New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[squeegee]

ok, for all the people having any doubt with the following study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23960389

A randomized evaluator blinded study of effect of microneedling in androgenetic alopecia: a pilot study.

Dhurat R, Sukesh M, Avhad G, Dandale A, Pal A, Pund P.
Source

Department of Dermatology, L.T.M. Medical College and General Hospital, Sion, Mumbai, Maharashtra, India.

Abstract

INTRODUCTION:

Dermal papilla (DP) is the site of expression of various hair growth related genes. Various researches have demonstrated the underlying importance of Wnt proteins and wound growth factors in stimulating DP associated stem cells. Microneedling works by stimulation of stem cells and inducing activation of growth factors.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:

Hundred cases of mild to moderate (III vertex or IV) androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) were recruited into 2 groups. After randomization one group was offered weekly microneedling treatment with twice daily 5% minoxidil lotion (Microneedling group); other group was given only 5% minoxidil lotion. After baseline global photographs, the scalp were shaved off to ensure equal length of hair shaft in all. Hair count was done in 1 cm(2) targeted fixed area (marked with tattoo) at baseline and at end of therapy (week 12). The 3 primary efficacy parameters assessed were: Change from baseline hair count at 12 weeks, patient assessment of hair growth at 12 weeks, and investigator assessment of hair growth at 12 weeks. A blinded investigators evaluated global photographic response. The response was assessed by 7- point scale.
RESULTS:

(1) Hair counts - The mean change in hair count at week 12 was significantly greater for the Microneedling group compared to the Minoxidil group (91.4 vs 22.2 respectively). (2) Investigator evaluation - Forty patients in Microneedling group had +2 to +3 response on 7-point visual analogue scale, while none showed the same response in the Minoxidil group. (3) Patient evaluation - In the Microneedling group, 41 (82%) patients reported more than 50% improvement versus only 2 (4.5%) patients in the Minoxidil group. Unsatisfied patients to conventional therapy for Androgenetic Alopecia got good response with Microneedling treatment.
CONCLUSION:

Dermaroller along with Minoxidil treated group was statistically superior to Minoxidil treated group in promoting hair growth in men with Androgenetic Alopecia for all 3 primary efficacy measures of hair growth. Microneedling is a safe and a promising tool in hair stimulation and also is useful to treat hair loss refractory to Minoxidil therapy.

First thing: Forget the 12 weeks timeframe! Stop being ridiculous!Look at people on this very forum already, Some people got excellent already, some others mild results.. We all roll differently, ( different sizes, different intensity, different coverages..etc) we all have different genes makeup, we all have different stages of hairloss... forget the 12 weeks timeframe.. There is no fast miracle cure out there! Even Hair transplants is not a fast solution... takes months...... Take that study with a grain of salt.. use common senses and think for yourself.



It is even uses in clinic for hairloss with PRP..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuXJbqDlNug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQaw80NyfU#t=211

Does Micro-Needling works for remodeling the skin? Yes! many studies proved that already with acne, aging with wrinkles. This is why Micro-Needling is practice in the first place. The needles length is also considered. .25mm.50mm & 1.00mm has been used in the past for hairloss with almost no results. Stop being ridiculous again and get at least a 1.5mm. 3.0mm is uses in clinic for better results. Shedding the dermis is really slow in humans.. It takes forever for tattoos to fade up isn't? This is why the needles length is a great factor. According to numerous biopsies, fibrosis is deep where the root are in Androgen Alopecia.



Does wounding boost hair growth? Yes! it got all the ingredients to boost angiogenesis! Angiogenic growth factors involved in the formation of new vessels are vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), platelet-derived growth factor (PDGF), and transforming growth factor β1 (TGF-β1) all induced by micro needling therapy. Angiogenesis is needed for proper hair growth cycle.

BQQ guy had hair growth with wounding! but to a much bigger scale than MICRO-NEEDLING!

Even the barbecue wasn't completely cristal ball at the temples, so the 4 month full regrowth seems reasonable, i wonder if he would regrow this quickly if he had a shiny scalp that was miniaturized for years.

Notice how they temple are still not grown yet?

Bam!! temples are now showing as well.

joseph49853 regrowth his juvenile hairline with 1.5mm derma rolling before that stupid study!

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact...eedling/page15

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact...eedling/page24


Put that stupid study aside where it was done by a Medical College in India, and keep on rolling! or you guys can just all quit while my juvenile hairline is growing back!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_India

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[video=youtube;Zl4hfZcLYEw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl4hfZcLYEw[/video]

 

[Youcandoit]

ok, for all the people having any doubt with the following study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23960389

A randomized evaluator blinded study of effect of microneedling in androgenetic alopecia: a pilot study.

Dhurat R, Sukesh M, Avhad G, Dandale A, Pal A, Pund P.
Source

Department of Dermatology, L.T.M. Medical College and General Hospital, Sion, Mumbai, Maharashtra, India.

Abstract

INTRODUCTION:

Dermal papilla (DP) is the site of expression of various hair growth related genes. Various researches have demonstrated the underlying importance of Wnt proteins and wound growth factors in stimulating DP associated stem cells. Microneedling works by stimulation of stem cells and inducing activation of growth factors.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:

Hundred cases of mild to moderate (III vertex or IV) androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) were recruited into 2 groups. After randomization one group was offered weekly microneedling treatment with twice daily 5% minoxidil lotion (Microneedling group); other group was given only 5% minoxidil lotion. After baseline global photographs, the scalp were shaved off to ensure equal length of hair shaft in all. Hair count was done in 1 cm(2) targeted fixed area (marked with tattoo) at baseline and at end of therapy (week 12). The 3 primary efficacy parameters assessed were: Change from baseline hair count at 12 weeks, patient assessment of hair growth at 12 weeks, and investigator assessment of hair growth at 12 weeks. A blinded investigators evaluated global photographic response. The response was assessed by 7- point scale.
RESULTS:

(1) Hair counts - The mean change in hair count at week 12 was significantly greater for the Microneedling group compared to the Minoxidil group (91.4 vs 22.2 respectively). (2) Investigator evaluation - Forty patients in Microneedling group had +2 to +3 response on 7-point visual analogue scale, while none showed the same response in the Minoxidil group. (3) Patient evaluation - In the Microneedling group, 41 (82%) patients reported more than 50% improvement versus only 2 (4.5%) patients in the Minoxidil group. Unsatisfied patients to conventional therapy for Androgenetic Alopecia got good response with Microneedling treatment.
CONCLUSION:

Dermaroller along with Minoxidil treated group was statistically superior to Minoxidil treated group in promoting hair growth in men with Androgenetic Alopecia for all 3 primary efficacy measures of hair growth. Microneedling is a safe and a promising tool in hair stimulation and also is useful to treat hair loss refractory to Minoxidil therapy.

First thing: Forget the 12 weeks timeframe! Stop being ridiculous!Look at people on this very forum already, Some people got excellent already, some others mild results.. We all roll differently, ( different sizes, different intensity, different coverages..etc) we all have different genes makeup, we all have different stages of hairloss... forget the 12 weeks timeframe.. There is no fast miracle cure out there! Even Hair transplants is not a fast solution... takes months...... Take that study with a grain of salt.. use common senses and think for yourself.



It is even uses in clinic for hairloss with PRP..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuXJbqDlNug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQaw80NyfU#t=211

Does Micro-Needling works for remodeling the skin? Yes! many studies proved that already with acne, aging with wrinkles. This is why Micro-Needling is practice in the first place. The needles length is also considered. .25mm.50mm & 1.00mm has been used in the past for hairloss with almost no results. Stop being ridiculous again and get at least a 1.5mm. 3.0mm is uses in clinic for better results. Shedding the dermis is really slow in humans.. It takes forever for tattoos to fade up isn't? This is why the needles length is a great factor. According to numerous biopsies, fibrosis is deep where the root are in Androgen Alopecia.



Does wounding boost hair growth? Yes! it got all the ingredients to boost angiogenesis! Angiogenic growth factors involved in the formation of new vessels are vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), platelet-derived growth factor (PDGF), and transforming growth factor β1 (TGF-β1) all induced by micro needling therapy. Angiogenesis is needed for proper hair growth cycle.

BQQ guy had hair growth with wounding! but to a much bigger scale than MICRO-NEEDLING!




joseph49853 regrowth his juvenile hairline with 1.5mm derma rolling before that stupid study!

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact...eedling/page15

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact...eedling/page24


Put that stupid study aside where it was done by a Medical College in India, and keep on rolling! or you guys can just all quit while my juvenile hairline is growing back!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_India

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[video=youtube;Zl4hfZcLYEw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl4hfZcLYEw[/video]

i agree lol

 

[BeliefISKEY]

minoxidil accelerates wound healing?

sorry if this have been discussed/\

http://www.google.com/patents/US4912111

.




i can feel the cure comming in the air toninght. i v been waiting for this moment all my life.


[video=youtube;4rkJ66kHYKU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rkJ66kHYKU[/video]

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this is the answer i got from Rachita Dhurat study corresponder.


Dear Mr xxxx Where are you from? Never do dermaroller till it bleeds. Continure dermaroller for 10-12 session then maintain with finasteride & minoxidil. Addition of Platelet rich plasma which I do

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so why she says dont roll till it bleeds , i am confused about mild erythema stands for. anyway i will reduce the pressure obviously but what about maintainace. finasteride is out of question and chronic minoxidil will f uck my face collagen . i need help . is a heavy roll every 1 and a hlaf month gonna help maintain ? anyone ? help?

What a stupid reply lol....

 

[saintsfan92344]

If rolling helps regrow hair and make your exhisting hair healthier, why couldn't you just maintain with dermarolling, why are they now suggesting finasteride for maintenance? Truth is we are conducting our own study, no one has a great answer other than studies, No one here was at those studies to know what they really did, so far we have somewhat minor results with a couple of really good results thrown in, will it last? does it work long term? what percentage has results? Stay tuned we will have those answers in a year.
to be honest I have seen zero results other than pretty good shedding in almost 6 weeks, so I am negative at least 20%+ hair, my hairline has taken the biggest hit, 2 young said his growth started after 6 weeks, I am going to continue for 12 weeks then roll every 2 weeks, and see where it goes.

 

[nicefella]

If rolling helps regrow hair and make your exhisting hair healthier, why couldn't you just maintain with dermarolling, why are they now suggesting finasteride for maintenance? Truth is we are conducting our own study, no one has a great answer other than studies, No one here was at those studies to know what they really did, so far we have somewhat minor results with a couple of really good results thrown in, will it last? does it work long term? what percentage has results? Stay tuned we will have those answers in a year.
to be honest I have seen zero results other than pretty good shedding in almost 6 weeks, so I am negative at least 20%+ hair, my hairline has taken the biggest hit, 2 young said his growth started after 6 weeks, I am going to continue for 12 weeks then roll every 2 weeks, and see where it goes.

Are you using minoxidil as well? And your shedding hard? That must be a good sign then I suppose :/

 

[BeliefISKEY]

If rolling helps regrow hair and make your exhisting hair healthier, why couldn't you just maintain with dermarolling, why are they now suggesting finasteride for maintenance? Truth is we are conducting our own study, no one has a great answer other than studies, No one here was at those studies to know what they really did, so far we have somewhat minor results with a couple of really good results thrown in, will it last? does it work long term? what percentage has results? Stay tuned we will have those answers in a year.
to be honest I have seen zero results other than pretty good shedding in almost 6 weeks, so I am negative at least 20%+ hair, my hairline has taken the biggest hit, 2 young said his growth started after 6 weeks, I am going to continue for 12 weeks then roll every 2 weeks, and see where it goes.

Man didn't you read what squeege said?

Dude EVERY SINGLE LEGIT HAIR TREATMENT REQUIRES SHEDDING... Some shed some don't. You are not in the negatives you are in the POSITIVES. You haven't been doing this long enough to judge at all (and I know you don't mean to be dick or anything) So far I've seen over 90% results from everyone on here.... Go ahead and check the pages, I have.


The results will last and will keep on happening, don't worry and stop
Doubting it. It seems that you don't know 2 much about hair loss & that's okay,.. Just let it ride man... Hang in there, shedding is a great sign, it means the hair cycles are normalizing.

 

[squeegee]

Man didn't you read what squeege said?

Dude EVERY SINGLE LEGIT HAIR TREATMENT REQUIRES SHEDDING... Some shed some don't. You are not in the negatives you are in the POSITIVES. You haven't been doing this long enough to judge at all (and I know you don't mean to be dick or anything) So far I've seen over 90% results from everyone on here.... Go ahead and check the pages, I have.


The results will last and will keep on happening, don't worry and stop
Doubting it. It seems that you don't know 2 much about hair loss & that's okay,.. Just let it ride man... Hang in there, shedding is a great sign, it means the hair cycles are normalizing.

I've been through a crazy shedding with the derma rolling treatment.. I am still recovering from it but just had an haircut yesterday and the lady didn't believe how much hair I have and thick they were! We just need to be consistent every week, fight the shedding if it happens and wait for the positive outcomes. Success comes with downfalls. Pain, shedding etc.. but at the 8-12 months mark , I'll be happier than ever instead of being miserable b**ch about my hair. Be resilient guys and stop over thinking!

 

[saintsfan92344]

Man didn't you read what squeege said?

Dude EVERY SINGLE LEGIT HAIR TREATMENT REQUIRES SHEDDING... Some shed some don't. You are not in the negatives you are in the POSITIVES. You haven't been doing this long enough to judge at all (and I know you don't mean to be dick or anything) So far I've seen over 90% results from everyone on here.... Go ahead and check the pages, I have.


The results will last and will keep on happening, don't worry and stop
Doubting it. It seems that you don't know 2 much about hair loss & that's okay,.. Just let it ride man... Hang in there, shedding is a great sign, it means the hair cycles are normalizing.

DID YOU READ WHAT I WROTE, I merely stated my results so far less than 6 weeks in. I stated that I am going to keep doing it. but on that note this is an EXPERIMENT, we don't know if this is a SINGLE LEGIT TREAMENT YET, It is THEORY, I am taking it for what it is, I am not quitting, not bagging, just real, we don't know its a cure, we know it seems to work for some, that gives hope.
As far as knowing about hairloss, I know what I read, good and bad and read between the lines, I am not a scientist and I don't think you are either, This may work, it may not. I am going to keep rolling and keep hoping.
Please read what I wrote before replying

 

[Gonewiththehair]

keep going

Dear Mr xxxx Where are you from? Never do dermaroller till it bleeds. Continure dermaroller for 10-12 session then maintain with finasteride & minoxidil. Addition of Platelet rich plasma which I do

I think they are just saying to maintain with finasteride and minoxidil because thats the best we have at the moment. They probably dont even know exactly what the best path to take after the 12 weeks either IMO. Anyway im 8 weeks today as per the study. Its hard to notice much difference yet as my baldness is quite advanced. Ill keep going to the 12 weeks and see then.

 

[closetmetrosexual]

If rolling helps regrow hair and make your exhisting hair healthier, why couldn't you just maintain with dermarolling, why are they now suggesting finasteride for maintenance?

Maybe because its easier to pop a pill a few times weekly than it is to go through the agony of rolling hardcore.

Its just easier to take a pill. Not everyone is willing to endure the pain that comes with rolling - for life. And some people will be scared to do the rolling themselves. Many would seek out 'authorities', such as doctors, to perform the rolling. And that would mean lots of $$$

 

[aka1]

guys,
the micro needling study is just another piece in the puzzle that points towards the concept that wounding ---> hair growth.
the indian researchers probably don't have a better understanding of the potential solution than us. in fact, as we accumulate more anecdotal knowledge through the on goings in this thread, we are actually getting a better position than the researchers to figure out what works and what not.

roll on

 

[squeegee]

guys,
the micro needling study is just another piece in the puzzle that points towards the concept that wounding ---> hair growth.
the indian researchers probably don't have a better understanding of the potential solution than us. in fact, as we accumulate more anecdotal knowledge through the on goings in this thread, we are actually getting a better position than the researchers to figure out what works and what not.

roll on

somebody is paying attention!:salut:

[video=youtube;jYtzI0u-YQM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYtzI0u-YQM[/video]

 

[ganonford]

Dear Mr xxxx Where are you from? Never do dermaroller till it bleeds. Continure dermaroller for 10-12 session then maintain with finasteride & minoxidil. Addition of Platelet rich plasma which I do

I think they are just saying to maintain with finasteride and minoxidil because thats the best we have at the moment. They probably dont even know exactly what the best path to take after the 12 weeks either IMO. Anyway im 8 weeks today as per the study. Its hard to notice much difference yet as my baldness is quite advanced. Ill keep going to the 12 weeks and see then.

Maybe because its easier to pop a pill a few times weekly than it is to go through the agony of rolling hardcore.

Its just easier to take a pill. Not everyone is willing to endure the pain that comes with rolling - for life. And some people will be scared to do the rolling themselves. Many would seek out 'authorities', such as doctors, to perform the rolling. And that would mean lots of $$$

Screw that ... I know most guys don't have any trouble with finasteride... but the whole point of most experimental treatments is find an alternative to finasteride to begin with... I rather deal with 30 minutes of pain twice a month than messing with my hormones... that's just insane...

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shivers20 posted this on another thread... it's another case of hair growth due to severe wounding...

http://m.imr.sagepub.com/content/37/2/583.full.pdf


I think it is interesting...because the dude did not notice any hair growth until after 8 whole months...

 

[slam1523]

This was mentioned in another thread, but does anyone worry about getting staff from doing this? I realize you just need to clean your roller with alcohol, but is it even a concern with most of you guys? Just curious, I'm not necessarily looking to say anything negative cause at the end of the day all the positive results I've seen speak for themselves!

 

[Bombarie]

I went to THE Barber this week and i had pretty long hair, like 15cm! After he finished he said that he thought my hair was very strange, he said you came in i thought you had very thin and little hair, but now that i've cut it you have very think hair

im dermarolling since THE beginning of this threadnfire:

 

[squeegee]

I went to THE Barber this week and i had pretty long hair, like 15cm! After he finished he said that he thought my hair was very strange, he said you came in i thought you had very thin and little hair, but now that i've cut it you have very think hair

im dermarolling since THE beginning of this threadnfire:

:salut:

 

[opti]

how can u not bleed with a 1,5mm roller,i dont get it

 

[Haircules]

I wonder that too... Maybe if one is bleeding so much, the study is finished earlier.... Then everything is "remodelled" in the scalp?!! Then the blood is flowing again the way it should, dunno

 

[bornthisway]

If you are keeping a log, note if you are waiting < 24 hours before applying minoxidil after needling and any side effects. I'm guessing the majority are ~24 hours, casperz mentioned the poster boy applied it immediately after so without a doubt a much higher percentage went systemic. I'm curious about side effects / severity with those who are applying it immediately or soon after.

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how can u not bleed with a 1,5mm roller,i dont get it

As far as bleeding, the author said there was little/minimal (one to two spots). It would be nice if people kept track of whether they are rolling hard vs per the study, and then compare the resulting hair growth at 3-6 months. We still don't know whether rolling hard as some users are may end up being detrimental (or beneficial). Also keep in mind that both finasteride/prp play a role in the results that were achieved.

 

[2young2retire]

it can only be beneficial. look bbq guy.