P-3074 (polichem Topical Finasteride) Phase Iii Just Ended.

[jamesbooker1975]

Citations needed. There are actually studies that suggest dutasteride increases free T - the exact opposite of what you're saying. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2009.08915.x

Support studies ? lol, read a physiology book. The problem of the study you are posting is that is short time use .
But , even so, here you have one :
Long-term dutasteride therapy in men with benign prostatic hyperplasia alters glucose and lipid profiles and increases severity of erectile dysfunction.

Finasteride, Not Tamsulosin, Increases Severity of Erectile Dysfunction and Decreases Testosterone Levels in Men with Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

This sounds scary.. but have you not been using fina/duta for more than 10 years ? stopped because of sides ?

I had sides since I started . First was hard to get an orgasm, depression and anxiety. Then, after a couple of years, Free testosterone was low ( in scale, but really low ) Estrogens high, lipid profile bad ( this last one only happen with dutasteride ) etc .

You will not die from it. It depend if you want to live with this side effects or not. For me, I was young and had a bad hair transplant, so I can't shave my scalp. But, even so, I was so tired of all this side effects, that I finally stoped . I know, was a lot of years .

But now, my morning woods are back, easier to get an orgasm, my lipid profile is normal . Even so, my Testosterone are not yet back to normal and I need to take aromasin to have normal levels of estrogens. This sh*t really f*** your body .
And when I tell low levels or high levels, I always speak about the average levels for my age, I should not have T levels of a 18 years old boy, but neither the levels of a 75 old men .

Why you think Merck never, never make public an hormone profile on long term users of propecia ? Why you think that Glaxo never released the drug por male pattern baldness , even so they show us that the results were far superior than propecia results ? They even did the phase 3 in many countries, Like Argentina.

 

[MedicinallyCompetent]

Support studies ? lol, read a physiology book. The problem of the study you are posting is that is short time use .
But , even so, here you have one :
Long-term dutasteride therapy in men with benign prostatic hyperplasia alters glucose and lipid profiles and increases severity of erectile dysfunction.

Finasteride, Not Tamsulosin, Increases Severity of Erectile Dysfunction and Decreases Testosterone Levels in Men with Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia.

I've read many, many, physiology books - that I can assure you. The study I posted was an RCT that followed people for ONE YEAR - the exact amount of time you stated would be needed to show a difference. You responded with one study used twice for different retrospective analysis - because you clearly didn't read the study to realize it's the same populations used RETROSPECTIVELY.

At least put some effort in.

 

[Iah11]

I've read many, many, physiology books - that I can assure you. The study I posted was an RCT that followed people for ONE YEAR - the exact amount of time you stated would be needed to show a difference. You responded with one study used twice for different retrospective analysis - because you clearly didn't read the study to realize it's the same populations used RETROSPECTIVELY.

At least put some effort in.

I wouldnt bother tbh, a lot of people on here think theyre science experts by being able to cherry pick study titles to support their claims but they dont have the ability to actually criticically appraise what they read

 

[Vinc2097]

I had sides since I started . First was hard to get an orgasm, depression and anxiety. Then, after a couple of years, Free testosterone was low ( in scale, but really low ) Estrogens high, lipid profile bad ( this last one only happen with dutasteride ) etc .

You will not die from it. It depend if you want to live with this side effects or not. For me, I was young and had a bad hair transplant, so I can't shave my scalp. But, even so, I was so tired of all this side effects, that I finally stoped . I know, was a lot of years .

But now, my morning woods are back, easier to get an orgasm, my lipid profile is normal . Even so, my Testosterone are not yet back to normal and I need to take aromasin to have normal levels of estrogens. This sh*t really f*** your body .
And when I tell low levels or high levels, I always speak about the average levels for my age, I should not have T levels of a 18 years old boy, but neither the levels of a 75 old men .

Why you think Merck never, never make public an hormone profile on long term users of propecia ? Why you think that Glaxo never released the drug por male pattern baldness , even so they show us that the results were far superior than propecia results ? They even did the phase 3 in many countries, Like Argentina.

When i asked my doctor about fina (i was 23 at that time, now 25) he told me its like if you had a killing bacteria on one of your fingertip but you decide to cute your whole dam arm beside of just the portion of your finger being infected lol

 

[jamesbooker1975]

I've read many, many, physiology books - that I can assure you. The study I posted was an RCT that followed people for ONE YEAR - the exact amount of time you stated would be needed to show a difference. You responded with one study used twice for different retrospective analysis - because you clearly didn't read the study to realize it's the same populations used RETROSPECTIVELY.

At least put some effort in.

OK,. lets do this. Name me one hormone, just one, that being in normal range you can eliminate it 70 % and will not cause you side effects. You can't do that even with Cholesterol.
Besides, I put two different sutdy.
One years ?! Lol Propecia is in the market since 21 years !!!!! And you are telling that one year is a long follow up ?!?!!?!?!?!
What about alopregnolone ? What about the dozen of new studies proven that finasteride cause depression ?!

 

[jamesbooker1975]

I wouldnt bother tbh, a lot of people on here think theyre science experts by being able to cherry pick study titles to support their claims but they dont have the ability to actually criticically appraise what they read

OK, what about showing as an study long term use on finasteride or dutasteride and the hormone profile ? I mean, Propecia is available since 21 years ago.

Keep killing your dick , your problem. You are killing the male hormone that turn you into an alpha male . Ask your partner what they enjoy more, good sex or good hair.

 

[Vinc2097]

OK, what about showing as an study long term use on finasteride or dutasteride and the hormone profile ? I mean, Propecia is available since 21 years ago.

Keep killing your dick , your problem. You are killing the male hormone that turn you into an alpha male . Ask your partner what they enjoy more, good sex or good hair.

I prefer to be a bald 50 years old that can get hard boner vs a 50 years old with a great head of hair who is v**** dependent. But the goal is to be a 50 years old with a great head of hair who can get hard boner hahaha

 

[BigBaldAndBeautiful]

I still contend that in order for Finasteride to be effective it MUST go systemic. Thus efficacious topical finasteride treatments are a pipe dream.

In my nonexpert opinion of course.

DHT is mostly a paracrine and intracrine hormone (produced inside cells and tissues, and exerting their influence there), and its endocrine function (systemic through the circulation) is considered to be very limited, especially in adulthood.

So locally inhibiting DHT production would probably be useful for hair loss. Otherwise there wouldn't be a phase 3 trial in the first place, its too expensive to do such a trial if it doesn't work at all.

 

[barfacan]

DHT is mostly a paracrine and intracrine hormone (produced inside cells and tissues, and exerting their influence there), and its endocrine function (systemic through the circulation) is considered to be very limited, especially in adulthood.

So locally inhibiting DHT production would probably be useful for hair loss. Otherwise there wouldn't be a phase 3 trial in the first place, its too expensive to do such a trial if it doesn't work at all.

Most of the efficacy of this product would come from the minute systemic absorption. Doesn't take much with finasteride, as it has a near flat dose response curve. Do you have any literature RE: the paracrine nature of DHT?

 

[Badbald]

Anyone have any idea when they might release the results of the trial?

Its frustrating knowing they have the answer to whether this works or not and we could use H&Ws as a substitute for a while, at the least we would know whether topical administration of finasteride is effective and if this is any more side effect free at all then it says that its for sure worth a punt at H&Ws topical over tablets. Lets say it did both of these (performed as well as traditional finasteride with less sides) it at least shows the mechanism to topical application is the way to go

For some of us, everyday counts and this was a large study with some potentially very valuable results if we had the answers to it . many of us who dont want to risk regular finasteride or have had bad side effects before could really do something about our hairloss and therefor our lives today, not tomorrow or next year or in 5 years time.

 

[Badbald]

I have just seen it says

"Estimated Study Completion Date‎: ‎May 2018"

So maybe this is when they have drawn their conclusions and released the results?

 

[Alternative]

I have just seen it says

"Estimated Study Completion Date‎: ‎May 2018"

So maybe this is when they have drawn their conclusions and released the results?

If even sh*t like topical finasteride gets delayed, then I have lost all hope in future products.

 

[Badbald]

Well to be fair to them their not late yet if may really was their projection

 

[Badbald]

Where does it say that? Have a link?

Its strange because it used to say it on the page provided by the op but now it dosent and I thought i had gone abit crazy thinking I saw it but if you go on google and type in p-3074 its still on the google link

 

[ZenHead]

So I see that the results for this study should be released in May, does anyone know about a potential release date? Since it has completed phase 3, it should be very soon right?

 

[fuDHTck]

My guess is late this year

 

[ZenHead]

I just emailed Polichem and asked for an estimate on a release date. Hopefully they’ll answer back. If they do I’ll update this thread

 

[Arrade]

Exactly . IN a common person, DHT and Estradiol go hand to hand, are like the ying and yang . If one goes up, the other goes up , and vice-versa . Progesterone is a main hormone that regulate that.
Now, thing how crazy the body get if you eliminate one of them in the game ? . Estrogen, just in the first year goes up a 20 % , but they don't have the opposite hormone . DHT, to counteract the E side effects !. So, with time, body stop the production of progesterone ( Cause the body try to do whatever it can to produce DHT ) and the Estrogen go to high and then Free testosterone go to low ( Cause the T is convert it into Estrogen instead of Free T ) , etc .

But, What is worst , and that we didn't know it 20 years ago, is that 5-alpha reductase is part of many other reaction in the body, for example, the convertion of pregnolone to allopregnolone ( a neurohormone that "kill" anxiety ) and that is why many people suffer for anxiety and depression ( if not all ) while they are on Finasteride.

You sound really incredibly wise, from experience. How sad people are informed of the neurosteroid effects these days and still poison themselves. Finasteride is truly a systemic poison

 

[abcdefg]

You sound really incredibly wise, from experience. How sad people are informed of the neurosteroid effects these days and still poison themselves. Finasteride is truly a systemic poison

True, but again if finasteride caused cancer some men would still use it because its the only and best option available. Criticizing the one and only best treatment doesnt really make a new alternative magically available. Until that alternative men will continue to use finasteride despite the risks.