New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?
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Chromeo
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It's not really a case of "discontinuing" the study. The parameters are set at the beginning of the trial - it will be a 12 week study. After 3 months, those are your results.
Obviously all of us will be continuing on past that 3 month mark, particularly if the results continue to impress. I'm really pleased with things so far.
Obviously all of us will be continuing on past that 3 month mark, particularly if the results continue to impress. I'm really pleased with things so far.
Jlyncher
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Are you seeing some results Chromeo?
Chromeo
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Yes, I would have to say so. The hairs are appearing thicker and blacker, and they also appear to be growing far quicker than they did before. The hairs coming through the scalp also appear to be thicker and healthier than previous hairs. I'm seeing less of the wispy miniaturised hairs and coverage overall seems better, after just this short period of time. I don't want to get carried away but this seems to be something that works. Has anyone else seen any positive changes so far? I have been rolling for a month now with the 1.5mm needles. I've got a loooong way to go, but if things continue this way, I have to say I am very optimistic.
I don't know, I am pretty far gone and it appears to be working. I would be very tempted to give this a go, even if I were an NW7 or whatever. Nothing to lose, really.
odalbak
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Had my first dermarolling session yesterday for like 7 minutes, with 192 1.5mm needles fully entering the skin. On the scalp, at least mine, skin is very hardened and thin (I'm NW3 Vertex). I don't think rolling fast with the dermaroller is the right way. In my experience, best way to get each needle fully inside the skin is to roll very very slowly and push really hard. Erythema as such doesn't mean much since you can get that reaction just by scratching your skin fast with your nails. It's meaningless. Bloodshed as such is also meaningless. You need to push not only hard but fully on your tool, until you can't go further deep, and then you see large red holes in the skin. The Indian scientist answered a guy at BTT saying "The level of pain from microneedling is very mild", so I really think they were not digging real 1.5mm deep holes in the skin, or we don't have the same notion of pain at all. So I think I may buy a 0.75mm instead but I'll push the needles fully (not like in the Indian study), and because the pain will be milder next week I'll be able to have longer sessions and cover the scalp with a higher number of holes.
Kirby
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Now convinced this is a bogus study, results too good to be realistic, and the results photos are basically a combover (Patient 1) and a growover with adjusted light conditions and concealer (Patient 2). The study is advertorial for an Indian clinic, nothing more or less.
odalbak
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Something I find strange about it is they say patients were shaved in order to apply betadine and assess efficacy, but when you look at the post treatment photos, patients have long hair… So I hope the after pictures were taken long after the study, but then why?
On the other hand, PrettyFly83 on boldtroothtawk is having impressive results already and he's not advertising anything…
On the other hand, PrettyFly83 on boldtroothtawk is having impressive results already and he's not advertising anything…
Chromeo
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@chromeo, thanks for sharing hopefully we can all have a good assessment at 6-8 weeks
No worries, thanks to you too for a lot of interesting posts on this thread. Good luck you and everyone else trying this, fingers crossed.
That guy's results really got me interested in this. I mean, it's natural that people are going to doubt these studies when they are published and make claims that the results are bogus, the pictures are doctored, the whole thing is untrustworthy....that's their opinion. I was impressed by the study and found it to appear legit. When I saw PrettyFly83's photos I was convinced that there really is something to this. He's just a regular Joe who tried it out and you can definitely see new growth there on a really bald scalp.
For anyone who hasn't seen PrettyFly83's photos, you can check them out over here:
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/library/?sort=3&page=1
An update from me: The non-minoxidil group commenced trials today
Derma roller got delivered today, two days earlier. Only 1.0 mm needle size as I wanna work my way up - but still do it properly. I just completed my first rolling session, and played around with parameters.
As Odalbak wrote, going fast doesnt do ****. You need to go slow, and apply constant pressure. I first tried out going fast, but that only made the area red-pinkish - the punch holes were just not deep enough I guess. So I went all in, and now my scalp is on fire. A lot of blood drops actually appeared, but the pain level is okay. You get used to it.
It's also crucial to relocate the roller often, to hit as many spots as possible, "to increase the resolution" so to say. Get it finer, so the area is covered.
As I only have a 1.0 mm one, I'll roll once a week for now. When I feel like it, I'll switch to 1.5 mm, but given how much blood I got in my temples right now, 1.5 mm + considerable pressure will be the limit for a while.
One hint in terms of desinfectant: Go to a real pharmacy, i.e., those that still mix stuff themselves. They have hospital desinfectant alcohol, and sell it quite cheap. Got half a litre for 7$.
Derma roller got delivered today, two days earlier. Only 1.0 mm needle size as I wanna work my way up - but still do it properly. I just completed my first rolling session, and played around with parameters.
As Odalbak wrote, going fast doesnt do ****. You need to go slow, and apply constant pressure. I first tried out going fast, but that only made the area red-pinkish - the punch holes were just not deep enough I guess. So I went all in, and now my scalp is on fire. A lot of blood drops actually appeared, but the pain level is okay. You get used to it.
It's also crucial to relocate the roller often, to hit as many spots as possible, "to increase the resolution" so to say. Get it finer, so the area is covered.
As I only have a 1.0 mm one, I'll roll once a week for now. When I feel like it, I'll switch to 1.5 mm, but given how much blood I got in my temples right now, 1.5 mm + considerable pressure will be the limit for a while.
One hint in terms of desinfectant: Go to a real pharmacy, i.e., those that still mix stuff themselves. They have hospital desinfectant alcohol, and sell it quite cheap. Got half a litre for 7$.
Sparky4444
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..you know, I wonder if there is a link between this and what The ********* dude was referring to when he was talking about Dr. Wesley's scarless FUE technique...In the video, he said "based on what I saw, and Dr. Wesley has not gone to lab with this, but based on what I saw this technique could lead to regeneration in the donor area"...not a direct quote...
...it will be really interesting when Wesley presents this in October...but I'm guessing that this extreme dermarolling thing may be applicable somehow to the scarless FUE technique....
...it will be really interesting when Wesley presents this in October...but I'm guessing that this extreme dermarolling thing may be applicable somehow to the scarless FUE technique....
squeegee
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Update on PrettyFly83's results:
What's the guy regimen? 1.5mm once a week with minoxidil 5% twice a day every other days?
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This post is to stress out the importance of minoxidil to inducing new hair after wounding:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11371349
beta-Catenin controls hair follicle morphogenesis and stem cell differentiation in the skin.
Now minoxidil has been shown to strongly induce b-catenin
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21524889
Minoxidil activates β-catenin pathway in human dermal papilla cells: a possible explanation for its anagen prolongation effect.
Furthermore, studies also show that within the wound itself, b-catenin is not expressed but is only expressed in the hair follicles adjacent to the wound.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2121/7/4
Furthermore, b-catenin can be activated within the wound and this results in new hair follicle generation (same study above)
Minoxidil has also been shown to induce PGE2.
Here is my theory about introducing minoxidil or not post wounding
1. Using minoxidil post wound:
Stems cells rush into the wounded area, the presence of b-catenin expression from minoxidil initially tells some stem cells to turn into hair, further down the line the PGE2 inducing ability of minoxidil can trigger fgf9 triggering more wnt/bcatenin and thus further guarantees the likelihood of new hair (i guess this guaranteeing part is what cotsarelis was looking for in his fgf9 study, because in 2007 he already had a patent for wound + minoxidil, so he strongly believed it worked way back then, but was looking for more supporting evidence, so introducing fgf9 later on, whether minoxidil induces it or not would definitely make the stem cells tick into hair, so to speak). In any case,
2. Not using minoxidil post wound (and not even a PGE2 agonist)
Unless you barbecue your head, I strongly feel that you will likely get benefit only from the last study posted above. In other words, thicker development of the existing follicles in the normal uninjured skin adjacent to the wounds, but if you do not get new follicle growth, do not blame anyone or bash the indian study. Anyway that's my speculation for tonight, it is only a personal opinion though
You french Rambo? Anyways good ****ing work!
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I received my 2.5mm today. Yeah it is creepy just looking at it lol. I need numb cream ASAP.
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