New pubmed study on anti-androgens (nizoral, finas included)

[StoptheMadness]

..... If one took a little green tea and a curcumin pill in the morning with their multivitamin over an oatmeal breakfast........I'd consider it pretty much optimized. An MSM tablet also.

Possible addition of topical spironolactone....................


If you still lost hair after all of that...................face it, you have cueball genetics.

Michael,
If I can ask a more exacting question....I did take the advice and added supplementary, Turmeric extract (curcumin) and grape seed extract). In your opinion would drinking green tea or taking a green tea extract be more beneficial or does it even matter? Also just to clarify would you suggest also adding MSM to the curcumin and grape seed? thanks.

 

[oni]

So Michael do you think Ketoconazole cream would work on women to reduce facial hair?

 

[JWM]

I heard Curcumin was poorly absorbed in the body which is why many brands come with Bioprene.

Also, I would not recommend Prox-N over Minoxidil. Sure it has the POTENTIAL to help, but it is untested and not as road-tested as good old minoxidil.

My advice would be:

-finasteride
-nizoral
-minoxidil
-MSM

Hey whaddya know? It's the big 3! :wink:

 

[abcdefg]

what is msm? Is cur cumin worth taking and where to get it?
Someone should make a long list places to buy all this crap online or something. The same places are always mentioned.

 

[So]

So,
Yup, thats pretty much it. I think Doctor is quite right about TGF-beta.......


By the way, green tea inhibits TGF beta if a study I read recently is correct, that along with TNF_alpha.



Jayman, green tea catechin ECGC (or some such) inhibits type one pretty effectively and also has some sort of anti-androgenic effect on DHT directly according to a hamster flank organ study that Bryan posted ages ago. DHT itself was directly applied to hamster flank organs (thus they should grow and get larger a great deal), but when a green tea catechin was put on the flank organ with the DHT, its growth was inhibited a great deal. Thus the researchers concluded that green tea catechin (I think it was ECGC, could have been another one) has an effect directly on DHT itself.


A biproduct of soy digestion in about a third of all people called equol, also seems to bind to DHT in the bloodstream and in tissues, kinda "handcuffing it" so it cant get to receptor sites.


The thing about aggressively attempting to inhibit TGF beta 1 and 2 internally COMPLETELY is that we dont know if there might be some kind of long term negative side effect to doing so. Perhaps one could safely take an internal supplement of something like curcumin in the morning and use a topical TGF-beta inhibitor like apple proanthcyandins in the afternoon? Just a guess.

I had posted a link on one of these threads about people who have a higher incidence of dementia who have low tgfbeta over long periods of time. Ive read some doctors who have said that it might not be a good idea to rid the body of ALL free radicals as they might do some good things too, etc.


My "theme" of this thread however, is that nizoral one percent or two percent is an easy effective aid in hairloss. Ive seen some transplant surgeons really "downplay" nizoral. I suscpect I know why too. Guys who get on finas and nizoral would probably lose hair very very very slowly over the years, and baldness will likely be cured before they would need any work.

By saying that some free radicals may be beneficial to human health is really throwing a spanner in the works.

In fact it is much like the recent and previous post about Green Tea actually being detrimental to your hair rather than good.

Obviously in the scheme of things we and that includes all those scientists alike, know nothing, really.

The case and point about the inhibition of TGF-b potentially leading to dementia is also worrying, sure. This is just another point in case of us not knowing what the hell we are really doing or playing with. There is always more than meets the eye.

Everything must be there for some reason or another. At this stage however I feel the inhibition of TGF-b could propose lesser after effect than that of ridding DHT. But again, I am taking a stab in the dark with that one too.

 

[abcdefg]

I agree. The simple fact is as usual science does not know much. Science is very slow at figuring anything out for certain in the body. I mean what branch of science was developed specifically for studying the human body? If there are some branches of science they are young and certainly are not very good yet. I guess hairloss is something you have to just accept if you value your overall health. Atleast for a long time until science figures things out.

You have to admit its pretty ridiculous to watch pharmaceutical commercials selling drugs to fight diseases that they have no clue what causes it. Im not anti pharmaceutical I mean its the best we have, but its very slow.

 

[abcdefg]

I dont understand how nizoral according to the study was a better anti androgen then propecia? say huh am i wrong here?

 

[chuckfrasher]

Finasteride is the weakest of those? I cant believe nizoral is stronger. So basically I should skip finasteride and take nizoral instead? nizoral 1 percent did nothing for me except irritate the hell out of head. Revivogen shampoo and baby shampoo are the best things ive used.

Well maybe when taken internally, it (Nizoral) is a better overall antiandrogen. But how well does it act as a 5AR2 inhibitor in the hair follicle?? Does it even have any effect at all in the hair follicle when taken orally? As for oral flutamide?? Haha! There is not a snowball's chance in hell that I would consider that. Unless maybe I was a pre-op transexual .

 

[Strange Days]

Not sure if this is on HairLossTalk.com already:

Human hair growth enhancement in vitro by green tea epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG).

Green tea is a popular worldwide beverage, and its potential beneficial effects such as anti-cancer and anti-oxidant properties are believed to be mediated by epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG), a major constituent of polyphenols. Recently, it was reported that EGCG might be useful in the prevention or treatment of androgenetic alopecia by selectively inhibiting 5alpha-reductase activity. However, no report has been issued to date on the effect of EGCG on human hair growth. This study was undertaken to measure the effect of EGCG on hair growth in vitro and to investigate its effect on human dermal papilla cells (DPCs) in vivo and in vitro. EGCG promoted hair growth in hair follicles ex vivo culture and the proliferation of cultured DPCs. The growth stimulation of DPCs by EGCG in vitro may be mediated through the upregulations of phosphorylated Erk and Akt and by an increase in the ratio of Bcl-2/Bax ratio. Similar results were also obtained in in vivo dermal papillae of human scalps. Thus, we suggest that EGCG stimulates human hair growth through these dual proliferative and anti-apoptotic effects on DPCs.

 

[bobmer]

Androgenetic Alopecia Unraveled
The Last Book on the Prevention of Hair Loss
The Androgenetic Theory is misleading. Pattern hair loss is a progressive disorder. Environmental factors are often found to contribute to progressive diseases such as cardiovascular diseases.

Since pattern hair loss is associated with several cardiovascular diseases and we know that environmental issues contribute to these diseases, it is surprising to note that no environmental issues are included in the androgenetic theory. This theory implies that human physiology and biology is generally inherently flawed because genes and androgens are inherent - a disorder written in the Holy Scriptures waiting to happen!

But if it is inherently flawed, why is pattern hair loss rising in industrializing areas? Slow progression disorders also mean that a person is being exposed to subtle but recurring adverse conditions or environments.

http://unraveled.bravenet.com/

 

[IBM]

Why not take finasteride + oral ketalonazole? Plus oral spironolactone?

 

[docj077]

Why not take finasteride + oral ketalonazole? Plus oral spironolactone?

Because you will essentially shut down androgen synthesis and function all together.

The side effects of such a drug regimen would be physiologically and psychologically disasterous.

 

[IBM]

Why not take finasteride + oral ketalonazole? Plus oral spironolactone?

Because you will essentially shut down androgen synthesis and function all together.

The side effects of such a drug regimen would be physiologically and psychologically disasterous.

Something like what?

 

[Strange Days]

Why not take finasteride + oral ketalonazole? Plus oral spironolactone?

Because you will essentially shut down androgen synthesis and function all together.

The side effects of such a drug regimen would be physiologically and psychologically disasterous.

Something like what?

Like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.

 

[CCS]

Re: re:

Can we give a more concise summary of this discussion?
Also, what are your opinions on cyterperone acetate and/or flutamide use for men with male pattern baldness? Is it potentially effective? Is it safe?

flutamide has no local effects. the benifit you see on hair is as strong as they blocking everywhere else in your body. Cypritone is weak compared to spironolactone, which was not in that study. Nizoral is very good stuff. So is GTE. How's that.

 

[JohnnySeville]

Re: New pubmed study on anti-androgens (nizoral, finas inclu

My comment before posting the tests description is this: Internal finasteride and topical nizoral every other day is a super-strong anti-androgenic regimine. One probably would never need more.

Curious at to why you would state this, since a combination such as this has been used for years and has left considerable room for improvement.

 

[sphlanx2006]

i think michael is talking about topical ketoconazole and not nizoral shampoo. But i am also curious to see what he will say about that, and i am also still curious why topical keto cream is not a popular, better a not tested at all, regime.

 

[Guest]

i think michael is talking about topical ketoconazole and not nizoral shampoo. But i am also curious to see what he will say about that, and i am also still curious why topical keto cream is not a popular, better a not tested at all, regime.

nizoral IS topical keto. he's talking about nizoral.

 

[Old Baldy]

i think michael is talking about topical ketoconazole and not nizoral shampoo. But i am also curious to see what he will say about that, and i am also still curious why topical keto cream is not a popular, better a not tested at all, regime.

It's just not as readily available IMHO. I would think it works much better than the shampoo IMHO.

 

[sphlanx2006]

nizoral IS topical keto. he's talking about nizoral.

Yes, what i meant is that a topical keto cream or liquid, would have greater effects than nizoral shampoo. Nizoral was not even produced for hairloss. It is like washing your hair with a minoxidil shampoo 2-3 times a week. I dont think it could compare to the effects of applying it topical everyday.