New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[hairregrowth21]

Since the pictures were taken at two different distances, two different angles, and the hair is pulled back in one photo but pulled up in the other, it is hard to tell if there was any improvement. Even the color of the hair is different between the two photos.

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Or the fact the hair is grown out in after pic.

Deadman is right, the hair is not the exact same length and the angle is slightly different. That being said, anyone who doesn't want to not see the results can clearly see the progress. Thanks for coming on here and sharing. Were you using the standard 1.5MM every 1 week protocol?

 

[The Far Side]

500 pages, some milestone. As far as Pbot64's results go, I'm hoping the hair is darker because it's winter now? Rather than you having started finasteride or something like that. I do find it hard to compare since you can't tell where the ear is in the first picture, but the hair is making a straight line now rather than "cutting in" at the temple.

I'd be interested to hear some more details though in terms of regimen etc. I'm curious if there was any shedding and/or the hairline looking worse after starting DR'ing before returning to baseline and finally improving? I know some people gave up because they thought rolling had worsened their situation.

 

[waynakyo]

500... imressive (not the results)

 

[Pbot64]

Here was my previous post for more info.

My Story: I was diagnosed with male pattern baldness at 19, and immediately started using min (on crown) and finasteride. I went through some intense shedding, which finally stopped about a year later. Since then my hair has remained the same. Nevertheless, during that shedding period I lost a few inches on my temples, and attempted to get them back with min. After six months, I noticed virtually no growth, and subsequently gave up on trying to get my temples back. Now, 2.5 months after I've jumped on the dermrolling bandwagon (in combination with min), I am witnessing the beginning of some serious results.

http://i.imgur.com/LoZfLUx.png
http://i.imgur.com/cG2yhkb.png

I used 1.5 mm once a week for 12 weeks.

"Since the pictures were taken at two different distances, two different angles, and the hair is pulled back in one photo but pulled up in the other, it is hard to tell if there was any improvement. Even the color of the hair is different between the two photos. Or the fact the hair is grown out in after pic."


Distances are only slightly different. I can take another picture if you would like, but I doubt it would change anything. My hair is actually a little shorter in the current picture. Also, my hair changes color throughout the year.

Here, I altered the angles, and tried to illustrate the rounded missing inch or so of my hairline vs. the straight line it is now.

http://i.imgur.com/KPrecV5.jpg

" Hope you always keep your hair."

Thanks, I hope we all keep our hair.

 

[Kirby]

You altered angles to create confusion so it would be easier to convince yourself (and us) that there was a change.

I agree.

 

[SCALPMASTER]

I agree.

I admit that the angle is different but it does look like a bit of regrowth.

 

[boldmun]

Thank you for posting Pbot64. From the pictures, it does look like some regrowth. One thing that will really help you see how much your hairline has progressed is getting a buzz cut. I find it the easiest way to gauge my results.

When rolling did you get a lot of bleeding in the areas you rolled? What areas did you roll? Did you apply minoxidil the day after? What was your routine?

 

[Parsia]

Originally Posted by hairregrowth21


Hi Parsia,

Thanks for the detailed summary with your results. We need posts like yours to counteract the negativity that is sometimes drowning in here. Do you think you could post your results in the results thread too? (copy/paste)

Also, if you are upping to 16% minoxidil why not add 5% azelaic acid?

Thanks and keep us updated!
----------------------

Hairgrowth21 , At first I mentioned you in my first post, And I said many thanks to you , Because of the very good regimen which have you shared with us by princessrambo and your very good explanation.
, This forum needs some people who are dedicated like you , About your questions : I recently added polaris-nr10 ( 3 days ago ) and it use liposphere which they believe it is the best vehicle for minoxidil , It also has finasteride 0.1& and Collagen and Hydrolyzed Elastin and many other multi-peptide complex and vitamin like safflower oil , carrot oil . wheat germ oil , vegetable protein and more than 30 other ingredients , So because I choose Polaris -Nr10 it does not have azelaic acid ,its a cream and I believe it boost my result . I like azelaic acid as well but I can not add it to polaris-nr10 by myself , But I have a good feeling about that because It has made by DS labratories which everyone knows they are great in researching. and their website looks they did many research for polaris-NR10 and they even recommend you to buy only one at first! they do not do marketing a lot thats why most of people don't know them , Believe me or not it shows me they are dedicated and put their effort to research not to sell the products. I can not recommend it yet because I has started that recently but as soon as I get good result by this product I would recommend it to others , But ingredients looks great ...For your request , Mission has completed , I have put my pictures there now.thanks for your suggestion. I shared it here first to see how do you guys think and I have around 800 pictures and I did that to be against negative comments. Lol , Anyhow if there is anything you need to ask about my statements I would happy to answer you

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Originally Posted by I.D WALKER

Your enthusiasm is positively inspiring. Hear a lot of positive reports about emu oil over the course of several years. I really should purchase some. Any particular brand you'ld care to recommend. Thanx and Best Wishes!

-----------------------------
Thanks dude , I just try to help others to be positive , I had hairloss problem for 10 years , I spent many days of my life for researching , I'm not native so my English is not like others but I did many research in these years and try to figure out the best , in the last 10 years I was not consistent in my regimen and I also did not have access to many of products because I was living outside of U.S , Now I have a good access because I'm in U.S and from 4 months ago which I have started using lipogaine consistently and also add more things I learned many new things , I also love medical field and wanna be a dermatologist someday, I love to help people to be against of these damn balding process , I really appreciate your supporting comments , It gave me a lot of energy these days to come to forum more and reply to the posts.

About your question , I purchase an Emu Oil from amazon which has a great rating. I don't know I can share the link here or not :
http://www.amazon.com/Emu-Oil-Pure-P...ywords=emu+oil
I just used it last night for the first time so maybe there would be better brands with better price and I don't have any idea about that.

In addition : Walker I think we HAVE TO use combination method to be against of this male pattern baldness , So I would say we need these:
1- topical finasteride with minoxidil combination ( But I don't believe you can make it by crush finasteride , it should be by pharmacist and manufacture to be accurate I believe : its just my personal opinion and I also think 15 % would be better than 5 % but can not say anything by my experience yet )
2- Heavy Dermarolling ( for sure : weekly )
3- Organic shampoo ( stem cell )in combination with Nizoral
4- Heavy supplement regimen ( which I have started from 3 weeks ago ) or if someone can't afford it at least :bioperin,Silica. Fish oil 2000mg , MSM 3000mg , Saw palmetto320mg , Biotin 10000 mg . ( The price for these supplements would be reasonable)
5- Tricomin OR Folligen ( Cream or lotion not Spray )Or Prox-n ( for helping the hairline)

This would be a potential regimen to be against of DHT by 3 important DHT blocker( finasteride topical , saw palmetto and Keto in Nizoral)
There is also a lot of lack study about plants and herbal and I believe we need a combination of chemical and herbal cosmetic.
The world need to consider many vitamins and proteins which are useful for hair regrowth are in plants and herbs.
I also Believe with any regimen we have , We need to STICK to it , I don't understand why people switch between different minoxidil in day and night time!!!
Thats not combination ! we should not switch between 3-4 shampoos every week , we should not switch between 2-3 different minoxidil types every day or weekly .
Combination method is different than mixing everything together. we need to have a consistent regimen .

 

[CharlesXavier]

I think it's more related to how aggressive your hair loss is. If your hair loss is aggressive, then it means high dkk1/pgd2 production -> faster hair loss rate. In order to counteract this, you need more Dkk1 inhibitors and more Fgf9 promoters.

What are good inhibitors to counter dkk1 and promote fgf9? Any brands or products? I need to know to impliment into my regimen

 

[peacemaker]

Parsia you keep recommending things like organic shampoo, biotin, saw palmetto, msm etc without posting studies or at least explaining how those would be helpful in a DRing context.

pandapop, there is indeed evidence that resveratrol can block PGD2's that halt hair growth, but i haven't seen any studies that used PGD2 in hairloss situations. Can you see if you can find any such studies?

Remember some supplements such as Omega-3 are not only PGD2 blockers, but COX blockers, which means they block not only PGD2's but also PGE's, which is not what we want.


As I thought, resveratrol deals with COX, but not PGD2. Unfortunately, this is too upstream and it blocks both the PGD2's that we don't want and the PGE's that we want.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18381589
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15020596
http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/FULL/Natural_COX-2_Inhibitors.shtml

 

[danawhite1]

indomethacin and chromoglyate from iron dragon is supposed to be a pdg2 blocker.

http://www.iron-dragon.com/product_info.php?products_id=233&osCsid=9d39aba80c7b82a1acdd29cf4c4ec23e

PGD2 and Baldness
In 2012, Garza and Cotsarelis implicated prostaglandin D2 as a primary or main causative factor in male pattern baldness (androgenic alopecia)[2]. Prostaglandin D2 is an inflammatory prostaglandin (read more here: http://www.iron-dragon.com/product_info.php?products_id=230) found throughout the body and with multiple convergent roles, including immune function, inflammation, and central nervous system functions such as sleep and circadian rhythms [3]. Prostaglandin D-synthase or PGDS is an enzyme that has been shown to convert arachidonic acid (AA) into prostaglandin (PGs).

PGD(2) is formed from arachidonic acid by successive enzyme reactions: oxygenation of arachidonic acid to PGH(2), a common precursor of various prostanoids, catalyzed by cyclooxygenase, and isomerization of PGH(2) to PGD(2) by PGD synthases (PGDSs). PGD(2) can be either pro- or anti-inflammatory depending on disease process and etiology[6]
Mast cells exist in red blood cells, skin, the gastrointestinal tract, and the vascular system. Functioning mast cells are part of a normal, health immune system and also play roles in wound healing, but overactive mast cells are implicated in various immunological or inflammatory disorders as well as other diseases; PGD2 is a key component in some of these conditions:

Prostaglandin (PG)D(2) is a key mediator in various inflammatory diseases including allergy and asthma. It is generated by activated mast cells after allergen exposure and subsequently orchestrates the recruitment of inflammatory cells to the tissue. PGD(2) induces the chemotaxis of Th2 cells, basophils and eosinophils, stimulates cytokine release from these cells and prolongs their survival, and might hence indirectly promote IgE production. PGD(2) mediates its biologic functions via 2 distinct G protein-coupled receptors, D-type prostanoid receptor (DP), and the chemoattractant receptor-homologous molecule expressed on Th2 cells (CRTH2) [7]
If Cotsarelis and Garza’s findings that PGD2 is a causative factor in human male pattern baldness are replicated, male pattern baldness may come to be regarded as an inflammatory or autoimmune disorder.

 

[CharlesXavier]

Seems to me without a good pgd2 inhibitor, dermarolling still falls short in bringing hair back. This might explain why some people se more or less results as well. I do believe dr helps restructure a positive environment for hair growth and would encourage to keep at it, but metaphorically speaking;now we have a clean pot, but were are all the ingredients? Were still missing one or two key things. I really need to find me a good inhibitor for this

 

[peacemaker]

Seems to me without a good pgd2 inhibitor, dermarolling still falls short in bringing hair back. This might explain why some people se more or less results as well. I do believe dr helps restructure a positive environment for hair growth and would encourage to keep at it, but metaphorically speaking;now we have a clean pot, but were are all the ingredients? Were still missing one or two key things. I really need to find me a good inhibitor for this

Everyone does, including Cotsarelis. DRing can really help people with slow progression as it boosts growth factors. But people with aggressive hair loss need to add more growth boosters and pgd2 inhibitors.

 

[Kirby]

Seems to me without a good pgd2 inhibitor, dermarolling still falls short in bringing hair back. This might explain why some people se more or less results as well. I do believe dr helps restructure a positive environment for hair growth and would encourage to keep at it, but metaphorically speaking;now we have a clean pot, but were are all the ingredients? Were still missing one or two key things. I really need to find me a good inhibitor for this

If dermarolling doesn't work without exotic pharmaceuticals that aren't available on the legal market, and probably don't even exist, then simply put, dermarolling just doesn't work.

 

[peacemaker]

If dermarolling doesn't work without exotic pharmaceuticals that aren't available on the legal market, and probably don't even exist, then simply put, dermarolling just doesn't work.

That's wrong. It works on some and doesn't work on others. You have people with results, you have people with no results.

It is the same with finasteride. You have people with results. You have people with no results.

 

[Parsia]

Parsia you keep recommending things like organic shampoo, biotin, saw palmetto, msm etc without posting studies or at least explaining how those would be helpful in a DRing context.

pandapop, there is indeed evidence that resveratrol can block PGD2's that halt hair growth, but i haven't seen any studies that used PGD2 in hairloss situations. Can you see if you can find any such studies?

Remember some supplements such as Omega-3 are not only PGD2 blockers, but COX blockers, which means they block not only PGD2's but also PGE's, which is not what we want.


As I thought, resveratrol deals with COX, but not PGD2. Unfortunately, this is too upstream and it blocks both the PGD2's that we don't want and the PGE's that we want.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18381589
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15020596
http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/FULL/Natural_COX-2_Inhibitors.shtml

Peacemaker, even the dermarolling is a theory now and some of us not 100 percent sure about that, so for sure there are not enough study to show the combination organic shampoo or some other stuff besides dermarolling, all I say is there is no one out there who cares about our hair and we just need to combine these things together and see the result. I do not encourage anybody to buy anything, I answered the question of my dudes about my Regimen and I will keep doing that in the future as well.

 

[peacemaker]

Only read briefly about it on a certain advice site and other media, so cannot say the science, I have tried eating a packet of peanuts a day and tho it does contain it, was more for vitamin k and the others, admittedly my hair was a pretty decent thickness compared to these days. Currently taking 900mg of Saw Palmetto which seems great for my vellous and stumps. It's a bit annoying because taking away the dupa I have stumps at the hairline that rarely grow past a certain length, hoping the rolling would help, my left temple looks darker and the vellous looks like more hairs bunching together. Time will tell. Hoping the 0.5 would be akin to boar bristle brush as well

Hopefully man, but I would not recommend overdosing on resveratrol thinking that it would help. You don't have to listen to me as I am no expert on this, but I am an avid reader on this subject. As far as I understand taking resveratrol inhibits both PGDs and PGEs, meaning it would halt both hair loss AND growth to some extent... So it might interfere with your DRing as well. I would just stick with one thing and give it some time and document the effects (ie take high quality pics to compare) and modify your regimen slightly after waiting for a while..

 

[Deadman1]

I am sure it has been answerd somewhere in this 500 page thread, but why are we drawing blood when we dermaroll but the original study participants didn't?

 

[SCALPMASTER]

Has anyone heard of Chaparel extract apparently it can lower pgd2 and has lots of other hair benefits. I read on another forum that it can inhibit body hair growth but it is good for head hair.
A user on Hair****help called Babarbea apparently had good results using a topical with chaparel extract.

 

[Kirby]

That's wrong. It works on some and doesn't work on others. You have people with results, you have people with no results.

It is the same with finasteride. You have people with results. You have people with no results.

I would agree with you, but we don't have "people with results". The photographs that forum users have posted don't prove anything positive – in the photos, people have grown their hair out (which hides diffuse balding and balding patches on crown and vertex areas) or taken photos at misleading angles or in differing lighting conditions, or a combination of those. There is no convincing user evidence.