New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[ganonford]

I know I might get flak for bringing this up now, but i did actually attempt to thoroughly look for an answer.
I just purchased a dermaroller 1.5 off amazon, plan on using it but does it 100% require minoxidil application after for results?
(I ask because I have used rogaine before and i experienced really black eyes)

Some say it does, some say it does not. That is because Cotsarelis himself cited an study (made deacades ago) where they tried wounding without minoxidil, and the results where pretty poor. They were not able to get more than just vellus hair.

 

[closetmetrosexual]

anyone else feel their scalp pulse after DRing?

I think we all do.

 

[Benjamin36]

Squeegee has suggested using B12 and castor oil as substitute. You can find his post a few pages ago. That is if you really don't want to use minoxidil. And please tell us your results; I'd like to stop minoxidil at some point and try that.

I'm pretty sure that was princessrambo

 

[closetmetrosexual]

Here's my super short review of the 1080 needle roller.

Previously, I rolled with a 1.5mm 192 needle roller. The pain was unbearable for me.
I even used it with "Dr.Numb" numbing cream. I still was wailing uncontrollably. :$

Yesterday, I rolled with my new 1.5mm 1080 needle roller.
Wow! What a difference. I did not use numbing cream, and yet the pain was barely there.
I could easily roll without tearing up.
And, obviously, the whole session took a lot less time, since I could cover more ground (scalp) in less time. The roller is about twice as wide (if not more) as the 192 needle roller.

There is one downside to this roller, though.
I had to press really, really hard to draw blood. And even when I pressed as hard as I could, I never saw as much blood as with the 192 needle roller.

I immediately ordered a 2.0mm 1080 needle roller.
I hope this will mean I can dig in deeper, as I clearly was not getting in all the way with the needles yesterday.

If the 2.0mm isn't enough, I will go for the 2.5mm.

 

[psyhotria]

I'm pretty sure that was princessrambo

That's right: http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...hts-comments?p=1141225&viewfull=1#post1141225

 

[Jlyncher]

Good going, man! What's your dermarolling regimen (weeks use, roller type, etc)?

Third session yesterday evening. Loads more blood dots and redness afterwards, felt much more satisfying.

I'm wondering, incidentally, if the body releases endorphins or something during rolling, as by the end of a session it doesn't feel too bad, despite being really painful to start with, in fact it feels oddly addictive. :woot:

13 weeks in, 192 ct, 1.5mm, bloody. And yeah, I always tip well. She's friendly and always does a good job.


I've noticed this as well. Pain tolerance is way, way up by the end of the session, and the veins in my arms are popping like I just left the gym.

 

[squeegee]

 

[cthulhu2.0]

Squeegee, could you tell me what this is and how you know it isn't a scam? I apologize if I'm a bit skeptical

 

[princessRambo]

Squeegee, could you tell me what this is and how you know it isn't a scam? I apologize if I'm a bit skeptical

FGF7 is already increased 160 times during wound healing, I don't see how adding more of it will make a difference... if it was FGF9 on the other hand :hmmm:...

 

[squeegee]

FGF7 is already increased 160 times during wound healing, I don't see how adding more of it will make a difference... if it was FGF9 on the other hand :hmmm:...

More is never enough.:salut: derma roller+topical KGF7 for optimal absoption.

- - - Updated - - -

When administered subcutaneously, rKGF induced the most extensive hair growth at the sites of injection.

Keratinocyte growth factor is an important endogenous mediator of hair follicle growth, development, and differentiation. Normalization of the nu/nu follicular differentiation defect and amelioration of chemotherapy-induced alopecia.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1869891/

 

[closetmetrosexual]

More is never enough.:salut: derma roller+topical KGF7 for optimal absoption.

- - - Updated - - -

When administered subcutaneously, rKGF induced the most extensive hair growth at the sites of injection.

Keratinocyte growth factor is an important endogenous mediator of hair follicle growth, development, and differentiation. Normalization of the nu/nu follicular differentiation defect and amelioration of chemotherapy-induced alopecia.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1869891/

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive.

Considering mixing it into my Retin-A cream and applying that directly after rolling. (will get messy with all that blood)

Seems there's little sense in applying this stuff without rolling, huh?

 

[princessRambo]

The role of anti-inflammatories in wound healing

This has been asked and debated many times before, whether one should use anti-inflammatories or not early in wound healing, I personally advocated against using them in the first few days post wounding because as I have stated, I don't know what the role would be and that it could interfere with the healing process. A study posted by a user here a while back (shivers20) got me intrigued and I dig a little bit of digging into the matter...

http://www.triomeetingposters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/115.pdf

Normal wound healing leads to scar formation (fibrotic healing). The phenomenon of scarless fetal healing has shown that healing can occur without exuberant inflammation and by the activity offibroblasts with a regenerative phenotype. We propose to mimic this phenomenon in adult wounds by using agents that reduce inflammation and by controlling the selection, recruitment and collagen synthesis of fibroblasts in the wound. Alone or together, these approaches should reduce collagen production and scar formation, and result in more regenerative healing.

These results demonstrate that early, short-term treatment with anti-inflammatory agents can attenuate the wound inflammatory response with downstream effects on healing. Nimesulide andProstaglandin E2 (PGE2) each have specific and potentially useful effects on the healing process. The finding that Nimesulide- and PGE2 treated wounds have less collagen deposition with higher regain of tensile strength supports our premise that controlled modulation of inflammation can decrease fibrosis without impeding the healing process

The study above was trying to achieve scarless wound healing and they used nimesulide a strong anti-inflammatory agent (cox 2 inhibitor) along with PGE2.

Here is a good review about some studies hitting at this:

http://regenerationinnature.wordpress.com/tag/collagen/

In many non-regenerative models wound healing is followed by the formation of a fibrotic scar that blocks further regeneration, scar-free wound healing is a rather conserved feature in regeneration-competent species. It is known for example that, in some contexts, the mammalian embryo is able to heal wounds without forming a fibrotic scar and, consequently, allowing a functional regeneration. During mammalian foetal development this capacity of scarless wound healing is lost as the immune system develops. Some studies have reported that the inhibition of anti-inflammatory factors in mice embryos impairs their capacity to heal wounds without making a fibrotic scar.

The first study confirmed these claims by using a cox 2 inhibitor

Treatments were given daily on the day of wounding and for the next 3 days.

In most mammals including humans it seems we have very little regeneration ability, here is the difference between tissue repair and tissue regeneration:

Repair refers to the physiologic adaptation of an organ after injury in an effort to re-establish continuity without regards to exact replacement of lost/damaged tissue. True tissue regeneration refers to the replacement of lost/damaged tissue with an ‘exact’ copy, such that both morphology and functionality are completely restored

Interestingly, fundamental conditions required for tissue regeneration often oppose conditions that favor efficient wound repair, including inhibition of (1) platelet activation, (2) inflammatory response, and (3) wound contraction.[SUP][1][/SUP]

So what does that all mean for using an anti-inflammatory? If it reduces fibrosis and promotes scareless wound healing, it seems to be a good thing, but the remaining question is then, do anti-inflammatories inhibit production of growth factors necessary for hair growth? I have no idea, yet...

http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.org/content/121/13/2381

During the inflammatory phase, the recruitment of neutrophils, macrophages, and mast cells highlights the need for a robust immune response to ward off potential infections. Macrophages not only mediate this inflammation, but are also implicated in the guidance of the angiogenic response,[SUP]3[/SUP] part of the subsequent proliferative phase. However, there is a great deal of speculation as to the mechanisms underlying the macrophage contribution to angiogenesis; indeed, there is not even a consensus in the literature on whether macrophages are pro-angiogenic,[SUP]4,5[/SUP]anti-angiogenic,[SUP]6[/SUP] or not influential at all.[SUP]7[/SUP]

The question then becomes whether the beneficial growth factors for our hair are only released during the inflammatory phase... Like I said, I ain't got a clue ... even these researchers don't seem to have a consensus on general wound healing mechanisms...Just some food for thought...

 

[squeegee]

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive.

Considering mixing it into my Retin-A cream and applying that directly after rolling. (will get messy with all that blood)

Seems there's little sense in applying this stuff without rolling, huh?

they don't want anything acidic mixed with it..

 

[karankaran]

I was thinking of doing derma roller , everything including alcohol,, derma roller, numbing cream has come but i have been taking certain oral supplements in the last 1-2 month , also using nizoral for one month and i just compared a pic of today with one month back and the density has definitely increased...now i am confused about going ahead with DRing ,, i feel i can just use minoxidil instead for the first 3 months and see the result...on the other hand, i feel DRing the real deal!!.... coz if i do DRing i might have to let go of nizoral... damn this confusion!

 

[Agahi]

I DR 1/week and use nizoral everyday and have had definite good progress.

 

[TNTS]

Hey guys, take a look at this patent about Vitamin B12.

http://www.google.com/patents/WO2007061169A1?cl=en

 

[bhobho]

I DR 1/week and use nizoral everyday and have had definite good progress.

-How long?
-Do you have any pics?

 

[Agahi]

Just did my 6th roll. No pics, im in a barracks with a shared bathroom for 200 guys and its hard enough rolling and not having someone see lol. For a mental image imagine having what looks like 2 day beard stubble starting at nw2.5-3ish hairline going down to nw1ish area.

 

[princessRambo]

Hey guys, take a look at this patent about Vitamin B12.

http://www.google.com/patents/WO2007061169A1?cl=en

Thanks for the link, the patent confirms what we have discussed before.. that the addition of B12 makes pyrimidine oxide derivatives like triaminodil, minoxidil, etc. act like hair growth stimulants on steroids

 

[Justeone]

Hey guys , just joined this forum ... been a long time user of the bald truth ..but I had to leave there once I found this site . Thank god this place exists. OK NOW FOR THE DERMAROLLING I just rolled for my first time ever... with a 1.0 mm roller until there was a lot of blood spots all over my head ... So is that enough rolling for one week ? Also what do you think about waiting the full 24 hours before applying minoxidil? Is that necessary or can we wait about 8 hours and go ahead? AND! I just read about the b12 into minoxidil thing...So what you are saying is just take some(5)b12 1000mg pills and crush em up and add to a full liquid bottle of minoxidil? Sounds very interesting ! I love the work you guys have put into this thread...I for one appreciate it and that's why I even joined the forum . Thanks!!