Raz's Story: Big 3: Nw4v --> Nw1.5ish

[Raz]

Hej raz great results!!
I was just wandering what is your family history of male pattern baldness?

Thanks man, hoping to keep it up from here on as well. Also, good question, I never included it in the OP, so I'll just write it down in detail in here and link it to the OP later.

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My family history of male pattern baldness and hair loss in general is as follows:

Dad: Currently a NW5-6~ in his 50s, not entirely sure. (I am not super well versed in the "de facto bald" -tier Norwoods and I don't have any good pictures at hand; at that point you can just say "bald is bald". Being even more bald whilst you are a bald person regardless has no significance whatsoever past the NW4+ point, IMHO). Dad was a NW2 up to age 25, then gradually lost it. First he diffused into a comb-over-able 2.5, then to a wispy as hell NW3v at around age 30. Basically, what I had at age 20 (thank you for the 10 year speed boost, genetics!). From his early 30s and onwards he started losing it very fast and was basically a NW5-6 by his late-30s/early-40s.

Mom: Not balding, but always had weak hair, even if she is otherwise fit (even now) and has great genetics. Her hair is sort of "naturally thin" (for a woman) and she could never grow out her hair long. I have never seen her have natural long hair past her shoulders, even when she was young. She has had long hair a few times, but it's always been braids (ie. those that double up as hair extensions, effectively). I used to think it was just her preference, but I know she likes long hair but simply can not grow it, now. (Talked to her when I started balding myself). So yeah, sh1tty hair genes. My mom's sister is the same in that she can only barely grow her hair up to her shoulders or a few inches below.

Siblings: I have 3 half brothers. (I am the only child to be born to my parents, both of them having remarried). My half brothers are 13, 15 and 16 so obviously they are not balding - yet. Will be interesting to see where it goes in some years because we only have one common parent.

Grandfather (dad's side): NW4-6. Never knew the guy, as he was dead by the time I was born. I don't have any photos at hand either. I remember asking my dad about it when I started balding myself, and he said his dad was bald similar to him. So I would guess, a NW4-6 in his middle age. No idea about his youth. (My dad never likes to talk about him as he commited suicide by hanging).

Misc. people (dad's side): My dad's brother is bald but to a lesser extent than my dad. I never knew him well, but he seemed to have maintained NW2.5ish throughout his 30s. Now, he is a NW4 in his 50s. Some of my dad's cousins are NW3-6, no one with a solid NW1-2.

Grandfather (mom's side): NW6~. My mother's side seems to have bad hair genes as well, albeit otherwise the people on my mom's side are extremely fit and healthy. (This grandpa in question runs marathons in his 70s still). I think my grandpa was a NW3 in his late 20s, NW4 in his 30s and then a NW4+ beyond that. By the time I have any memories of him, he was in his 50s and a NW6.

Misc. people (mom's side): Cousins etc. seem to be mostly bald. A few full heads of hair from what I know, but most people are NW3+.

So... all in all, not too good for me.





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On a sidenote, seeing as this thread got bumped anyway...

Good news: I moved to a new apartment a few days ago and it kicks ***!

Sort of bad news: I shaved my hair a few days ago. #2 on the top and #1 on the sides.

I had a bad day and I just went with the flow... Sort of a stress relief attempt. I am not sure what I was doing, but I guess I wanted to see how my hairline looks, how the density is without long hair coverage, etc. I did kind of instantly regret shaving my hair because my looks go way down with shaved hair. I have such a babyface even now that a buzzcut just doesn't look good on a skinny/lean guy like me, with a babyface. That being said, if my looks would go down by like 3 points via shaving before getting on hair loss meds, now it's probably just 2 points, due to possessing a normal, sub-NW2 hairline. Just looks like "shaven by choice", even if I look fugly in comparison.

Oh well, at least the uneven growth caused by shedding cycles was sort of reset now and my hair gets to grow at an even pace. Also, better minoxidil absorption for now I guess. It isn't too bad, I got what I wanted and also learned my lesson again, ie. I look way better with medium-long/long hair (or at least more hair than with a buzzcut). Note to self: don't shave even if you have a bad day IRL, you learned your lesson. Let the hair grow back.

New pics in like 2 weeks, with the February update!

 

[kuca]

Tnx for the answer man. I m looking foward to your update, your succes and pictures are very inspering.

 

[zakkwild]

dude, sorry i didnt read it all
I just want to know
what minoxidil brand are you using?

thanks!

 

[Raz]

what minoxidil brand are you using?

Rogaine 5% liquid.

 

[zakkwild]

Raz, now I'm facing a second shed too. I've been on proscar about 2 years (no minoxidil and nizoral) and this is my second shed period. It started falling since november 2014 until now. Especially in Jan i shed like 200 hairs per day but in feb it seems slow down. Hope the shed will be gone soon.
sorry my english was so bad.

Keep fighting !!

 

[Raz]

February 2015 -update!

Regimen up to now: 18 months on Finasteride (1.25mg/day), 18 months on Nizoral 2% (1-2x a week~), 9 months on Minoxidil (5% liquid, 2x/day). Extras: supplements like Biotin for my well-being.

Note: I buzzed my hair about 3 weeks ago to let it grow at a more even pace, as the shedding kind of made it inconsistent before. Planning on regrowing my hair out. Also, moved to a new apartment (and have a new camera - notified in previous update!) so the lighting and other things are different.

Pictures for this month:



These pictures are very high resolution (4000xsomething) originally, but they're scaled down with this site's attachment system.

Personal note: I think my hairline is doing fvcking well, it is really close to my juvenile hairline. Right temple feels nigh NW1, left one is lagging slightly behind, but definitely better off than a NW2. Forelock is recovering from the shed a month or two back. Mid-crown is also regaining some density from the earlier shed, though it feels a bit thin right now.

This is the annoying "transitional stage" where my hair is not short enough to look cleanly buzzed so that the density looks fine, but it's not long enough either for my hair to "lay down" and cover a wider area per hair strand. I don't mean that in a combover kind of way, but when you have longer hair for buzzing standards, it still naturally stays spiky but any minor thinning is really visible considering the contrast between your hair and scalp shows easier with the longer hair that stays spiky revealing minorly thin spots. Couple that with the shedding galore from the past few months. However, my hair is starting to look surprisingly good though. I am very happy with my hair. In normal lighting, even with this haircut, I look like a normal non-balding NW1.5 or something, 2 at worst.

Shedding status: not sure with this short hair, but feels to be stopped/minor shedding at worst. Expecting solid regrowth in the next month or two whilst also growing out my hair so it'll look better.

What do you guys think?

 

[eenrak]

Thanks for sharing Your hair looks great. I like your updates, keep 'em coming! I too went through a huge second shed, which also recently subsided.

 

[eldanio]

Looking really good, great comparing start to where you are now

 

[Raz]

Thanks for sharing Your hair looks great. I like your updates, keep 'em coming! I too went through a huge second shed, which also recently subsided.

Thanks! Hope the situation is improving on your end as well.

Looking really good, great comparing start to where you are now

Many thanks. Hope you're seeing results as well!

In other news... This is still like two weeks early so it's not a March update per se, but I wasn't really happy with how the previous pics turned out, so here're some more, taken today.

First off, some pics I took right after showering, with my hair being towel-dried and a bit wet. Dryish but not dry. Damp, I guess?



Not too bad IMO.

Next post: some pics in a brutal lighting. (8 pics per post being the limit, so dividing into two parts).

 

[Raz]

So here're some extra pics I took today, about 30m after showering and drying my hair. I guess my hair was like 99% dry at the time, but could definitely feel the "post-shower texture". If I were to take these pictures in another 12h, my hair would probably look better. But that is exactly what I don't want for this! Anyway, I tried to take these pics from various angles in the most unkind lighting possible, ie. directly under the lamp of my bedroom.



Some notes:

- That thin spot surrounding my cowlick area looks very brutal in this lighting and with this haircut, on top of the previous shedding status - you can somewhat see my pattern. Luckily, this area is not visible normally, looks better in normal lighting (as opposed to being under a lamp) and I am likely to get some re-regrowth in there and can also mitigate it with a longer haircut and concealers if need be.

- There're smaller hairs not visible in this lighting and picture resolution; the original pictures were 4000x-something - again - but the pics got downscaled. Will be fine with longer hair anyway!

- With a tiny bit more of re-regrowth, the aforementioned would look like a slightly pronounced cowlick, though that is what it looks like in normal lighting at the moment anyway. I shedded around the cowlick area the last so I should be getting re-regrowth the last up in there, with the other regions having bounced back recently.

- Hairline feels pretty much unbelievably good at this point. I don't think I'm higher than a NW1.5, compared to my juvenile hairline. (That's the main thing for me as your hairline on top of decent forelock/mid-crown thickness makes or breaks it).

- Middle crown and temples are regaining ground from the shedding I had up to the new years or so. Middle crown is still a bit thin though (but looks good when my hair is dry).

- General thickness and healthiness of the hair is good, feels like most spots are recovering from my 2nd shed and my hair is growing at a fast rate.

The plan from now on is to grow out my hair more as I think this is the awkward zone where my hair looks the worst in terms of density. Not quite short enough to look clean and buzzed with a solid hairline and density, but not quite long enough for my hair to cover a larger area of my scalp with the strands not being spiky like they are now. (Not gonna resort to combover tactics, but the contrast between my scalp and the hair feels the most pronounced at around this point because my hair is long for spiky and buzzed hair, but it still remains spiky).

I must say I am really happy as it is, though, as I don't need to wear hats or resort to any other trickery to make it seem like I am not balding. These pics up in here are 30m post-shower and also in a brutal lighting; my hair looks a lot better in "normal" circumstances as well! Considering I was closing in on NW4 before meds, being in the sub-NW2 range (even if with minor thin spots) feels like a miracle and there's still a slight chance for further regrowth for a few months. I should be at around my max results in the summer of this year, though. (With this regimen).

Thanks for reading gents.

 

[themiz1234]

You are an inspiration to us all, congratulations my man!

 

[gsxrexx]

ho lee FUK

nice man,

at what point in the day do u take finasteride?

 

[Raz]

You are an inspiration to us all, congratulations my man!

Thank you! May the hair deities be benevolent to you as well!

ho lee FUK

nice man,

at what point in the day do u take finasteride?

Hey there dude, I take my finasteride at night. I don't have a set hour, but basically I tend to take it around 11pm to 3am, before going to bed or a few hours before. I don't think the timing matters much, it's just I am a terrible morning person and unless I were to write notes or something, I would start doubting myself and my own cognitive abilities if I took finasteride in the mornings and would get paranoid whether or not I took my daily dose. Works out better for me to take it at night.

 

[gsxrexx]

thats actually my exact plan to take finasteride before bed after applying lipogaine. I also plan to suppliment with zinc and vit D in the morning
im actually popping my first pill tonight before bed!

 

[Otaku]

Just a remarkable story of how you regained several Norwoods with a simple routine. You look at least 15 years younger from your baseline picture. Congratulations.

Also, this should be under "Success Stories!"

 

[Raz]

im actually popping my first pill tonight before bed!

Hope all is going well for you now dude! Keep us posted.

Just a remarkable story of how you regained several Norwoods with a simple routine. You look at least 15 years younger from your baseline picture. Congratulations.

Also, this should be under "Success Stories!"

Being in my mid-20s (25) now and having been in my early 20s (23) in my baseline pictures, I am not sure how I should feel about looking 15 years younger than my baseline pictures! It either means I am not even hitting puberty now or that I looked like some old as fcvk dude before. Joking aside, you're right, I looked really weird and old with visible balding due to the contrast of youthful features, balding and the cancer patient look they created. I'm such a babyface even now, though, haha.

Also, funny you brought the looking younger -thing up... Here's (click) a pic of me someone posted from a party last weekend. Granted, I am sitting in an angle that makes my face seem more round, it still is kind of brutal at 25, haha. My flatmate told me I look like I am 19ish... Hair looks pretty damn solid though!

Also, this thread wasn't a success story initially, but it certainly qualifies for one now I think. I'll keep this thread updated in this section up to around the summer, so I will have been on minoxidil for 1 year+ and on finasteride for 2 years+.

At that point I might also make a thread on the success story -section to potentially encourage some newer guys getting on the big three. Sure, I've had amazing luck with how I've responded to the meds, but it just shows the meds do work - even if not as well for some. That should be enough to give them a shot!

Thanks for the posts guys. Will post some March pics in a few days.

 

[Raz]

March 2015 update!

March marks me having been on Finasteride and Keto for 19 months and Minoxidil for 10 months. The details about my regimen can be found in the OP and previous replies, but basically - 1.25mg of finasteride a day, Nizoral 2% about 1-2 times a week and minoxidil 5% liquid, twice a day.

Shedding timeline-wise I feel like I haven't been shedding lately. Edited it into the OP.

For this update, I took pictures with and without flash. This site only allows for 8 files to be affixed per post, hence I am going to divide this update into two parts again.

Without flash:

Notes about the lighting: the five first pictures out of seven are taken under very harsh lighting conditions, ie. directly under my bedroom's bright light. The last two are in bathroom lighting, which is still bright but not as bad.


- - - Updated - - -

With flash:

Notes: as these are with flash, the lighting is less of an issue, but most of these are under my bedroom's bright *** lamp, with two bathroom shots, too. The first five are for contrast with the previous post's pictures, with the last three being token hairline/temple shots, as I feel like taking them with flash gives a better idea anyway.


Personal feelings: hair looks and feels great for the most part. It's only the cowlick area that looks kind of bad in this kind of photography, but even the hair in the back scalp area looks great, so the thinness just literally visible from above AND in a bad lighting, so I am not fussed at all. See picture #5 in the pic set without flash that I managed to take one day earlier in an angle that made the lighting look less bad. Mid-crown also appears semi-diffused in some bird perspective shots with bad lighting, but it feels and looks like full coverage in reality. All of these issues will also be mitigated with growing out my hair more, as it's still kind of spiky and stands up for lesser coverage of the scalp per strand.

Hairline feels pretty much NW1, can't complain.. Don't know really, but feels samey as my juvenile hairline. Super happy.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, seems like the site didn't allow me to doublepost, but the files are not visible as thumbnails when it force-edited my post like this. You can click on them, though.

 

[Raz]

Bumpers, another month, another update!

April 2015 -update!

So up until now, I've been on:

-Finasteride for 20 months (1.25mg/day).
-Keto (Nizoral 2%, 1/2x a week) for 20 months.
-Minoxidil (5% liquid, 2x/day) for 11 months.

April 2015 pics:


(The 2nd to last pic is from the back of my head, if unclear).

Things are going smooth I think. No further sheds, zero male pattern baldness itching etc. Hairline and overall density feel like I have a full head of hair pretty much.

However, there's one small change. Wall of text incoming...



I decided to go from using minoxidil 2x a day to using it 1x a day.

I actually started to gradually use minoxidil once a day for a few days a week, then doing it 2x a day on the other days of the week, but then I realized it's probably a bit pointless and might confuse my hair and its cycles even further, so I just full-on started using minoxidil once a day only like one week ago, having had been on minoxidil for roughly 10½ months of religious 2x a day -use prior to making this decision.

If asked "why?", I would answer: it's a pain in the *** from a socializing standpoint to use minoxidil twice a day and because supposedly you can maintain your regrowth with once a day usage, whilst 2x a day is better for regrowth.

According to the studies I've read, minoxidil's results have peaked with people about 10-14 months into minoxidil-use, hence any period of time after that would fall into the "maintenance" -category (albeit these studies were not conducted on people on the minoxidil & finasteride -combo, so the participants' hair counts will naturally drop due to male pattern baldness progressing at some point whilst at first minoxidil would offset the balding by boosting hair growth).

Anyway, I am fairly certain this is as far as I am gonna go in terms of regrowth - there is not much left to regrow. Hence, at this point, I am fine with maintaining what I have. That being the case, I am gonna try giving once a day minoxidil-use a shot.

I've read Bernstein say it should be fine after 1 year of stable use and I've also read Dr. Lee saying that after being on minoxidil for 1-2 years, it should be fine to go once a day for maintenance purposes. (Albeit this is for 15% minoxidil in Lee's case - this sounds conservative, but the guy has products to sell anyway). I also did some googling for other guys' experiences - some had no change after going from 2x a day to 1x a day, with some saying they took a hit. I am gonna try and see where this goes.

minoxidil is "supposed" to be used twice a day, but at the same time, it's not advertised to work on the hairline - yet I practically regrew my juvenile hairline. Similarly, it could work with once a day usage only, but they'd need to undergo new FDA trials to be able to claim that of the product, similar to the case pertaining results on the hairline. Which is to say, while I am sure 2x a day usage is better, there is still definitely some commercial interest in having us use it twice a day, so we'll buy the products more and them losing money from further trialing if they were to be done.

Now, I am not a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy nut, but it's seriously starting to get to me to have to apply minoxidil twice a day. Not because of how long the applying itself takes - that part is a joke - but because of the post-application activity limitations. If I feel like going for a jog but my minoxidil applying is due - I will have to apply minoxidil and then sweating or getting my hair wet for the next 4 hours would be counter-productive and stupid. If I am asked out to eat lunch and I have to apply minoxidil like one hour before that - I will not feel like going because my hair will look like absolute garbage for the first 2 hours after applying minoxidil. I am sure you get what I am trying to say here - applying the stuff twice a day can make you feel like a slave to the product.

There's also the fact that while I haven't had seriously bad water retention or skin aging from minoxidil, I do feel like my skin feels fresher now, as of having used minoxidil once a day for a week now.

So with this all being said, I did do one thing to compensate: I started applying minoxidil on a damp/wet scalp. Previously, I always used minoxidil on a dry scalp and would rather apply minoxidil, then wait for 4 hours and take a shower. Now, I'd apply it immediately after showering. As liquid minoxidil is a topical product, it will naturally absorb better to damp/wet skin. I could also feel it being more effective from the first time I applied on a wet scalp, because I felt like I got a bit light-headed from applying the stuff, as well as feeling a bit less nimble. This same thing happened to me for the first 1-2 weeks or so after applying the stuff "normally" (on a dry scalp), but then my body got used to it, so I can tell if I am getting that feeling again - it has upped its effectiveness.

Make no mistake, I am not trying to play with fire here - if I get any serious sides such as palpitations or other heart-related scares, I will go back to applying it on a dry scalp. But I am pretty optimistic this will pass, like before. Worth knowing is that I am anemic and minoxidil in its oral form can be used as a blood pressure drug, so for me to get minor anemia-like sides from minoxidil is not too crazy.

Anyway, rambling aside, I am gonna give this a shot now; hopefully once a day is enough and especially with the "applying on a wet scalp" -tactic, to offset the difference a little bit. IF stuff goes downhill (seasonal shedding aside), I am gonna go back to 5% used 2x a day, or then I am just gonna order 15% minoxidil and use that sucker once a day as it should be fine.

We will see in another 1-2 months, if any hairloss occurs. I will keep you guys posted.

Thanks for reading! unk:

 

[kuca]

dude your hair looks great
I m just wondering why this is not in succes storyes section?

 

[Notcoolanymore]

Major improvement. Keep us posted on how 1x/day minoxidil works out for you. I have been considering it myself.