More Childless Men: Women Do Not Want Children With Low-status Men

[IdealForehead]

The first three jaw surgeries weren't enough? Aren't you now in the diminishing returns 20% bracket?

As someone who suffered chronic pain for several years, man, it really makes your life sh*t; so do weigh that in. I really wouldn't like to have that again.

The first set was a 3-in-one procedure. It was all done in one ~6 hour operation. I've had plenty of years of chronic pain as well for unrelated reasons which are now mostly resolved, so I also know what I'd be getting if it went wrong.

My face/jaws/bite are still very out of balance. Not so much you would "notice" or say I look "wrong". No one stares at me. I function normally in life. But my condition still could be considerably improved, at least by 1 point facial looks, which could get me to the average range.

For all the revision I'm debating, the timeline would be SARPE (1-3 hour procedure in office) > braces for 9 months > Revision LF1 & BSSO (single operation ~6 hours) > one year later Korean jawline revision. It's a lot of work but I'm still leaning towards doing it. Already met a surgeon who said he turns down a lot of revision work but would gladly offer it to me as he can see there are still clearly alignment issues, etc.

Worse case scenario if it goes poorly and I do end up with an intolerable outcome (probably 1-2% risk), I figure I can always off myself.

Risks or not, I'm inclined to still rather try than do nothing. Probably will wait for my forehead reduction to finish then decide then based on how much improvement that provides me.

In my experience, life is brutal, full of horrible choices, and it never gets easier.

 

[blackg]

Fools resort to hatred or denial to make sense of the world. Face the world and it will shine back at you in glorious color.

But not if you're NW4.

 

[IdealForehead]

So what do you suggest for the other 75% of us? I've been short and ugly my whole life and will be until I die. Any suggestions?

Still wondering @WhitePolarBear. What do you suggest for anyone who isn't an above average white guy or a top 10% minority?

Suicide? LDAR? Paying women to pretend they care? Open to suggestion.

What would you do?

 

[IdealForehead]

I'm not in the top 10% and I get by fine. But I'm in the top 1% regarding height so that helps... And possibly top 20% when it comes to my body, the vast majority of men in my country have never set foot in a gym so this was easy to achieve in only a year of lifting.

And bottom 10% when it comes to hair compared to the other men my age. You don't need to be Chad to do reasonably well in your romantic life.

I'd need to see your picture + your height to be able to give you genuine advice. It will stay confidential of course.

If you really don't make the cut after looksmaxing as much as you can and really making an effort to try to date and get into a relationship, then you should invest in your friends, your job and your hobbies.

The next 20 years of my life and going to be quite hard since I'll get married and have children. If you don't have that, life is definitely much easier, but unfortunately for you, it will feel less meaningful I guess.

But think about all the freedom you'll gain, the question that remains is what you're going to do with it. Hopefully not LDAR.

To clarify, I said:

- Above average WHITE GUY
OR
- Top 10% MINORITY

As a white guy you definitely don't have to be top 10%. Just above average. Or even average with a few other things going for you.

Women are very racist, which works strongly to white guys' favors.

 

[mecevik]

So what do you suggest for the other 75% of us? I've been short and ugly my whole life and will be until I die. Any suggestions?

May I ask you how tall you are?

 

[IdealForehead]

May I ask you how tall you are?

5'7.5"

Bought some lift shoes from tallmenshoes.com once which made me around 5'9" or so. Went out to some bars/clubs and tried to talk to girls with them. They still looked at me and treated me like a monster/rapist. And I'm a very friendly, normal, sociable person. When I did speed dating, all the girls I talked to were laughing, engaged, and having fun. As are most people I meet.

But if I try talking to a girl in a bar/club I can't get past the first sentence. They just look at you with disgust and try to turn away. It's f*****g depressing. Online I get ignored. And yeah, the few inches of height alone obviously doesn't matter that much. It's sum of the whole parts.

Trying to get dates is perhaps the most depressing thing in life. I am going out with a girl I met at speed dating this weekend, so I am I suppose not completely without options, but she's fat and I'm just doing it because she asked me first, seems nice, and I don't want to be the same a**h** that girls are to me. But I have no interest in fat girls, so I will just be polite, have some fun conversation, enjoy our dinner, and that will be that.

Beggars can't be choosers, they say, but I'd rather be alone than accept the only girls I can match to in any way are going to be fat and gross. The whole thing's a joke really. Life is a joke. But not a very funny one.

Hair loss is a much easier problem to solve in my opinion.

 

[Stanx22]

5'7.5"

Bought some lift shoes from tallmenshoes.com once which made me around 5'9" or so. Went out to some bars/clubs and tried to talk to girls with them. They still looked at me and treated me like a monster/rapist. And I'm a very friendly, normal, sociable person. When I did speed dating, all the girls I talked to were laughing, engaged, and having fun. As are most people I meet.

But if I try talking to a girl in a bar/club I can't get past the first sentence. They just look at you with disgust and try to turn away. It's f*****g depressing. Online I get ignored. And yeah, the few inches of height alone obviously doesn't matter that much. It's sum of the whole parts.

Trying to get dates is perhaps the most depressing thing in life. I am going out with a girl I met at speed dating this weekend, so I am I suppose not completely without options, but she's fat and I'm just doing it because she asked me first, seems nice, and I don't want to be the same a**h** that girls are to me. But I have no interest in fat girls, so I will just be polite, have some fun conversation, enjoy our dinner, and that will be that.

Beggars can't be choosers, they say, but I'd rather be alone than accept the only girls I can match to in any way are going to be fat and gross. The whole thing's a joke really. Life is a joke. But not a very funny one.

Hair loss is a much easier problem to solve in my opinion.

This world is rotten and it needs to be destroyed for no more pain and suffering.

 

[IdealForehead]

You don't really need to ask me for advice.

Looksmax and truly put yourself on the market, and the market will decide.

If nothing happens despite your best efforts, it's time to focus your energy on something else than women.

Already did that. And all it's led me down is a spiral of hopelessness where I have to force myself to do anything and just want to give up in life.

The one nice thing on cyproterone was it killed my sex drive to the point that I didn't think about it so much. But it also made me incredibly depressed and would have been unhealthy long term.

Otherwise we are wired as men with a drive for sex and affection from women that cannot simply be turned off. That's why all the MGTOW guys are angry all the time and have to spend hours a day posting about their philosophies to "maintain the lie" that they can truly live that way and be happy.

Hobbies, work, "fun" - it all becomes relatively meaningless when you're considered human trash by the members of the opposite gender you would like, and that's all you can eventually think about.

Think I'm gonna just go get my face sawed apart again and see if when they piece me back together this time I'll get a better life. The last time, even though it was only a moderately good result, certainly made a big difference.

My life is clearly circling the drain over this anyway. May as well try.

 

[IdealForehead]

This world is rotten and it needs to be destroyed for no more pain and suffering.

Nothing wrong with the world. The world will be what it is long after you and I are gone.

Just something wrong with being born wrong within it.

Pain and suffering are normal. Some people have to be ugly in order for beautiful people to get the privilege of being "beautiful". Same for height. Same for race. Same for everything.

Some people must necessarily suffer in order for others to "have it well".

Just how it goes.

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

5'7.5"

Bought some lift shoes from tallmenshoes.com once which made me around 5'9" or so. Went out to some bars/clubs and tried to talk to girls with them. They still looked at me and treated me like a monster/rapist. And I'm a very friendly, normal, sociable person. When I did speed dating, all the girls I talked to were laughing, engaged, and having fun. As are most people I meet.

But if I try talking to a girl in a bar/club I can't get past the first sentence. They just look at you with disgust and try to turn away. It's f*****g depressing. Online I get ignored. And yeah, the few inches of height alone obviously doesn't matter that much. It's sum of the whole parts.

Trying to get dates is perhaps the most depressing thing in life. I am going out with a girl I met at speed dating this weekend, so I am I suppose not completely without options, but she's fat and I'm just doing it because she asked me first, seems nice, and I don't want to be the same a**h** that girls are to me. But I have no interest in fat girls, so I will just be polite, have some fun conversation, enjoy our dinner, and that will be that.

Beggars can't be choosers, they say, but I'd rather be alone than accept the only girls I can match to in any way are going to be fat and gross. The whole thing's a joke really. Life is a joke. But not a very funny one.

Hair loss is a much easier problem to solve in my opinion.

I would not be as much concern by your height, i'm 5'10 = 178cm (not sure about retard feet unit system conversion but sure of 178cm) and it never bothers me to get dates and a sexual life, your problem must be elsewhere.

Reading all your posts, it's not hair either, what's your current Norwood again ?

5'7.5" is not that crippling, sure you're not tall, but not as short as being incel for life because of it.
May i ask who are you calling fat and gross girls ? Just to be sure of your standards, maybe post a pic of a look alike fat gross girl

 

[Stanx22]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel

Seriously man, see a psychologist, for your own good and to make sure that another terrorist attack doesn't take place in your country.

Can't you see the way this world works ? How humans behave ? There's nothing in this world but hate.

Everyone hate others, every race, every religion, wars are everywhere, 1 million people commit suicide every year or so, killing, raping, violence, terrorism, etc are everywhere and everyday.

Humans kill millions of each others in just a single war.

People are forced to suffer forever for something out of there control like genetics for example.

You don't see it because you have a luxurious life, but this world is ugly and cruel and you'll know it when you experience it.

 

[IdealForehead]

I don't think you're as ugly as you think you are.

But how could I find out, you won't send me your picture.

If you were truly as hopeless as you say you are, why would you give a f*** about showing me your face?

Something doesn't add up like with the other guys who said that they wanted to kill themselves.

"I want to die! What's that? Posting my picture on the internet? No way man! My reputation!"

I have never once posted my face on a web forum except once a jaw surgery forum when I was asking what people thought about a revision. Otherwise, I have no interest, as I write a lot of very personal things online, I don't have a "generic" looking face, and I don't want people associating anything I say online with my real life. If I was sharing pictures of any kind, I would not feel free to say any of the stuff I've said. And that has more value for me.

As for my face, as you said, the market decides. If I try talking to a girl in a bar or club no different than one of my better looking friends, and girls smile at him, while looking uncomfortable and turning away to me, the market has decided. If I make a Tinder/POF with my best pictures from travelling the world, and doing interesting things, and I get zero matches or a max 1/30-40 cursory reply rate, the market has decided.

I PM'd my profile to a few people on Reddit who asked me (violated my usual protocol because I don't post sensitive things on Reddit) and they all said it "looked good" and "they couldn't understand why I wasn't getting matches".

It doesn't really matter what other guys or women on an Internet forum think. All that matters is what a girl does in her own privacy when she's confronted with the choice - to give him a chance or not to give him a chance?

You don't have to be a freakshow to fall short on that question. Women's standards are generally very high, and if you're physically below average in every parameter, you can still look "normal" while being rejected by 97-99%+ of women on sight.

 

[IdealForehead]

Can't you see the way this world works ? How humans behave ? There's nothing in this world but hate.

Everyone hate others, every race, every religion, wars are everywhere, 1 million people commit suicide every year or so, killing, raping, violence, terrorism, etc are everywhere and everyday. Humans kill millions of each others in just a single war.

People are forced to suffer forever for something out of there control like genetics for example.

You don't see it because you have a luxurious life, but this world is ugly and cruel and you'll know it when you experience it.

Absolutely I agree with you Stanx. Life is ugly and cruel to those of us who aren't living the privileged life. But so what? That doesn't mean it's your responsibility to fix or change that. Life has always been this way. And it always will be. You need to accept it and let it go. Just try to find a way to survive your own life. That's what I'm doing anyway. It's not easy of course.

 

[Stanx22]

Absolutely I agree with you Stanx. Life is ugly and cruel to those of us who aren't living the privileged life. But so what? That doesn't mean it's your responsibility to fix or change that. Life has always been this way. And it always will be. You need to accept it and let it go. Just try to find a way to survive your own life. That's what I'm doing anyway. It's not easy of course.

It's not my responsibility and i won't do anything.

Killing hundreds of people will do nothing but increase the suffering and pain.

 

[Stanx22]

No, no, I don't see that.

Life is suffering and it's up to you to reduce your own suffering.

We all have our crosses to bear, obviously, no matter our advantages.

I work hard to make sure that my life and the life the people who are close to me are not hell.

And most of them try to do the same, it creates a positive feedback loop.

That's how the world works for some people, that's what make them shift their behavior towards the common good.

And I love all those people despite their flaws and no matter their race (need I remind you that my best friend is Arab and Muslim).

This was already posted but:

And remember that it's people with your current mindset that go to war, because they feel that they are victims and that the perceived perpetrator has to pay. So for you it would be the whole world I guess?

You're a tall, white, attractive, technically fullhead young male from a first world country.

I won't talk about genetics and sh*t now, let's just talk about the first world country you live in.

As someone who lives in a third world trash country before i had moved away from my old house, i saw young people killing each others every week for no reason.

I saw people living in a literal dirt because they have no money to buy something to live in.

I saw people getting killed everyday when they try to demonstrate because they want to live a decent life.

I saw people getting tortured to death in prison for no reason at all.

All the countries around me are war-zones and my country is full of refugees who live in the streets because they lost their home and money and family.

That's just a brief about what happens in a third world country and how peopld are treated.

First world countries have much better lives, but their men suffer a lifetime of loneliness because they don't have brad pitt looks and they also caused a lot of countries pain and suffering because they were lusting for resources (i don't blame you or the normal people for it because you had no control over it).

So this is the world we live in.

This is how the greatest species do and behave, ah btw, did i forget to mention what humans do to animals and how they led them to extinction?

I could go on for hours about this and can really show you the real darkness in this world, and that me, and other people are just a result of this darkness.

 

[IdealForehead]

No, no, I don't see that.

Life is suffering and it's up to you to reduce your own suffering.

We all have our crosses to bear, obviously, no matter our advantages.

I work hard to make sure that my life and the life the people who are close to me are not hell.

And most of them try to do the same, it creates a positive feedback loop.

That's how the world works for some people, that's what make them shift their behavior towards the common good.

And I love all those people despite their flaws and no matter their race (need I remind you that my best friend is Arab and Muslim).

This was already posted but:

And remember that it's people with your current mindset that go to war, because they feel that they are victims and that the perceived perpetrator has to pay. So you'd have to go to war against whole world I guess?

Specifically regarding women which is the subject of this thread you have not had to work for any of the things that have made women easy for you your whole life.

I was born with high IQ. I breezed through multiple high level degrees because of it and now get highly paid for it.

That was random chance. Yes I still had to "work" during school but someone else could not have done the same thing. I did not do anything to "deserve" it.

People who try to "own" their good luck as if it's something they earned often just become incredibly insulting. I didn't "earn" being intelligent any more than you "earned" being a physical stereotypical Chad.

You are coasting on your good fortune while sounding like you are looking down at your nose at people who are struggling because they were born with less and therefore can't "reduce their suffering" as you have.

You would never see me tell a person with low IQ that they just need to work harder and they won't suffer from it. That would be cruel and insensitive. It doesn't work that way.

Life is a lottery full of winners and losers. You got lucky physically same as I did with my mind. That's all.

 

[Toccata]

Some people must necessarily suffer in order for others to "have it well".

You may actually have it well and just not know it yet—it's bad news for Chad and Stacy:

put yourself on the market and the market will decide.

The market is changing hands.

So what do you suggest for the other 75% of us? I've been short and ugly my whole life and will be until I die. Any suggestions?

Cope. And avoid the gonorrhea.

 

[IdealForehead]

You may actually have it well and just not know it yet—it's bad news for Chad and Stacy:
View attachment 71477
View attachment 71478

The market is changing hands.

View attachment 71479
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Cope?
View attachment 71481

I'm currently coping on life support with Gear VR p**rn. I thought very seriously about getting a sex doll at one time. Decided against it as I thought the very principle of owning it would make me more depressed. 50/50 now if I should still get one. Thoughts?

Definitely if cute animatronic AI sex dolls become broadly available in the next 5 years that would solve the problem but it will likely be much longer away than that.

Still its a nice thought. One day we can just retreat into our own synthetic fantasy lives where everyone can be a winner.

 

[countjulian]

What do you guys think of designer babies? What if one day everyone could be a tall full head with a perfect jaw and killer eyes? I used to be against it but now I am totally for it. It would be immoral to have the power to save future children from the suffering we're all going through and not do anything.

 

[Toccata]

When your sex robot realizes you're going bald: