Raz's Story: Big 3: Nw4v --> Nw1.5ish

bwralston

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Giving us all hope man! Only in the first months of a very similar regiment and similar hair texture and pattern. Yay!! Good luck!
 

Raz

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Hey again guys, it's been a long time!

Alright, I haven't posted in here for about 8 months or so. Long story short: I had some family issues (a few deaths in the family etc.) and I was busy with a lot of things in general, so hair loss hasn't been the first thing in my mind.

That being the case, I have been off finasteride since last November or so, since my last supply ended. That is, 8 months or so without finasteride. I had a one year supply of minoxidil pre-purchased prior to this, so I have still been using minoxidil (1x a day, only), as well as nizoral (2-3x a week). I had depression and other anxiety-related things due to the events I briefly mentioned in this post, so I didn't prioritize getting back on finasteride.

As it is now, I plan to start using finasteride again in roughly a month or so, as everything is back to normal for me. Accompanying that, I will also up my minoxidil-usage from 1x a day to 2x a day, at least for a while.

So, the interesting part to you guys is probably: "so, how is your hair now?"

I actually haven't experienced that much hair loss. I can tell you I've definitely lost some ground - as expected - due to not being on finasteride, but nothing major. My forelock is a little less dense (but good), and my mid-scalp which was beginning to look full even with hair parted has also taken a hit (pretty meh by now). The biggest hit has been the vertex density. My biggest thinning area always was the "monk spot" in the vertex, and now being off finasteride, it has gradually reverted closer and closer to where it was before finasteride. It's not quite there yet, but if I don't cover it with hair, it looks sort of bald, unlike in my past update pictures where it was merely "sort of thin".

My hairline and temples are mostly unaffected. I might have gone down 0.25 or 0.5 Norwood or so (making me a NW2V or so as of now), but the biggest difference is that my hair doesn't grow to be as long anymore, until it sheds, due to the shortened cycles of the hairs (hairs are still terminal, but shedding happens earlier).

So, TL;DR: the areas the most susceptible to thinning have thinned out moderately over time (the vertex for me), with a mild to moderate overall density loss across the board. This mostly shows that minoxidil has been behind 90% of my regrowth, whilst finasteride has been the agent stopping further deterioration from happening, enabling the regrowth to stay longer and more healthy. That said, the hair loss is still noticeable, but it's more along the lines of NW1.5 -> NW2V, rather than going NW4V or so which was my pre-meds 2013 baseline.

The first 3 months or so off finasteride, there was literally no change. I never underwent a big shed either. It's just been gradual thinning from month 4 to month 8. The "male pattern baldness itch" never came back either. (This was annoyingly strong before I got on finasteride, so this is pretty curious). I do think my hair looks crappy now, but it's because I got used to being a "fullhead" again. Don't get me wrong, I am still in good shape, but the vertex is starting to get bad again, so I am for the first time in 2 years anxious to sit down or tie my shoes or something, because exposing my scalp so that people have a bird's eye -view on it will result in the thinning being visible, unlike before.

So, with that being the case: I will get back on finasteride in August. Why not sooner? Well, I am traveling a little in July and have some other things to do. I am not stressed out right now. I had a good chance to clear my head after the familial issues, and I guess this also showed me which medications have actually done the work for me, and what results in quitting some of it. No abnormalities to speak of since cold turkey quitting finasteride.

I am optimistic about getting back on finasteride and going 2x a day on minoxidil usage. I am optimistic I will regain any lost ground within 6 months of restarting finasteride, as it has not been long since quitting and having follical inactivity.

I will post pictures once I restart my regimen in about a month or so. Thanks for reading, happy maintaining and regrowing to y'all!

PS. I'm still around on the forum again, if anyone has any questions about my journey.
 

Spellbinder

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I am so f**king jelaous, OMG. I hope I respond to finasteride as you did. Been on minoxidil for half a year and I think I somewhat responded to it, never had a shed when started using it and after 2 months I only had 3-4 hairs in my sink each morning, but when I started using finasteride 2 months ago, OMG, the shed is just crazy, it seems like it never stops.
 

Raz

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Yo guys, just figured I'd drop by for a little bump. Won't post new pictures right now (situation is samey with the last update, or a little bit worse, but within imaginable range from the pictures), but I'll say a few things:

1) I got a new 400-day batch of finasteride yesterday, so I am back in the saddle. Been two days of taking pills so far casually, and I pretty much haven't felt a thing (in a negative sense) - not that I expected it, even after a 9~ month break from finasteride, because I already went through the process when I first started finasteride, and my body is still kind of used to it I guess. It's good to be back on finasteride, feels like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. There's some gains to be regained. (Why I quit finasteride first off was due to familial stuff, and not prioritizing things like this).

2) I am getting back to 2x minoxidil applying a day again. Once a day did do the thing for maintaining (IMO), albeit it made me lose out on some volume and I felt like the hairs shed earlier. So, with that being said, I ordered a 6-month supply of both, 5% liquid and 5% foam minoxidil online. (Kirkland). Much cheaper than buying Rogaine OTC in here, and they don't sell the foam version in here - so I decided I'd get a one year supply of minoxidil right off the bat. (6-month supply of both liquid and foam = 12 months of minoxidil, as I am using both products once a day). Will be good to be able to use the foam during the day.

The only reason I didn't continue with 2x applying a day in the past was because the liquid is such a b**ch to apply twice a day and you don't feel like going anywhere for the first 2½-3 hours of applying it, because your hair looks like trash, and being a slave to your hair daily is a drag, with having to schedule around your hair (!). So, here we go with the liquid + foam -combo! Should have it in the mail soon.

3) I added dermarolling to my regimen. Using a 1.5mm roller, so kind of trying to replicate "that one Indian study". I am neither optimistic or pessimistic - will see how it goes. Gonna be rolling approx once every 10 days up until mild erythema and see where that goes. Done 1 session so far and it made me feel pretty good in all honesty. The sort of semi-tingly and semi-burning sensation, which wasn't still the bad kind of burning. I'll keep doing this for some months, and if it does jack sh*t, I might try some deeper wounding and observe the situation carefully. Giving it about 6-9 months overall, maybe.

4) I am going to order some 15% minoxidil soon. This stuff to be specific. I am not gonna use it daily or anything, but probably every 3 days or so, once a day, in stead of the liquid 5% I would use at night. I figure at worst it'll be the same, and at best, it will boost me a bit. Especially with the Retinol and Caffeine enhancements. That way it will end up being kind of like dutasteride is to the guys who do finasteride on most days and dutasteride on some days to boost it up, meaning that expensive bottle would last me about 6 months as opposed to 1 month, so it could be decent.

5) I will document things monthly to bimonthly starting from now on, to see where it goes with the rolling, re-starting finasteride, and adding new minoxidil to the mix. I will also document any potential sides or weird things that might occur. I didn't feel anything stopping finasteride cold turkey for 9 months, or getting back on it so far, but I will document things if something happens (I did notice my semen went from watery to normal gradually, though). Expect some picture logs monthly to bimonthly, starting in a month or two.

6) Overall I feel very optimistic about getting back in the game fully again. I didn't lose much ground in 9 months of no-finasteride, and only applying minoxidil 1x a day, although it was definitely noticeable. So, getting back some gains (and hopefully more?!) will be fun.

Thanks for reading, may the hair deities be on your side. 8D
 

michel sapin

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hey bro nice to have you back . I have a few question for you , i saw you got some incredible regrowth at the temple and hairline , would you attribute them to minoxidl ? or more fina ?
Ive been on minoxidil for 7 month now ( was previously on fina for 16 month) for my hairline , and the situation is worse than baseline , is ther any hope ?
Do you got some unwanted body hair or facial hair because of minoxidil ?
sorry for all the question . But you re sucess story inspired me to start minoxidil .i hoped similar result as you because i am young
 

michel sapin

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and how do you apply your minoxidil to the hairline ? DO you massage it or just let it soak ?
 

Raz

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Hey dude, thanks for dropping by.

To answer your questions:

1) I would attribute nearly all of my gains to minoxidil. I did have some moderate texture improvements and gains on finasteride, but it was pretty double-edged because it mostly affected the areas that were healthier, rather than the already mostly gone areas, which meant that the the thick areas got thicker and the thin areas had lesser improvements, which kind of made me look even more bald. I still think finasteride is very important, because it stops the actual balding process which minoxidil doesn't, and creates a good environment for minoxidil to work. So that being the case, I think finasteride is equally important. But gains-wise? I had an explosion of growth only after starting on minoxidil.

2) No unwanted body hair or facial hair. I grow a full beard easily and have thick facial hair anyway, so no gains from minoxidil in that front. I didn't get any hair in weird or unwanted places.

3) I apply liquid minoxidil by just spurting it to the desired area close up, and then I rub it in with my hand. Like, to the crown, I'll part the hair and try to apply minoxidil directly on the scalp rather than the hair - and when I have gotten it in there, I rub it along the general area. Same kind of deal for temples. It doesn't run down and trickle, but I don't like excessively rub it either. Just a few seconds per area. Then I thoroughly wash my hands after using minoxidil.

I'd say, keep going at it - both finasteride and minoxidil. You could upgrade to dutasteride if you feel like your loss is aggressive, and you could try a different (or a higher concentration) minoxidil product? The sad thing is that those who don't respond to minoxidil just don't respond to it, and those who do, tend to do so moderately to extremely well. In my case, I think I happen to be in some very high percentile in terms of response luck, so I don't know man.. Hope you can turn it around.
 

michel sapin

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thx for your answer dude ; the fact is i am just 23 and started propecia 2 years ago , i was just a Norwood 1,5 at most , but it ddnt stop my hairline recession . SO after 16-17 month of 1 mg , i decided to add minoxidil 5 on my temple , and i shed my vellu hair , but they didnt regrow .

At first i was applying way too much liquid minoxidil , 4-5ml perday , so i got an hypertichosis of my body and hand . So that mean the stuff is working on my body , but my hairline is worse than baseline .
So i am lost . DO you think the fact of massaging the minoxidil is really essential to get regrowth? Moreover i have upped my propecia dosage, i ma currently taking 5 mg per day ( 1 proscar tab) .
 

Raz

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I'm not an expert, but consistency is key. If something results in some short-term agony, it might mean it is good in the long term. I am not saying that as a factual statement, but to just say that patience and consistency is key. Try to stick to it with no paranoia or panicking (can be hard I know), keep documenting things, stay consistent with the methodology, and do assessments every now and then, and THEN think whether or not you should change something up.

I don't know about minoxidil - I mean, I like to massage it in because that way I am sure it reaches the spots I want it to reach and I can get better consistency with the applications. But even if you don't massage it, if you hit the right spots, it should be the same thing. I mean, massaging and rubbing it in ensures you at least get it on the scalp as opposed to the hair, so that's why I do it also.

Stay consistent for a period of time. Good luck. (5mg a finasteride a day? Damn! Hope it goes well dude)
 

michel sapin

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thanks for your support man , each times that i wanted to drop the minoxidil i thought abut your sucess story on the hairline ^^. But when you started your temple were slick bald or there wer vellu hair on it ?
What scared me is the fact that i a still on 7 month of minoxidil , and the timeframe for regrowth is more like 4 month .
how much did you apply to your temple ? And you didnt get some unwanted hair on arm and forearm by rubbing the minoxidil ?
i am a blond guys like you and it give me some unwanted black hair ; so that mean the stuff is working on my body .
 

michel sapin

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you know the harsh tings is that i have been greedy , i wanted to thicken hair at the hairline so i added minoxidil, but those hair shed and didnt regrow , maybe finasteride maintained them , and minoxidil was too strong for them . So i am really sad right now . but i stick with my treatment .
I also want to add duta but i am scared of the gyno , so for the moment i take 5 mg daily proscar ( less risk of gyno)
with the reglar of 1 mg i had no sides at all .
 

Raz

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Just wanted to drop by and report that I've been on finasteride for roughly 3 weeks again, in addition to which I am now applying minoxidil twice a day again. The great news is that I got a 6-month supply of the foam (5%) now. Meaning, I am doing foam during the days and liquid (5%) at night.

I literally am overjoyed at how great the foam is. It's the best thing since sliced bread. Don't get me wrong, the liquid does its job, but applying it 2x a day is a nightmare because my hair looks like trash for the first 2-3 hours after applying, and even as it dries, my hair kind of looks a bit dirty, even if not wispy.

Not the case with the foam. It's literally: "put it on, be good to go in 5 minutes!", not to mention the Kirkland stuff I have doesn't smell, and I can also kind of treat the foam as hair gel or something, in that it actually sort of thickens up the hair, or gives it volume as opposed to being flat. Literally the opposite effect from the liquid (thickening vs. making my hair look like sh*t).

So in a nutshell, the foam has made minoxidil twice a day viable again, where it used to be a complete nightmare where I'd get hair anxiety from having to put up with minoxidil drying times and my hair looking greasy/wispy/shitty due to it. Being a slave to minoxidil scheduling feels ridiculous down the line. I also feel like my skin feels a little better now that I only do liquid once a day at night (and sometimes not even that - I use foam twice a day on days I have women over or something, though mostly it's liquid at night).

All in all, I feel really great now - minoxidil twice a day is now great, and I feel like my hair shedding in the shower has come to a complete halt since starting finasteride again. (I see like 0 to 3 hairs on my hands or in the drain when I shower, vs. dozens when I was off the finasteride).

I'll get you guys actual pictures of my hair in a month or so when I feel like it (like in the OP and in status reports), but here's just a few bathroom selfies to see roughly how stuff is now:

IMG20161012135605.jpg IMG20161012140121.jpg

Thanks for checking the thread out as usual, peace out.
 

davesmith420

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Raz, I think if you even did "give up the battle" and stop treatments/go bald you would still look good. You have good facial features for it.
 

Raz

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Raz, I think if you even did "give up the battle" and stop treatments/go bald you would still look good. You have good facial features for it.
Oh really? Haha well thanks I guess - but I don't wanna lose the battle! (Who would?) Still, thanks for the message and the positivity.

3 years later and still updating. Congrats and thanks!
I've gotten a lot of information and hope from here - if I didn't eventually find my way to here from google in like 2010ish (before I got on any treatments or registered, admittedly) - I would probably still be ignorant about this all, and would probably be closing in on the NW4½ zone now with not much hope. So that being said, it's the least I can do to try to document stuff and give others some hope. I really hope they would teach us about hairloss in schools, like when we're 15 or something!

Cheers guys.
 

hairblues

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@Raz Can i ask you about shedding?

I am on minoxidil now for about 3 months.

2 weeks in i shed heavy for 2 weeks...then by 5th week i saw some signs of regrowth.

I was shedding both long and short hairs before the medications.

I have complete stopped shedding short hairs (which is good they were short cycling for few years) BUT my long hairs still shed on and off pretty heavy...(I'm a woman my hair is very long past shoulders)

I am wondering if the minxodil is going to eventually slow this down as well.
 
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