Minoxidil = More Dht = Accelerated Hair Loss

[Kev123]

In this thread from another forum they're talking about what we're discussing and some new 2017 posts talk about min sulfate 5% + DMSO giving good results.

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t9694-why-minoxidil-might-not-work-pheno-sulfotransferase

 

[bridgeburn]

Man I just read a little bit about min sulfate and I see what you mean, seems like this "would" be the solution for people with low sulfotransferase only if you can keep it stable. Minoxidil gets turned in minoxidil sulfate and that
s what causes hair regrowth. So theoretically if you can use sulfate itself and keep it stable it should give non-Rogaine responders the response they want. Sucks that no one knows how to keep it stable though.

Polaris has 12% minoxidil sulfate product, and Indonesia sells topical RU58841 with 5% minoxidil sulfate.. can these be trusted ?? as this article claims minoxidil sulfate mixed into a topical will degrade in a few days --> https://www.minoxidilmax.com/minoxidil-sulfate-hair-regrowth
and if you buy minoxidil sulfate, need to make sure its not just minoxidil and sulfuric acid

In this thread from another forum they're talking about what we're discussing and some new 2017 posts talk about min sulfate 5% + DMSO giving good results.

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t9694-why-minoxidil-might-not-work-pheno-sulfotransferase

That is interesting. hmmm, they give examples on how to increase sulfates

 

[Kev123]

Polaris has 12% minoxidil sulfate product, and Indonesia sells topical RU58841 with 5% minoxidil sulfate.. can these be trusted ?? as this article claims minoxidil sulfate mixed into a topical will degrade in a few days --> https://www.minoxidilmax.com/minoxidil-sulfate-hair-regrowth
and if you buy minoxidil sulfate, need to make sure its not just minoxidil and sulfuric acid


That is interesting. hmmm, they give examples on how to increase sulfates

What also caught my attention was the minoxidil alternatives chart in that thread. It shows that proanthocyannidin from Grape and procyanidin from Apple gives better hair growth stimulation than minoxidil? But I don't understand the chart though, it shows placebo at 100%, minoxidil at a little above 150%, grape at 225% and apple at 300%.

How do you buy polaris products? I've heard of them a long time ago.

 

[bridgeburn]

What also caught my attention was the minoxidil alternatives chart in that thread. It shows that proanthocyannidin from Grape and procyanidin from Apple gives better hair growth stimulation than minoxidil? But I don't understand the chart though, it shows placebo at 100%, minoxidil at a little above 150%, grape at 225% and apple at 300%.

How do you buy polaris products? I've heard of them a long time ago.

It's Polish company, I think you have to contact them to order. But they don't sell to the United States because of our laws.

Apparently, that chart is from in vitro study on mice and human cells,. I found it here too http://www.applepoly.com/procyanidin-b-2/
there was also a positive human in vivo trial with topical procyanidin b2

 

[Kev123]

It's Polish company, I think you have to contact them to order. But they don't sell to the United States because of our laws.

Apparently, that chart is from in vitro study on mice and human cells,. I found it here too http://www.applepoly.com/procyanidin-b-2/
there was also a positive human in vivo trial with topical procyanidin b2

Thanks for the link.

Hmm, that's very interesting. Why do you think it never got any attention?

Look at this:

Two more clinical trials and a total of seven published studies have now confirmed the surprising hair growth-promoting effects of apple procyanidins. Here is a summary of those findings:

• 
  Total Number of Hairs: Significantly Increased
  
  
• Total Number of Terminal Hairs: Significantly Greater
  
  
• Increase in Hair Diameter: 78.9% Positive
  
  
• Ratio of Thicker (terminal) Hairs: Significantly Higher
  
  
• Compared to Minoxidil: Up to 200% Better
  
  
• Hair Follicle Activation: Intensive

This is weird if it truly does work as they say. They even have clinical photographic evidence BUT it appears that the website is probably exaggerating results, as I can see in the bottom of the page they are selling something.

BTW sorry I know this belongs in alternative treatments.

 

[bridgeburn]

Thanks for the link.

Hmm, that's very interesting. Why do you think it never got any attention?

Look at this:

Two more clinical trials and a total of seven published studies have now confirmed the surprising hair growth-promoting effects of apple procyanidins. Here is a summary of those findings:

• 
  Total Number of Hairs: Significantly Increased
  
  
• Total Number of Terminal Hairs: Significantly Greater
  
  
• Increase in Hair Diameter: 78.9% Positive
  
  
• Ratio of Thicker (terminal) Hairs: Significantly Higher
  
  
• Compared to Minoxidil: Up to 200% Better
  
  
• Hair Follicle Activation: Intensive

This is weird if it truly does work as they say. They even have clinical photographic evidence BUT it appears that the website is probably exaggerating results, as I can see in the bottom of the page they are selling something.

BTW sorry I know this belongs in alternative treatments.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11841365
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17168871

http://www.applepolyphenols.com/studies/hairgrowth.htm

It certainly got my attention, The websites selling something don't look very legit to me.. but the studies they are referencing are real, happened in Japan and are published in medical journals.. but they seem to glorifying them pretty damn hard to sell their product, hahaha
I have a green apple peel supplement, green apple peels are a good source of Procyanidin b2, but I don't know of any one selling the pure compound, procyanidinb2.. wish someone would.
I think Polaris has a high dose minoxidil with procyanidinb2 in it.

 

[zarazakka]

long term and alone, maybe. look at this chart on this article --> https://www.hairlosstalk.com/news/education/rogaine-long-term/
at the 48 week period the 5% minoxidil group is just below the untreated group..

I think minoxidil is a helpful against hairloss cause it counteracts the negative telogen extending effects of male hormones, by reducing TGFB, for example.

but it doesn't stop DHT from changing gene transcription, so eventually the bald will catch up, But a combination works well synergetically

Sorry but you completely mis-read the chart. The line you are referring to is the 'placebo' line, which at 48 weeks is slightly below untreated. Both 2% and 5% minoxidil are significantly above baseline, and of course placebo/untreated.

 

[jh94]

A universal trait of male pattern baldness sufferers is scalp calcification (tight oily scalp skin) which causes buildup of waste and DHT around hair follicles.

minoxidil increasing blood flow could = better flow / waste removal while the drug remains effective

finasteride obviously reduces the DHT and may over time reduce calcification (has this been studied)?

 

[bridgeburn]

Sorry but you completely mis-read the chart. The line you are referring to is the 'placebo' line, which at 48 weeks is slightly below untreated. Both 2% and 5% minoxidil are significantly above baseline, and of course placebo/untreated.

not sure what you mean, the line says mean percent change and at the very end all groups are below 0.

 

[zarazakka]

not sure what you mean, the line says mean percent change and at the very end all groups are below 0.

Then you're talking at 120 weeks not 48, but at 96 weeks all treatment was stopped, it doesn't mention that on that page, but it's a well known study. The main callout of the study is that minoxidil leads to a quick increase in hair growth, and then from that higher level, the mean % change in hair decreases at the same speed as untreated groups, but you always have more hair. Then when you stop treatment, within 14 weeks your hair will quickly revert to where it would be had you not taken treatment at all, that is the significance of the post 96 week section.

The name of the study is in the article I'm pretty sure, look up the full study if you don't believe me.

 

[bridgeburn]

Then you're talking at 120 weeks not 48, but at 96 weeks all treatment was stopped, it doesn't mention that on that page, but it's a well known study. The main callout of the study is that minoxidil leads to a quick increase in hair growth, and then from that higher level, the mean % change in hair decreases at the same speed as untreated groups, but you always have more hair. Then when you stop treatment, within 14 weeks your hair will quickly revert to where it would be had you not taken treatment at all, that is the significance of the post 96 week section.

The name of the study is in the article I'm pretty sure, look up the full study if you don't believe me.

yeah you're right,
I sware the chart I saw at first was different, for some reason showed a cut off at 48 weeks?? maybe i hallucinated or they corrected it