New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[Justeone]

Im rolling past the 12 weeks. I just space it out a bit more .. Every 2 weeks i roll . I enjoy it

 

[BeliefISKEY]

how can you keep posting, that results "take longer", on the same page keep posting photos of you with new hair only a few weeks after you started treatment and STILL denie that this results are due to minoxidil (because you were almost a minoxidil-virgin)

or differently said - why has everyone to wait for results, and you get them in a heartbeat? doesn't make sense -> your results come from minoxidil

We have settled this already many, many times. People that have obtained results either NEVER USED minoxidil or NEVER RECEIEVED RESULTS FROM minoxidil ALONE. If it was due to the "minoxidil" there would be a huge minoxidil thread by now with over 100,000 pages since minoxidil came out since before forums even existed.

Stop. That's it. The debate is over.

People in a dermarolling study using minoxidil alone asked to be switched over to the dermarolling group since minoxidil either dudnt work or barely worked for them. Guys dermarolling alone are experiencing great results as well. DEBATE=DONE

 

[TheHandsomeLurker]

Rolling was stopped at 12 weeks. Results were evaluated after 1 year.

Incorrect. From the study,

Change from baseline hair count at 12 weeks was a primary efficacy variable. There was steady increase in target area hair count over 12 weeks in subjects of Microneedling group. The mean change in hair count at week 12 was significantly greater for the Microneedling group compared to the Minoxidil group (91.4 vs. 22.2 respectively, P = 0.039)

They say the count was taken after twelve weeks.

Elsewhere the study says that the subjects were brought in after eight months:

On retrospective questioning of patients after 8 months of completion of the study, at the time of writing the manuscript, all patients in the Microneedling group reported a sustainable response.

The study does not define what "a sustainable response" means, nor does it report anything regarding what the men did for eight months. For all we know, the pictures could be of men who got hair transplants in the intervening time. It just doesn't say.

Given that it's been six months since forum users started dermarolling, it's probably safe to conclude that the results in the study are at the very least inaccurate. Remember, the hallmark of a good study is that it can be replicated, and so far no one has been able to replicate these results, despite following the procedures described.

 

[ThriLL]

Is using a .5mm roller good enough for this procedure? 1.5 sounds pretty scary. How many times a week should I do this though? Is 5-10 minutes ideal?

 

[Chromeo]

Is using a .5mm roller good enough for this procedure? 1.5 sounds pretty scary. How many times a week should I do this though? Is 5-10 minutes ideal?

No, 0.5mm isn't good enough.

 

[slam1523]

@handsomelurker you're talking as if someone is holding a gun to your head to keep going despite your lack of results,.. If it isn't working oh well move along... As has been mentioned informing everyone is one thing but people have seen results, not everyone will unfortunately like the study seems to portray... You don't need to act like there has been no success reported and it's all bs...

 

[Kirby]

as for now ,the study is s*** in my opionion. pictures etc arent realistic and their were details quishy too.

I've come to that conclusion too. It's pretty obvious that that is the case. Either the study's total crap, or it just exaggerates the extent of how the 'regrowth' is triggered by improved absorption of minoxidil.

 

[opti]

http://www.ijtrichology.com/viewimage.asp?img=IntJTrichol_2013_5_1_6_114700_u6.jpg

look at this pic,srsly what happend to the scalp after 12 weeks rolling?Doesnt look like mild erythma to me .

 

[TheHandsomeLurker]

I've come to that conclusion too. It's pretty obvious that that is the case. Either the study's total crap, or it just exaggerates the extent of how the 'regrowth' is triggered by improved absorption of minoxidil.

More importantly, given that minoxidil is known to take at least six months to show results, why on earth was this study set for a time frame of twelve weeks?

It's also not written like a formal journal article. It's far shorter and written in more colloquial, less precise language than what one would expect to find in a journal. Dermatology isn't my field, but I don't think I've ever come across a published paper written this way.

I looked it up, and the journal the study was published in, the International Journal of Trichology, is run by "The Hair Research Society of India." More importantly, the papers published in that journal don't end up getting cited elsewhere, with the exception of an article about taking pictures of biopsied tissue.

 

[BostonHawk]

Handsome, do you have any pics of your hairline during the process?

 

[SCALPMASTER]

No, 0.5mm isn't good enough.

Chromeo how long have you been rolling and what results have you had.

 

[GorgonMendez]

Well as a participant, I must say, I've observed a great deal of thickening all over the galea, also, and more importantly, new hairs have been born and seem to be growing naturally. So as a participant I've benefited gratefully and look forward to continuing. As a community member, however, I have a suggestion towards graceful progress. This suggestion is to those who bring their own gravity. Experiments need not resentful pessimism nor short-sighted optimism but results unfiltered. Our aim is clear gentlemen, let us unify in our goal and aim better.

 

[thinning_hair]

I have started with Dermarolling (1.5mm) a month, thanks to this forum. I have an observation to report, I started to notice that some of the hairs on the crown area look thicker now (no new hair though). Upon close examination, I see that there are 2 hairs out of single hair follicle.
I see multiple such hairs. I use emu oil + castor oil after the dermarolling every week. Does any anybody have any clues?

 

[SCALPMASTER]

Well as a participant, I must say, I've observed a great deal of thickening all over the galea, also, and more importantly, new hairs have been born and seem to be growing naturally. So as a participant I've benefited gratefully and look forward to continuing. As a community member, however, I have a suggestion towards graceful progress. This suggestion is to those who bring their own gravity. Experiments need not resentful pessimism nor short-sighted optimism but results unfiltered. Our aim is clear gentlemen, let us unify in our goal and aim better.

That's good to hear that you have had results, how long have you been rolling. I did my 10th roll today and the vellus hairs on my right temple are longer than the ones on my left temple which is strange. My crown is still doing well though so overall I'm happy so far.

 

[hairregrowth21]

I have started with Dermarolling (1.5mm) a month, thanks to this forum. I have an observation to report, I started to notice that some of the hairs on the crown area look thicker now (no new hair though). Upon close examination, I see that there are 2 hairs out of single hair follicle.
I see multiple such hairs. I use emu oil + castor oil after the dermarolling every week. Does any anybody have any clues?

I saw the greatest progress with new black terminal hairs expanding off the hairline in previously bald skin during the first month or two while using Emu Oil and Red Pimiento Oil with Black Castor Oil an hour or two after rolling.

When I use curcumin topically, I get yellow stained hair. If I find some sort of black pepper oil or some close variant to black castor oil will it turn white vellus hairs to black terminal hairs?

 

[damien_p_watermelon]

Before we all lose hope and turn away from Dermarolling, can I just say that I definitely have, after 12 weeks of rolling, I have a denser galia area. I don't have any photographic evidence because I knew just taking the 'before' photo would depress me (can others relate to this?) but it just plainly is. I really can't say it has improved my hairline much if at all, which is a real shame because that is my Achilles' heel. But all the same, do not lose hope everyone, this does work.

 

[slam1523]

@damian I did the same man... The way I see it I mess with my hair every day and if I notice a difference in thickness or new growth that's all I care about I don't need to prove it to other people... That may be the one thing that bugs me is people on here actually think they're entitled to proof... Inquiring is one thing but people on here telling 2youbg he has to cut his hair so they can see...? Are you kidding me? Why don't you guys just wait he's doing you a favor

 

[Chromeo]

Chromeo how long have you been rolling and what results have you had.

I've been rolling with the 1.5mm once a week almost since the beginning of this thread. I have seen some thickening of existing hair, some multiple hairs beginning to sprout & lots of thin new vellus hairs also. If I'm being honest, it's comparable to results I noted in a smaller amount of time on Cet, Cet being far less of a hassle than busting my head open every week. Overall, when looking back on old pictures for comparison, I don't think I have regained what I have lost from quitting Cet last year. Shame. Maybe this method takes longer to really kick in. It does work in some capacity, I can be fairly sure of that....but I'm not sure rolling & minoxidil alone is really the answer for more severe Norwoods like myself.

 

[boldmun]

I think it's great to have a balanced conversation about this because really I think we need at least a year to evaluate whether this does anything. Even if wounding and Rogaine worked, it wouldn't work for everyone.

In response to my reply earlier I've decided to post pictures of my temples from various angles because I feel it may help me see what is happening over time. I know a lot of pictures have been posted before and I know they have been helpful to others. Please be advised, I dermarolled on Sunday so there is a lot of flaking.

To me, it doesn't look like anything has happened after 15 weeks. However, sometimes I swear I can see small hairs along my hairline especially when the light catches them. Or maybe I am seeing things. I don't know. I usually dismiss these crazy thoughts. It might be my mind playing tricks on me. Even then, I think it would be really hard for my cheap camera to pick up.

 

[boldmun]

Let me stop you at your first paragraph and ask you to look at the rest of the studies posted on here. Wounding induces angiogenesis, which then causes hair growth. Even your existing/new vascularity, after wounding, all reconnects and goes back to normal after wounding. It's the bodies normal function.

There was also a human study on DR you know.....Please guys, let's not go around in circles here.

BTW thank you for being so civilized. I understand your concerns and just wanted to let you know that this is the real deal, go ahead and check out all of squeeges posts if you want. I even dugg up a few studies but not as much as him. Good luck man.

Thanks. I am trying to keep an open mind and give this time. Sorry, I was just summarizing the linked study in Nature which found "Notably, humans lack a robust population of resident dermal γδ T cells, potentially explaining their inability to regenerate hair after wounding."

Why do you think hair transplants go ok at the beginning and then turn to shi* afterwards? How do you think people the cut themselves, have surgery on other body parts, or dermaroll without minoxidil & regrow hair in those areas? Why do you think the BBQ man grew hair on his temples after being wounded so badly? Why do you think people that break their arms see a ton of new terminal hairs after they the off the cast when the arm is healed? The body creates new vascularity and knows exactly what to do with it... The body is very resilien & the studies squeege posted proves it, all of it..

There is evidence that "wounding" can lead to hair growth, but I am not understanding why this does not always happen. I have a scar on my leg and it is the only place there is no hair on my leg.

There was an article written by Amy Radermacher at Stanford giving one explanation why hair sometimes forms in wounds and sometimes it doesn't. This information is from 2007. The article stated that hair will only form in large wounds that are left open but scientists are trying to recreate the environment with smaller wounds. You can see this article here. NPR also talks about this here.

I did find this study about a man who was burned on his cheek. He let his wound heal in the open and 8 months later hair started to grow around his scalding burn scar. It was a rather large scar. The study and picture of the man is here.

The study concluded "We believe that the regeneration of new hair follicles requires an appropriate, specific chemical and physical microenvironment." However, it doesn't explain how to create that environment or at least I don't think it does.