New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

Status
Not open for further replies.

opti

Established Member
Reaction score
27
@squeegee: Don't confuse adenosine with ATP. I will quote wikipedia on the effects that I described:

Apart from that, the wikipedia article on adenone also explains the effects on the heart some people get on minoxidil.

@zombiehair: Are you a diffuse thinner, or standard male pattern baldness pattern? Diffuse thinners will not bleed as easily.

@somebody else (sorry, don't know who it was ;) ) : Somebody asked me for my scalp massage protocol. It's not extremely easy to describe massage movements in natural language, but I'll do my best:
I mostly use my finger tips, or rather the full area of the first and half of the second joint of the four fingers of my hands. I'm just trying to press with the inside of my fingers as much as possible.
1) Then, using this surface, I do "shifting" (imagine putting a tangent to your scalp into all directions; that's the movement direction here) into all directions. If "tangent" confuses you, think of rapid rotating and shifting movements into all "horizontal" directions of the scalp. It's as if you were trying to push the skin from it's current position onto another place of the scalp; I do this both in straught lines and in rotation of the skin patch where I currently have my fingers. I carry out this movement as rapidly and rigorously as possible.
2) I also exert full force from above, like kneading, i.e. this time the direction of force is vertical, pressing down from above. I use both my fingers' surface and my knuckles for this. The horizontal movement here is marginal and only done to make the vertical force spread to a small area (instead of just hitting a very small spot).
3) Last thing I do is squeezing skin patches together, so I have two opposing forces as if you were trying to introduce folds into your scalp skin.

I do all of these movements for all my scalp, i.e. I relocate my hands after a few seconds (20 to 30) in one spot. For ease of doing this, I first do 1) all over my scalp, then 2), and then 3).

But I think you should be fine with anything, as long as you're shifting your scalp skin into all possible directions as rigorously as possible, applying force in all horizontal directions on all patches of the scalp, and applying vertical force from above.

did you notice ,that when u do 3) , your skin on baldin areas is much easier to squeeze?My temples are pretty es to grab the skin while the other skin areas(expect on one side of there vertex where im a bit thinning,its pretty easyto grab to) are pretty hard to massage.
 

zombiehair

Member
Reaction score
3
@Benjt
I guess my hairloss has been diffuse.the whole top of my scalp has diffusely thinned over the years worse on the top and crown with a slightly stronger triangle to the front.
What makes you think diffuse thinners wouldn't bleed as much ?
cheers
 

benjt

Experienced Member
Reaction score
100
Pretty easy to deduce: Blood is drawn from the lower layers of the subcutis. If you're a diffuse thinner, (a) the BAT in the subcutis does not vanish from certain spots at your scalp at once and completely and (b) the rest of the upper layers of the skin also don't go full thin one place by the other. Instead, (a) you have a gradual degeneration of BAT all over your scalp, and (b) gradual thinning of dermis and epidermis.
You will not just get deep enough with your needles to draw blood when you're a diffuse thinner.

Even regular male pattern baldness baldeners will not be able to draw blood that easily in areas where they still have hair. The further your baldness progressed in one spot, the thinner the skin, and thus the easier to draw blood.
 

mj9

Experienced Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
49
I am afraid you may be right here, but why to do this? Even if Follica procedure is able to, in the best case scenario, recuperate a 100% of the hair that has been lost by neogenesis, theoretically this brand new hair will still be "attacked" by the hairloss process, therefore multiple treatments will be needed during a liftime, let's say once every 5, 10 or 15 years depending on how agressive is the process in each individual. With new young men (and women) also joining the hairloss club every year, the amount of possible clients is virtually infinite. The first company that honestly deliver a valid procedure whithout thinking exclusively in profit will ultimately be the winner.

My thinking is that there technique can be copied at home with a dermaroller and this other compound. They know this and that's why they will continue to tease and keep getting funding to develop a product which somehow people are not able to duplicate at home. Like all these greedy companies, they want people hooked on a product for life (like a junkies). There is no money in cures.... I have worked for large companies who have changed their products so people have to continuously buy more, even thought they already had a product which could be reused.... It crazy - they spent millions on developing it so that the machine would recognise if the customer was trying to reuse the consumable (sorry cant give specifics here as I could get into trouble).

We should divert our focus on finding out what this compound is that Follica have and combined with a dermaroller, I think we may have a winner....

Also, on the patent they mention tonnes of other compounds which they used - one of the must be "the compound"? Or am I being naive?
 

DesperateOne

Banned
Reaction score
18
My thinking is that there technique can be copied at home with a dermaroller and this other compound. They know this and that's why they will continue to tease and keep getting funding to develop a product which somehow people are not able to duplicate at home. Like all these greedy companies, they want people hooked on a product for life (like a junkies). There is no money in cures.... I have worked for large companies who have changed their products so people have to continuously buy more, even thought they already had a product which could be reused.... It crazy - they spent millions on developing it so that the machine would recognise if the customer was trying to reuse the consumable (sorry cant give specifics here as I could get into trouble).

We should divert our focus on finding out what this compound is that Follica have and combined with a dermaroller, I think we may have a winner....

Also, on the patent they mention tonnes of other compounds which they used - one of the must be "the compound"? Or am I being naive?

This compound has already been found, it's called fgf9, it's a growth factor. One problem with do it yourself dermaroller is that the fgf9 has to be timed perfectly or else it won't have the same effect. Now the fgf9 we are able to purchase, even though it is insanely expensive. Like I said before, we need someone that knows the process well and tell us scientifically how are scientists able to determine what the wound is doing at any given time. We need the right sensors and then use our best judgement to apply it when we believe it would be best because the patents don't give an exact time. This is no surprise as it should be different for each individual since everyone heals differently. That would be our best bet I believe.
 

albert

Established Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
185
It's a nice time to repost this, just to see if someone comes up with some idea...

Wound healing phases

NRjUksx.png
 

Jorged

New Member
Reaction score
0
Even regular male pattern baldness baldeners will not be able to draw blood that easily in areas where they still have hair. The further your baldness progressed in one spot, the thinner the skin, and thus the easier to draw blood.

That's quite interesting. I do indeed get more blood in the hairline and temples where there is no hair or is very thinn, than when I use the dermaroller in areas where I do still have a lot of hair.
 

theRA

Established Member
Reaction score
29
That's quite interesting. I do indeed get more blood in the hairline and temples where there is no hair or is very thinn, than when I use the dermaroller in areas where I do still have a lot of hair.

Iv got the same expirience, but it can be also contributed to the fact that the place where you still have hair can be more resistant to the needle blades, the bald area is more exposed to needles.
 

squeegee

Banned
Reaction score
132
It's a nice time to repost this, just to see if someone comes up with some idea...

Wound healing phases

NRjUksx.png

Awesome!:punk: so Weekly stabbing= Extra blood flow and vasodilation for days..then thicker hair and growth? My head is pink- ish for at least 3 days during after stabbing but my hair looks thicker during that timeframe..

- - - Updated - - -

This compound has already been found, it's called fgf9, it's a growth factor. One problem with do it yourself dermaroller is that the fgf9 has to be timed perfectly or else it won't have the same effect. Now the fgf9 we are able to purchase, even though it is insanely expensive. Like I said before, we need someone that knows the process well and tell us scientifically how are scientists able to determine what the wound is doing at any given time. We need the right sensors and then use our best judgement to apply it when we believe it would be best because the patents don't give an exact time. This is no surprise as it should be different for each individual since everyone heals differently. That would be our best bet I believe.

I was reading about that FGF9 yesterday. Apparently highly active during the progression of cancer...:freaked2:
If the old BBQ dude can grow hair on his bald head without any topicals involved, so why the **** Follica is saying that hair don't regrow only wounded? I had a car accident when I was younger and ended up head first in the windshield.. I had wounds everywhere.. my hair got back on my head.

- - - Updated - - -

You guys should also take in consideration that we all have different blood viscosity and vascular density. Everybody bleeds differently.

- - - Updated - - -

male pattern baldness is a real C-U-N-T! haha what a pain in the arse puzzle!

- - - Updated - - -

Hypoxia-inducible factors as essential regulators of inflammation.

Imtiyaz HZ, Simon MC.
Source

Abramson Family Cancer Research Institute, University of Pennsylvania, 438 BRB II/III, 421 Curie Boulevard, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6160, USA.

Abstract

Myeloid cells provide important functions in low oxygen (O(2)) environments created by pathophysiological conditions, including sites of infection, inflammation, tissue injury, and solid tumors. Hypoxia-inducible factors (HIFs) are principle regulators of hypoxic adaptation, regulating gene expression involved in glycolysis, erythropoiesis, angiogenesis, proliferation, and stem cell function under low O(2). Interestingly, increasing evidence accumulated over recent years suggests an additional important regulatory role for HIFs in inflammation. In macrophages, HIFs not only regulate glycolytic energy generation, but also optimize innate immunity, control pro-inflammatory gene expression, mediate bacterial killing and influence cell migration. In neutrophils, HIF-1α promotes survival under O(2)-deprived conditions and mediates blood vessel extravasation by modulating β (2) integrin expression. Additionally, HIFs contribute to inflammatory functions in various other components of innate immunity, such as dendritic cells, mast cells, and epithelial cells. This review will dissect the role of each HIF isoform in myeloid cell function and discuss their impact on acute and chronic inflammatory disorders. Currently, intensive studies are being conducted to illustrate the connection between inflammation and tumorigenesis. Detailed investigation revealing interaction between microenvironmental factors such as hypoxia and immune cells is needed. We will also discuss how hypoxia and HIFs control properties of tumor-associated macrophages and their relationship to tumor formation and progression.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20517715

- - - Updated - - -

Regulation of hypoxia-inducible factors during inflammation.

Frede S, Berchner-Pfannschmidt U, Fandrey J.
Source

Institut für Physiologie, Universität Duisburg-Essen, Essen, Germany.

Abstract

The microenvironment of inflamed and injured tissue is characterized by low levels of oxygen and glucose and high levels of inflammatory cytokines, reactive oxygen, and nitrogen species and metabolites. The transcription factor complex hypoxia-inducible factor (HIF)-1 is regulated by hypoxia as well as by a broad variety of inflammatory mediators. In cells of the innate and adaptive immune system, HIF-1 is upregulated by bacterial and viral compounds, even under normoxic conditions. This upregulation prepares these cells to migrate to and to function in hypoxic and inflamed tissues. Once extravasated from the vasculature, the activity of cells is further enhanced by stimulation of HIF-1 by proinflammatory cytokines like interleukin (IL)-1beta (beta) and tumor necrosis factor (TNF) alpha (alpha), and locally expressed tissue factors. Crosstalk between hypoxic induction of HIF-1 and other signaling pathways activated by inflammation ensures a cell type-specific and stimulus-adequate cellular response. Prolonged activation of HIF-1 under conditions of inflammation, however, may contribute to the survival of damaged tissue and cells, thus promoting the development of tumors.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17998066

- - - Updated - - -

Androgen Alopecia is nothing but a
local Chronic Inflammation induced by
Dihydrotestosterone

Chronic inflammation is characterised by the dominating presence of macrophages in the injured tissue. These cells are powerful defensive agents of the body, but the toxins they release (including reactive oxygen species) are injurious to the organism's own tissues as well as invading agents. Consequently, chronic inflammation is almost always accompanied by tissue destruction.

- - - Updated - - -

Relationship between inflammation and tissue hypoxia in a mouse model of chronic colitis.

Harris NR, Carter PR, Yadav AS, Watts MN, Zhang S, Kosloski-Davidson M, Grisham MB.
Source

Department of Molecular and Cellular Physiology, Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center, Shreveport, Louisiana, USA. nharr6@lsuhsc.edu

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Hypoxia has been reported to be associated with the colonic inflammation observed in a chemically induced mouse model of self-limiting colitis, suggesting that low tissue oxygen tension may play a role in the pathophysiology of inflammatory tissue injury. However, no studies have been reported evaluating whether tissue hypoxia is associated with chronic gut inflammation. Therefore, the objective of the present study was to determine whether hypoxia is produced within the colon during the development of chronic gut inflammation.
METHODS:

Adoptive transfer of CD4(+) T cells obtained from interleukin-10-deficient (IL-10(-/-)) mice into lymphopenic recombinase-activating gene-1-deficient (RAG(-/-)) mice induces chronic colonic inflammation, with the inflammation ranging from mild to severe as determined by blinded histological analyses. Colonic blood flow, hematocrit, and vascular density were determined using standard protocols, whereas tissue hypoxia was determined using the oxygen-dependent probe pimonidazole.
RESULTS:

Adoptive transfer of IL-10(-/-) CD4(+) T cells into RAG(-/-) recipients induced chronic colonic inflammation that ranged from mild to severe at 8 weeks following T-cell transfer. The colitis was characterized by bowel wall thickening, goblet cell dropout, and inflammatory infiltrate. Surprisingly, we found that animals exhibiting mild colonic inflammation had increased hypoxia and decreased systemic hematocrit, whereas mice with severe colitis exhibited levels of hypoxia and hematocrit similar to healthy controls. In addition, we observed that the extent of hypoxia correlated inversely with hematocrit and vascular density.
CONCLUSIONS:

Changes in hematocrit, vascular density, and inflammatory state appear to influence the extent of tissue oxygenation in the T-cell-mediated model of chronic gut inflammation.
Copyright © 2010 Crohn's & Colitis Foundation of America, Inc.





http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20878754

- - - Updated - - -

Hypoxia is a potential risk factor for chronic inflammation and adiponectin reduction in adipose tissue of ob/ob and dietary obese mice.

Ye J, Gao Z, Yin J, He Q.
Source

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, 6400 Perkins Road, Baton Rouge, LA 70808, USA. yej@pbrc.edu

Abstract

Chronic inflammation and reduced adiponectin are widely observed in the white adipose tissue in obesity. However, the cause of the changes remains to be identified. In this study, we provide experimental evidence that hypoxia occurs in adipose tissue in obese mice and that adipose hypoxia may contribute to the endocrine alterations. The adipose hypoxia was demonstrated by a reduction in the interstitial partial oxygen pressure (Po(2)), an increase in the hypoxia probe signal, and an elevation in expression of the hypoxia response genes in ob/ob mice. The adipose hypoxia was confirmed in dietary obese mice by expression of hypoxia response genes. In the adipose tissue, hypoxia was associated with an increased expression of inflammatory genes and decreased expression of adiponectin. In dietary obese mice, reduction in body weight by calorie restriction was associated with an improvement of oxygenation and a reduction in inflammation. In cell culture, inflammatory cytokines were induced by hypoxia in primary adipocytes and primary macrophages of lean mice. The transcription factor NF-kappaB and the TNF-alpha gene promoter were activated by hypoxia in 3T3-L1 adipocytes and NIH3T3 fibroblasts. In addition, adiponectin expression was reduced by hypoxia, and the reduction was observed in the gene promoter in adipocytes. These data suggest a potential role of hypoxia in the induction of chronic inflammation and inhibition of adiponectin in the adipose tissue in obesity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17666485


Cell hypoxia is a known additional fuel for chronic inflammation.
 

albert

Established Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
185
- - - Updated - - -

Androgen Alopecia is nothing but a
local Chronic Inflammation induced by
Dihydrotestosterone

Chronic inflammation is characterised by the dominating presence of macrophages in the injured tissue. These cells are powerful defensive agents of the body, but the toxins they release (including reactive oxygen species) are injurious to the organism's own tissues as well as invading agents. Consequently, chronic inflammation is almost always accompanied by tissue destruction.

So basically, this is the theory we have now:

Regrowth => Regenerate destructed (fibrous?) tissue. Dermarolling is one step and the body should do the rest (we can help it with Minoxidil or fgf-9 when we actually know the exact moment to apply it)

Maintaining => Keep inflammation levels as low as possible (if we're unable to find something to stop the cause of the inflammation, then we've to focus on the inflammation itself)
 

squeegee

Banned
Reaction score
132
Hypoxia enhances ligand-occupied androgen receptor activity.

Park C, Kim Y, Shim M, Lee Y.
Source

College of Life Science, Institute of Biotechnology, Department of Bioscience and Biotechnology, Sejong University, Kwang-Jin-Gu, Seoul 143-747, Republic of Korea.

Abstract

Hypoxia and the androgen receptor (AR) play important roles in the development and progression of prostate cancer. In this study, the combined effects of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and hypoxia on AR-mediated transactivation were investigated. Hypoxia alone did not induce a detectable ARE-mediated response in the absence of DHT. DHT-induced AR transcriptional activity was dramatically increased by hypoxia or ectopic expression of HIF-1α, as determined by introducing ARE-responsive reporter plasmids into LNCaP prostate cancer cells. The secretion of VEGF was enhanced by the combination of hypoxia and DHT as compared to each treatment alone. These effects were not due to increased expression of the AR or HIF-1α as a result of hypoxia and DHT treatment. These results provide evidence that hypoxia may stimulate as yet unknown factors, which further stimulate AR signal transduction pathways.

Copyright © 2012 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22266320

- - - Updated - - -

Androgens stimulate hypoxia-inducible factor 1 activation via autocrine loop of tyrosine kinase receptor/phosphatidylinositol 3'-kinase/protein kinase B in prostate cancer cells.

Mabjeesh NJ, Willard MT, Frederickson CE, Zhong H, Simons JW.
Source

Winship Cancer Institute, Department of Hematology and Oncology, Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, Georgia 30322, USA.

Abstract

PURPOSE:

Androgen deprivation is implicated in reducing neoangiogenesis in prostate cancer (PCA). Androgens regulate the expression of the vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF); hypoxia stimulates VEGF expression through the activation of the transcriptional factor, hypoxia-inducible factor 1 (HIF-1). We tested the hypothesis that an effect of androgens on VEGF expression is regulated directly by HIF-1 and HIF-2, and antiandrogens block HIF function. Experimental Design: Androgen and antiandrogen effects were evaluated on HIF-1alpha protein and HIF-1 transcriptional activation in human PCA cells.
RESULTS:

Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) activates HIF-1alpha nuclear protein expression in LNCaP cells but not in androgen receptor-negative PC-3 cells. HIF-1alpha expression is correlated with the transactivation of a hypoxia-responsive element-driven reporter gene and with the production of VEGF protein. The effect of DHT on HIF-1 was blocked by nonsteroidal antiandrogens, flutamide and bicalutamide. DHT does not affect HIF-1alpha mRNA levels but regulates HIF-1alpha protein expression through a translation-dependent pathway. PC-3 cells when incubated with increasing amounts of conditioned medium from LNCaP cells treated with DHT experienced a dose-dependent increase in HIF-1alpha. This induction was not seen either when LNCaP cells were treated with flutamide or conditioned medium were pretreated with antibody to the epidermal growth factor (EGF). HIF-1 activation by DHT was blocked by LY294002, a potent inhibitor of the phosphatidylinositol 3'-kinase signaling pathway, whereas HIF-1 activation by EGF, as ligand, was not inhibited by flutamide. In contrast, HIF-2alpha protein was not affected by androgens or antiandrogens.
CONCLUSION:

Androgens activate HIF-1, driving VEGF expression in androgen-sensitive LNCaP cells. This regulation is mediated through an autocrine loop involving EGF/phosphatidylinositol 3'-kinase/protein kinase B, which in turn activate HIF-1alpha and HIF-1-regulated gene expression. Therapeutic actions of antiandrogens in PCA include inhibition of HIF-1 function.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12855613

- - - Updated - - -

PGD2 is involved with some many chronic inflammation problems. Not even funny.

Distinct roles of prostaglandin D2 receptors in chronic skin inflammation.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21943706

Prostaglandin D2 plays an essential role in chronic allergic inflammation of the skin via CRTH2 receptor.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16888024
 

mj9

Experienced Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
49
I was reading about that FGF9 yesterday. Apparently highly active during the progression of cancer...:freaked2:
If the old BBQ dude can grow hair on his bald head without any topicals involved, so why the **** Follica is saying that hair don't regrow only wounded? I had a car accident when I was younger and ended up head first in the windshield.. I had wounds everywhere.. my hair got back on my head.

Those ****s at Follica are not applying FGF9 - they have another compound which somehow induces the body to produce its own FGF9 ----->>> Hair growth (no risk of cancer etc)

I haven't read the whole patent and study in detail so correct me if I am wrong (I will be reading it in detail this coming weekend).

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder if the BBQ guy was given something (antibiotics) to avoid infection which somehow caused γδ T cells to infiltrate the site and produce fgf9 ------>>> Hair!

Maybe the dirt it self in the BBQ was enough to cause γδ T cells to infiltrate the wound ---->>> hair?!
 

squeegee

Banned
Reaction score
132
that takes us back to pge2.

http://mcb.asm.org/content/26/22/8281.full.pdf

on another note regarding bleeding and vasodilation my scalp does feel way more alive after rolling.

:salut:

- - - Updated - - -

Should we be stabbing every 4 days instead? Get that vasodilation period going? This is maybe why the BBQ got his hair back? Bigger wound, longer vascular response??


http://www.daftblogger.com/vascular-response-in-acute-inflammation/

Funny that PGE2 is upregulated during acute inflammatory response!!

Prostaglandin E2 and nitric oxide mediate the acute inflammatory (erythemal) response to topical 5-aminolaevulinic acid photodynamic therapy in human skin.

Brooke RC, Sidhu M, Sinha A, Watson RE, Friedmann PS, Clough GF, Rhodes LE.
Source

Dermatology Centre, Institute of Inflammation and Repair, University of Manchester, Manchester Academic Health Science Centre, Salford Royal NHS Foundation Trust, Manchester, U.K.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Topical 5-aminolaevulinic acid photodynamic therapy (5-ALA-PDT) causes a clinical inflammatory response in human skin. While histamine mediates the immediate reaction, the mediators of the prolonged erythema are unknown.
OBJECTIVES:

To look for involvement of the proinflammatory mediators prostaglandin (PG)E2 and nitric oxide (NO) in topical PDT-induced erythema in human skin.
METHODS:

A series of studies was performed in healthy volunteers (n = 35). Following definition of the erythemal time course and dose response to 5-ALA-PDT, duplicate 5-ALA dose series were iontophoresed into the skin of each ventral forearm and exposed to 100 J cm(-2) broadband red light. Within subject, arms were randomized to control, or treatment with the cyclooxygenase and NO synthase inhibitors indometacin and Nω -nitro-l-arginine methyl ester (l-NAME), respectively, and the impact on 5-ALA-PDT-induced erythema was quantified. Additionally, release of PGE2 and NO was directly assessed by sampling dermal microdialysate at intervals following 5-ALA-PDT administration.
RESULTS:

A 5-ALA dose-related delayed erythema occurred by 3 h (r = 0·97, P < 0·01), with erythema persisting to 48 h post-PDT. Topical indometacin applied immediately post-PDT reduced the slope of erythemal response at 3 h and 24 h (P < 0·05). Intradermal injection of l-NAME into 5-ALA-PDT-treated sites reduced the slope of response at 24 h post-PDT (P < 0·001), while significantly inhibiting erythema from 3 h to 48 h post-PDT (P < 0·01). Analysis of dermal microdialysate showed release of NO and PGE2 following treatment.
CONCLUSIONS:

Topical 5-ALA-PDT upregulates PGE2 and NO in human skin, where they play a significant role in the clinical inflammatory response. The potential relevance of these mediators to PDT in human cutaneous pathology warrants study.

© 2013 British Association of Dermatologists.

- - - Updated - - -

Derma rolling session = acute inflammatory response, releases ****load of ATP, upregulates PGE2 and NO, releasing the potent Fibroblast Growth Factor 9! then hair ****ing grow back!!!

- - - Updated - - -

I need a beer! I love that discovery!:punk:

- - - Updated - - -

Prostaglandin E
2
Induces Fibroblast Growth Factor 9 via
EP3-Dependent Protein Kinase C
and Elk-1 Signaling

http://mcb.asm.org/content/26/22/8281.full.pdf

Thank you Zombie!!
:punk:
 
K

karankaran

Guest
My eyes are hurting reading the CAPS...seriously! but I feel that derma rolling wounding (and i mean wounding , not touch and go) with application of a topical like minoxidil will be the cure...i will start it next May , by then i guess this thread will have more research to offer... for the next 6 months, will see how i react to my supplements+minoxidil+nizoral regimen...
 

squeegee

Banned
Reaction score
132
Increased release of ATP from endothelial cells during acute inflammation.

Bodin P, Burnstock G.
Source

Autonomic Neuroscience Institute, Royal Free Hospital School of Medicine, London, UK.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE AND DESIGN:

The effects of lipopolysaccharide (LPS), a potent inflammatory mediator, on the shear stress stimulated release of adenosine triphosphate (ATP) were investigated on endothelial cells from human umbilical vein in primary culture.
METHODS:

Human umbilical vein endothelial cells (HUVEC) in primary cultures were subjected to shear stress using a cone and plate apparatus. ATP released by the cells was measured by luminometry, using a luciferin-luciferase assay.
RESULTS:

Under conditions of shear stress alone (25dyn/cm2), ATP accumulates into the culture medium and reaches a maximum after 3 to 5 min of stimulation (121.7+/-13.2 pmol/ml). The shear stress-stimulated release of ATP was significantly increased after a 4 h pre-incubation of endothelial cells with 50 microg/ml (314.4+/-26.7 pmol/ml) and 10microg/ml lipopolysaccharide (207.7+/-22.2 pmol/ml). Dexamethasone, an anti-inflammatory glucocorticoid, inhibited the effects of lipopolysaccharide.
CONCLUSIONS:

These results show that non-damaged endothelial cells release ATP under experimental inflammatory conditions and support an early role of extracellular ATP in the inflammatory process.





http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9754870

Signaling pathways of ATP-induced PGE2 release in spinal cord astrocytes are EGFR transactivation-dependent.

Xia M, Zhu Y.
Source

Department of Orthopaedics, The First Hospital of China Medical University, Heping District, Shenyang, People's Republic of China.

Abstract

Traumatic spinal cord injury is characterized by an immediate, irreversible loss of tissue at the lesion site, as well as a secondary expansion of tissue damage over time. Although secondary injury should, in principle, be preventable, no effective treatment options currently exist for patients with acute spinal cord injury (SCI). Excessive release of ATP by the traumatized tissue, triggers the rapid release of arachidonic acid (AA) and prostaglandin E2 (PGE2), and has beenimplicated in acute and chronic neuropathic pain and inflammation. But the intracellular pathways between ATP and PGE2 remain largely unknown. We have explored the signaling events involved in this synthesis by primarily culturing spinal cord astrocytes: (1) we determined significant PGE2 production increased by ATP is mainly via Subtype 1 of P2 purinoceptors (P2Y1) but not P2Y2; (2) we found that ATP strongly increased the level of intracellular Ca(2+) via P2Y1 receptor; (3) we indicated that ATP stimulates the definitely release of AA and PGE2 which involved the transactivation of epidermal growth factor (EGF) receptor, the phosphorylation of extracellular-regulated protein kinases 1 and 2 (ERK(1/2) ) and the activation of cytosolic phospholipase A(2) (cPLA(2) ); (4) we examined ATP could increase the phosphorylation of Akt via P2Y1 receptor which also depend on the transactivation of EGFR, but the activation of Akt has no effect on the downstream of cPLA(2) phosphorylation. ATP induced by SCI could mobilize the release of AA and PGE2. And inhibition of PGE2 release reduces behavioral signs of pain after SCI and peripheral nerve injury.

Copyright © 2011 Wiley-Liss, Inc.




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21294165

- - - Updated - - -

[h=2]Inflammation[/h] What is the Inflammatory Response?
The inflammatory response is the body's natural response that occurs immediately following tissue damage. It's main functions are to defend the body against harmful substances, dispose of dead or dying tissue and to promote the renewal of normal tissue.
What are the signs of Inflammation?
The inflammatory reaction is normally characterized by 5 distinct signs, each of which is due to a physiological response to tissue injury.

  • Pain (due to chemicals released by damaged cells).
  • Swelling or Edema (due to an influx of fluid into the damaged region).
  • Redness (due to vasodilatation- the widening of blood vessels and bleeding in the joint or structure).
  • Heat (due to an increase in blood flow to the area).
  • Loss of function (due to increased swelling and pain).

[h=2]What are the stages of the Inflammatory reaction?[/h] The inflammatory reaction is the combination of a number of overlapping reactions within the body. Although a lot of these occur simultaneously a certain order of events may be seen:
1. Tissue Injury
Tissue damage may occur from trauma such as a tackle, collision or from an awkward fall. However, quite commonly tissue injury is as a result of overuse, commonly known as microtrauma.
2. Release of Chemicals
When tissue cells become injured they release a number of chemicals that initiate the inflammatory response. Examples of these are kinins, prostaglandin and histamine. These chemicals work collectively to cause increased vasodilation (widening of blood capillaries) and permeability of the capillaries. This leads to increased blood flow to the injured site. These substances also act as chemical messengers that attract some of the body's natural defense cells- a mechanism known as chemotaxis.
Although highly beneficial to the body's defense strategies some chemicals also increase the sensitivity of the pain fibres in the area and so the area becomes painful.
3. Leukocyte Migration

Chemotaxis leads to the migration of certain white blood cells (leukocytes) to the damaged area. Two types of leukocyte are predominant in the inflammatory response- macrophages and neutrophils. Neutrophils are first to the injured site and function by neutralizing harmful bacteria. Macrophages aid the healing process by engulfing bacteria and dead cells and ingesting them so that the area is clear for new cells to grow. They arrive at the injured site within 72 hours of the injury and may remain in the area for weeks after the injury.

[h=2]Tissue Healing[/h] 1. Collagenation
Wound healing occurs towards the end of the inflammatory process, however the two processes overlap considerably. Macrophages work tirelessly to clear the damaged area and make space for the regeneration of new tissue. After a number of days fibroblasts (collagen producing cells) begin to construct a new collagen matrix which will act as the framework for new tissue cells
2. Angiogenesis
Once sufficient cleansing of the area has been achieved the damaged area begins to sprout new capillaries to bring blood to the region- this is known as angiogenesis or revascularization. When blood flow has been re-introduced to the area specific tissue cells begin to re grow- for example in a muscle tear muscle cells will repopulate the area.
3. Proliferation
The proliferation phase lasts up to 4 weeks. In cases where the injury sustained has been more severe the affected area may be composed of a mixture between specific tissue cells (such as muscle cells) and other tissue known as granulation tissue. If this granulation tissue is not removed it will remain and form scar tissue, which can lead to a decreased functional ability of the tissue.
4. Remodeling
The stage of remodeling now occurs where by the new cells mould into their surroundings to once again produce a functioning tissue. This process of remodeling can take months even years, altering the new tissue slowly. The new cells and protein fibres become arranged in a way that is best suited to the stresses imposed on the tissue. Hence when a tissue is healing it is important to stretch it in the correct direction so to optimize the strength of the new tissue.

- - - Updated - - -

[video=youtube;RubBzkZzpUA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RubBzkZzpUA[/video]
 

DesperateOne

Banned
Reaction score
18
Squeegee, I much prefer if you summarize the studies and then linking to them. Rather than put the entire abstract, which is like at least five every day.
 

Jorged

New Member
Reaction score
0
Squeegee, I would also like to know how many hardcore dermarolling sessions have you done so far, and what are your results so far in term of neogenesis. Thanks :)
 

squeegee

Banned
Reaction score
132
Squeegee, I much prefer if you summarize the studies and then linking to them. Rather than put the entire abstract, which is like at least five every day.

Sorry, I don't want to be selfish but I use the site as a portable hard drive.. this is why.. Also.. this is what resume my latest discovery..

Derma rolling session induces a local acute inflammatory response which releases excessive ATP, upregulates NO and PGE2, PGE2 introduces FGF9 in the picture = hair growth. SO.. the early success of hair growth caused by the Derma roller is due to Acute inflammation and not the remodeling factor which could takes months or a year to get done. This is why the people on this study had early success with mild erythema rolling every week.
 

princessRambo

Established Member
Reaction score
7
Squeegee, I much prefer if you summarize the studies and then linking to them. Rather than put the entire abstract, which is like at least five every day.
I am mad, very not happy at all, sorry guys, seems like nobody reads most of the stuff being posted here. The study squeegee and zombie hair are referring I already explained. Please see post #1493 on page 150 :argue: why is this new again? I clearly explained in that post that the amount of PGE2 needed to induce this is border line insane, notably amount of PGE2 needs to be tween 0.1 microM and 10 microM, this an insane amount, in the balding scalp we only have about 3.2 nano gram per ml. We are talking about an amount of PGE2 is this 10000 times greater than that, that is what they used in the PGE2 -> FGF9 study, why is this new again?:ermm: Also

squeegee said:
Derma rolling session = acute inflammatory response, releases ****load of ATP, upregulates PGE2 and NO, releasing the potent Fibroblast Growth Factor 9! then hair ****ing grow back!!!

edward-norton-laptop-gif.gif


No...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23727932

We found that Fgf9 from γδ T cells triggers Wnt expression and subsequent Wnt activation in wound fibroblasts. Through a unique feedback mechanism, activated fibroblasts then express Fgf9, thus amplifyinge Wnt activity throughout the wound dermis during a crucial phase of skin regeneration. Notably, humans lack a robust population of resident dermal γδ T cells, potentially explaining their inability to regenerate hair after wounding.
There need to be a feedback loop between fgf9 and wnt to regenerate new hair, this happens in mice, but humans don't have enough gamma delta t cells to produces enough fgf9 to initiate the feedback loop. And no, PGE2 after wounding would also not produce fgf9 to trigger this, the PGE2 inflammatory response occurs very very early in the process, the fgf9 induction needs to occurs Day 1 through 4 after scab removal as noted in the patent and mentioned in the Cots study, they found this period to be at least 10 days after wounding (at that stage initial PGE2 upshot is already over, ps: even if there were pge2 upshot, it wouldn't be enough, like I explained above). Now, see below
Figure 1 Fgf9 expression modulates WIHN. (a) Schematic model showing events in late-stage wound healing of normal mice aged 6–8 weeks. The blue bar specifies a hypothetical window of induction to hair follicle fate. (b) qPCR analyses of Fgf9 expression in wound dermis and epidermis at PWD10–PWD14.

fgf9_Time_Frame.png


PWD = POST WOUND DATE. See the blue bar above? That is the critical window. The thing is, even if we had fgf9, we don't know how the same window of opportunity will translate to a shallow wound induce by rolling. Why is this new again? We have discussed this before and before that, and before that once again. This thread is so long now that we need to repeat everything over and over again :argue:.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top