird.

 

[resu]

Effect of minoxidil on proliferation and apoptosis in dermal papilla cells of human hair follicle.
Han JH1, Kwon OS, Chung JH, Cho KH, Eun HC, Kim KH.
Author information

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Minoxidil has been widely used to treat androgenetic alopecia, but little is known about its pharmacological activity or about the identity of its target cells in hair follicles. We hypothesized that minoxidil has direct effects on the proliferation and apoptosis of dermal papilla cells (DPCs) of human hair follicle.

OBJECTIVE:
To elucidate the mechanism of topical minoxidil action in terms of stimulating hair growth.

METHODS:
We evaluated cell proliferations in cultured DPCs by 3-(4,5-dimethylthiazol-2-yl)-2,5-diphenyl tetrazolium bromide (MTT) and measured the expressions of extracellular signal-regulated kinase (ERK), Akt, Bcl-2, and Bax by Western blot. We also measured elongation of hair follicles in organ culture.

RESULTS:
Minoxidil significantly increased the proliferation of DPCs. The levels of ERK phosphorylation and of phosphorylated Akt increased significantly 1 h post-treatment; percentage increase of ERK phosphorylation was 287% at 0.1 microM and 351% at 1.0 microM of minoxidil, and that of Akt phosphorylation was 168% at 0.1 microM and 257% at 1.0 microM of minoxidil. 1.0 microM of minoxidil increased Bcl-2 expression over 150%, while 1.0 microM of minoxidil decreased Bax expression by more than 50%. Moreover, a significant elongation of individual hair follicles in organ culture was observed after adding minoxidil.

CONCLUSION:
Minoxidil promotes the survival of human DPCs by activating both ERK and Akt and by preventing cell death by increasing the ratio of Bcl-2/Bax. We suggest that minoxidil stimulates the growth of human hairs by prolonging anagen through these proliferative and anti-apoptotic effects on DPCs.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15033191

 

[Kev123]

I hope you are right about minoxidil and shed

Onion juice? Now I may have heard everything that is so weird.

I read a study on it on ncib and read people in forums saying it worked for them for AA and that it could work for hair loss in general. So I bought some onions and squeezed the juice out of them and put it in a clean kirkland's bottle and started using it. I immediately shed like crazy and only lasted 2 weeks before I quit. The shed was too much. I wondered if that was a good sign the onion juice was gonna work but I was too much of a pussy to keep using it. I started getting comments about my hair loss getting worse and chickened out of it.

 

[artursco]

Well have pretty not much to lose. Will try rogaine again and will do nizoral once a week. Just to see how things will go...

 

[bridgeburn]

Well have pretty not much to lose

Is that a hairloss pun?

 

[bridgeburn]

Can someone theoretically raise their sulfotransferase levels and then minoxidil results would be better?

yes, but I have no idea how to raise sulfotransferase though?
maybe usng minoxidil sulfate in combination with regular minoxidil could increase results, if you can find it and it's kept stable.

 

[Kev123]

yes, but I have no idea how to raise sulfotransferase though?
maybe usng minoxidil sulfate in combination with regular minoxidil could increase results, if you can find it and it's kept stable.

There may not even be a way to raise that, this study even says that raising minoxidil percentage will not help for those who are low in the enzyme. It says that the people low on that enzyme will not see the restorative effects of minoxidil. It makes sense, why minoxidil only slows down my hair loss and gives me little vellus hairs.

https://www.dermhairclinic.com/minoxidil-effectiveness-for-hair-restoration/

"Research has shown a correlation between high sulfotransferase levels and the effectiveness of Minoxidil. For example, those who do not experience the hair restorative effects of the drug have shown to have lower amounts of sulfotransferase.

Also, the production of this enzyme has been associated with chromosome 16p. Genetics basically dictate the production of proteins within individuals, which includes the enzymes of the body.

Therefore, if an individual does not have sufficient quantities of this minoxidil enzyme sulfotransferase, upgrading the concentration of Minoxidil from 2% to 5% will not help."

 

[bridgeburn]

There may not even be a way to raise that, this study even says that raising minoxidil percentage will not help for those who are low in the enzyme. It says that the people low on that enzyme will not see the restorative effects of minoxidil. It makes sense, why minoxidil only slows down my hair loss and gives me little vellus hairs.

https://www.dermhairclinic.com/minoxidil-effectiveness-for-hair-restoration/

"Research has shown a correlation between high sulfotransferase levels and the effectiveness of Minoxidil. For example, those who do not experience the hair restorative effects of the drug have shown to have lower amounts of sulfotransferase.

Also, the production of this enzyme has been associated with chromosome 16p. Genetics basically dictate the production of proteins within individuals, which includes the enzymes of the body.

Therefore, if an individual does not have sufficient quantities of this minoxidil enzyme sulfotransferase, upgrading the concentration of Minoxidil from 2% to 5% will not help."

f*** Genetics

 

[Kev123]

yes, but I have no idea how to raise sulfotransferase though?
maybe usng minoxidil sulfate in combination with regular minoxidil could increase results, if you can find it and it's kept stable.

Man I just read a little bit about min sulfate and I see what you mean, seems like this "would" be the solution for people with low sulfotransferase only if you can keep it stable. Minoxidil gets turned in minoxidil sulfate and that
s what causes hair regrowth. So theoretically if you can use sulfate itself and keep it stable it should give non-Rogaine responders the response they want. Sucks that no one knows how to keep it stable though.