New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[ganonford]

http://www.hairtodaytheretomorrow.com/fgf9-follica-scalp-wounding/

To date findings have only been tested in mice however when elevated levels of Fgf9 were applied in the experiment there was a two to three-fold increase in the number of new hair follicles produced.
The virtual absence of this growth factor in humans helps to explain why humans don’t regenerate their hair after wounding. Researchers believe that Fgf9 could be used therapeutically for people with various hair and scalp disorders. The next step will be to test the findings in human skin grafts, followed by clinical trials


Just put this up in the other thread but its just an article about wounding. I also read the line in red about 50 times. If its working for you then great (or if you think it is thats fine to) but if we are missing a needed protein then how is any hair being created. Again maybe the wounding is helping thicken old hairs, or just allowing the minoxidil to get in deeper a few days, who knows but that red line makes me really think.

Fourth roll last night.

There was a big debate before about this. Yeah, this is probably true, but that is if you are trying to produce WIHN. That's just not going to happen. We are just trying to brick back our almost dead follicles. not create new ones...

And this is also why you all guys need minoxidil. Yeah, the dermaroller createss new blood vessels, increasing the blood supply. Well that's fantastic. And yeah, the dermaroller will help you revert fibrosis to a certain extent. But remember, signaling is also very, very important, and the growth factors released for so through wounding are probably (almost surely) not enough. minoxidil is loaded with this growth factors, use it.

You are confusing two things, when you roll, you are inducing some wnt, vegf, and other growth factors, this is helping your existing hair grow, fast and thicker possibly. Fgf9 is for follicle neo genesis. The barbecue guy was a freak accident, one embodiment of the follica patent is actually close to the bbq guy, notably, full removal of all the epidermis, dermis and sub dermis, in other word, they have a patent to remove a huge chunk of flesh up to 7mm deep. You cannot do that with dermarolling, simple as that, and we don't know what mechanism results in such regeneration, I don't think fgf9 alone is even relevant in such case. The dermarolling you are doing is not resulting in fgf9, science says you simply are not a mouse, they tried wounding humans before, it is not that simple. In fact in one of the videos I posted earlier, Cotsarelis specifically said we shouldn't use cheese grater on our scalp, it simply doesn't work on humans that way. Your existing hair are getting thicker because of other growth factors. You are not inducing follicular neo genesis, you don't have enough gamma delta t cells to do this, if we were creating new hair every time we rolled, we would be cured by now, no one will be on this thread even discussing hair loss, in fact, hair loss talk would be out of business.

Of course this is not to say this is useless. Far from it. Though princessRambo was a diffuse thinner... he was a very fucckedd up diffuse thinner... he almost looked like a norwood 7, yet he was able to regrowth a lot of his hair from cero (or almost cero). His results were awesome, even if he was not creating new follicles, just reviving the old ones.

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Prp might work with enough sessions but that **** is expensive as fak

I always thought PRP was bull****... but a guy in an argentinian forum got himself some pretty sweet results... but yeah... price is a b**ch... especially since you have to do it again like almost six months or so...

 

[2young2retire]

swing those vergara tits will get members get increased DHT from over:jackit:

i mean it is like magic. we loose the reason here, i admit i f fff f ucking love these tits.

 

[CharlesXavier]

There was a big debate before about this. Yeah, this is probably true, but that is if you are trying to produce WIHN. That's just not going to happen. We are just trying to brick back our almost dead follicles. not create new ones...

And this is also why you all guys need minoxidil. Yeah, the dermaroller createss new blood vessels, increasing the blood supply. Well that's fantastic. And yeah, the dermaroller will help you revert fibrosis to a certain extent. But remember, signaling is also very, very important, and the growth factors released for so through wounding are probably (almost surely) not enough. minoxidil is loaded with this growth factors, use it.



Of course this is not to say this is useless. Far from it. Though princessRambo was a diffuse thinner... he was a very fucckedd up diffuse thinner... he almost looked like a norwood 7, yet he was able to regrowth a lot of his hair from cero (or almost cero). His results were awesome, even if he was not creating new follicles, just reviving the old ones.

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Is minoxidil the only thing we can apply to our heads that have these growth factors? What you say does make sense its a multi step process...but what about the events of people havig wounds and hair regrowing?

 

[swingline747]

There was a big debate before about this. Yeah, this is probably true, but that is if you are trying to produce WIHN. That's just not going to happen. We are just trying to brick back our almost dead follicles. not create new ones...

And this is also why you all guys need minoxidil. Yeah, the dermaroller createss new blood vessels, increasing the blood supply. Well that's fantastic. And yeah, the dermaroller will help you revert fibrosis to a certain extent. But remember, signaling is also very, very important, and the growth factors released for so through wounding are probably (almost surely) not enough. minoxidil is loaded with this growth factors, use it.
.

yeah in the other thread I kind of alluded to the option it was reviving HF creating pre existing hairs to be thicker, but again I'm lucky to know Jack ****..... whats that you say, Jack left town?

 

[ganonford]

...but what about the events of people havig wounds and hair regrowing?

Good point I guess. I honestly don't know.

 

[opti]

if some1 would try topical fgf9...

 

[CharlesXavier]

if some1 would try topical fgf9...

They have that?

 

[hellouser]

They have that?

$50 for a few micrograms... I think you'd need to perform dermabrasion though.

 

[c_super2]

Will dermarolling improve the results of a hair transplant?

 

[saintsfan92344]

Will dermarolling improve the results of a hair transplant?

in theory yes, cant hurt. you can be the guinea pig, we are all one big science experiment

 

[opti]

$50 for a few micrograms... I think you'd need to perform dermabrasion though.

Who knows how much we would need

 

[BeliefISKEY]

There was a big debate before about this. Yeah, this is probably true, but that is if you are trying to produce WIHN. That's just not going to happen. We are just trying to brick back our almost dead follicles. not create new ones...

And this is also why you all guys need minoxidil. Yeah, the dermaroller createss new blood vessels, increasing the blood supply. Well that's fantastic. And yeah, the dermaroller will help you revert fibrosis to a certain extent. But remember, signaling is also very, very important, and the growth factors released for so through wounding are probably (almost surely) not enough. minoxidil is loaded with this growth factors, use it.



Of course this is not to say this is useless. Far from it. Though princessRambo was a diffuse thinner... he was a very fucckedd up diffuse thinner... he almost looked like a norwood 7, yet he was able to regrowth a lot of his hair from cero (or almost cero). His results were awesome, even if he was not creating new follicles, just reviving the old ones.

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I always thought PRP was bull****... but a guy in an argentinian forum got himself some pretty sweet results... but yeah... price is a b**ch... especially since you have to do it again like almost six months or so...

Both princess & your post are just unnecessary. You don't grow new follicles, you revive old ones. Blood flow is key and that's it. minoxidil was clinically shown to produce results via improved blood flow & that's all that matters to me.

http://mobile.journals.lww.com/plas...ewer.aspx?year=2010&issue=11000&article=00079

 

[squeegee]

Will dermarolling improve the results of a hair transplant?

**** yeah! derma rolling will improve any situations.

 

[CharlesXavier]

$50 for a few micrograms... I think you'd need to perform dermabrasion though.

Where can i buy this? Do you know the name of the cream or whatever? If this helps signal hair growth we should deff try it

 

[BeliefISKEY]

German New Medicine? Really? You know his founder is in prison for killing people right? 92% success rate with cancer, yeah sure.

I saw a documentary on Belgian television. I don't know what country you're from but here in Belgium, we still have some good journalists to reveal the quacks you seem to admire.

His success rate was 0%. All his patients died.

Hi, Stewart

My name is Oswald Fandango........ Bye

 

[ganonford]

Both princess & your post are just unnecessary. You don't grow new follicles, you revive old ones. Blood flow is key and that's it. minoxidil was clinically shown to produce results via improved blood flow & that's all that matters to me.

http://mobile.journals.lww.com/plas...ewer.aspx?year=2010&issue=11000&article=00079

I know blood flow is an important factor. Increased vascularity can only be a good thing. But at the same time, how come no other vasodilator helps hair besides minoxidil?

 

[TheHandsomeLurker]

Both princess & your post are just unnecessary. You don't grow new follicles, you revive old ones. Blood flow is key and that's it. minoxidil was clinically shown to produce results via improved blood flow & that's all that matters to me.

http://mobile.journals.lww.com/plas...ewer.aspx?year=2010&issue=11000&article=00079

As has been pointed out repeatedly, minoxidil's use in treatment of hair loss is not just due to its increasing bloodflow. Otherwise other vasodilators would have worked to combat hair loss in clinical trials.

The dermarolling study proposes three mechanisms for combating hair loss through microneedling:

Release of platelet derived growth factor, epidermal growth factors are increased through platelet activation and skin wound regeneration mechanism
Activation of stem cells in the hair bulge area under wound healing conditions which is caused by a dermaroller
Overexpression of hair growth related genes vascular endothelial growth factor, B catenin, Wnt3a, and Wnt10 b.

The third one is key. (Though of course there have been no studies which have recreated these results, so for now there is no scientifically verifiable reason to believe that dermarolling is an effective treatment of androgenic alopecia.)

 

[squeegee]

I know blood flow is an important factor. Increased vascularity can only be a good thing. But at the same time, how come no other vasodilator helps hair besides minoxidil?

Because Minoxidil works locally. I tried many others vasodilator.. they all quickly synthesized in your body just like topical finasteride. Skin is an organ, and like every organs in your body, they can suffers from chronic inflammation. male pattern baldness is results of a big cluster**** triggered by DHT, monocyte adhesion. Fibrosis is the biggest testimony of inflammation. Without proper angiogenesis, hair cannot live and cycle properly. There is a reason why guys have more chance to die from a cardiovascular diseases than females.. DHT is pro-inflammatory and impaired circulation with monocyte adhesion. No blood, no oxygen, not proper cells function, no stem cells migration, no hair growth. We overthinking the problem all the time. You had a perfect hairline before androgen showed up!

 

[CursedMen]

Just did my first roll, and holy **** did it hurt. I rolled with a decent amount of pressure, but i didn't bleed very much. It felt like it was burning after i rolled. There were a few specs of blood here and there. I used the 1.5 mm, and i am currently on finasteride and nizoral. I will keep updates!

 

[squeegee]

Just did my first roll, and holy **** did it hurt. I rolled with a decent amount of pressure, but i didn't bleed very much. It felt like it was burning after i rolled. There were a few specs of blood here and there. I used the 1.5 mm, and i am currently on finasteride and nizoral. I will keep updates!

Get a good numb cream.. NUMBfast works for me..keep on rolling!!