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dont give up IBM, hm is out the door.
Serious question: Should I just give up the fight?
- Thread starter Chadman
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ibm, at least you can have the body
most girls would much rather be with a bald guy with a six pack and huge arms than a fat out of shape guy who's nw0.
most girls would much rather be with a bald guy with a six pack and huge arms than a fat out of shape guy who's nw0.
I'm a bit bummed that my abs are assymetrical. One side is higher than the other side. It is better than being fat, but no where nearly as good looking as symetrical abs. I read that it is genetic and there is nothing I can do about it. It is like trying to make your forehead lines change location.
But I must point out that being a construction worker could ruin your body if you are in the sun or injure yourself with constant stress. There is a trade off. You need money to look good. That is how you pay for the best foods. But yeah, I would not work 60 hours a week if it meant I can't go to the gym or research hair loss. Got to go for the middle ground.
But I must point out that being a construction worker could ruin your body if you are in the sun or injure yourself with constant stress. There is a trade off. You need money to look good. That is how you pay for the best foods. But yeah, I would not work 60 hours a week if it meant I can't go to the gym or research hair loss. Got to go for the middle ground.
ginald
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tchehov said:
dear tchehov,
i thought we were all bald on here....isn't that the whole point of this site?
anyway, you young lads need a balanced view of hairloss from all quarters and me and dukshybabe are doing just that.
it's a free service to you lads....we been there and got the t-shirt.
just looking to help...peace.
I've only been reading about hair loss for a couple of weeks and am not certain why you and dukshy have reached your conclusions. Is it for one of the following reasons or something else?
1. You tried various treatments and they didn't work for you.
2. You have not seen any evidence that anything does help maintain or improve.
3. Any improvement or maintenance some people have had is wishful thinking or would have happened anyway.
4. There is no guarantee on any product (which would be impossible anyway if it only works for some).
Just interested.
1. You tried various treatments and they didn't work for you.
2. You have not seen any evidence that anything does help maintain or improve.
3. Any improvement or maintenance some people have had is wishful thinking or would have happened anyway.
4. There is no guarantee on any product (which would be impossible anyway if it only works for some).
Just interested.
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You know, ginwald seems to be the only person on this entire sight that seems to understand that my bluntness and sarcasm is not made to hurt and degrade anyone. In fact, ginwald, I'm sure, you and I are just trying to help these young guys face the very rude, crude, and harsh fact, that the rest of their lives will include one factor that they just still cannot face: they will be bald men! They may as well hope that winning the state lottery, or being visited by Santa Claus, will give them everything they want, and solve all their problems. If only that was true. Of course, when you're a teenager, you easily believe such nonsense. I understand the insults thrown my way- as I'm sure you do too. Part of growing up is accepting reality, and these guys will have to do that. Strand by strand by strand![/b]
ginald
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pratc said:
pratc....you asked some questions and you deserve some answers:
1. i was gullible enough to try minoxidil from a "reputable clinic" (sorry dukshy, have i gone down in your estimation?....i was much younger).
didnt work and i frankly wouldnt have known if it was just smelly water.
do YOU know if your stuff is genuine, pratc?
2. show me anyone who has grown a full head of hair from snake oil. refer to dukshy's comments elsewhere on bruce willis.
3. probably.
4. its a piss poor product that can't give you a guarantee....no guarantee means it doesnt work. otherwise they'd promise you your money back if they were confident it worked.
it's ok to be bald, folks....honest. only my hair has dropped out....whereas with these snake oils, it could be other body parts dropping off.
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collegechemistrystudent said:
what are the best foods in your opinion?
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GINALD,
Propecia and Dutasteride are the best hair MAINTENANCE products out there. Regrowth is no guarantee but those drugs will maintain your current hair for the vast majority of people so they end up going bald maybe 15 years later than they would have originally. Don't deny that that's a huge benefit, especially if we're talking about age 50 instead of 35. Half of people age 50 are balding.
Propecia and Dutasteride are the best hair MAINTENANCE products out there. Regrowth is no guarantee but those drugs will maintain your current hair for the vast majority of people so they end up going bald maybe 15 years later than they would have originally. Don't deny that that's a huge benefit, especially if we're talking about age 50 instead of 35. Half of people age 50 are balding.
Ginald. you said, “do YOU know if your stuff is genuine, pratc?â€
Well, I'm not young and have been going bald since my late 30s. I've never wanted to change my hair or considered trying to do anything about it (I didn't know there were ways and anyway I was happy). The first I knew about my bald spot was when a colleague tapped me on the head in front of others! I wasn't really bothered and soon became totally not bothered.
When I was at university some of my friends were balding and I never really noticed or considered it detrimental for them. It's only now when I'm looking into this for my son that I thought about those days 30 years ago. In fact after 'studying' hair loss for the last couple of weeks I now look at how many young people are going bald. I can't help myself. I never looked before. Perhaps there is a moral here. Perhaps the younger people perceive themselves as looking dramatically different and people specifically noticing them for their thinning hair. This then becomes more of an issue; more self-conscious – a vicious circle. Unfortunately, there are people out there in the world who will be thoughtless and mock and say inappropriate cruel remarks. Some girls may want the model, good looking type man with lots of hair. In my experience it is often the shallow type girls/ladies that then become discontented with their husband/partner when they start to age and lose the ‘perfect’ look. The non-shallow girls usually don’t care. Of course there are exceptions. Anyway, it seems to me after reading many hours this last week that certain substances do work for some. Some people’s success may be just part of a cycle of hair. I stopped balding at about 48. Why? I don’t know. I did not take anything. If I had started taking something at 47 I could now be saying it was down to substance x, y and z.
My son will try something. I wish topicals were less hit and miss. But, if he were not to try something now, we could be looking back in a couple of years thinking … I wonder if …
I’m not totally convinced but I could not say as you and duk. say, that nothing works and it’s a waste of time and money. I’m a scientist and I’m still open minded.
Well, I'm not young and have been going bald since my late 30s. I've never wanted to change my hair or considered trying to do anything about it (I didn't know there were ways and anyway I was happy). The first I knew about my bald spot was when a colleague tapped me on the head in front of others! I wasn't really bothered and soon became totally not bothered.
When I was at university some of my friends were balding and I never really noticed or considered it detrimental for them. It's only now when I'm looking into this for my son that I thought about those days 30 years ago. In fact after 'studying' hair loss for the last couple of weeks I now look at how many young people are going bald. I can't help myself. I never looked before. Perhaps there is a moral here. Perhaps the younger people perceive themselves as looking dramatically different and people specifically noticing them for their thinning hair. This then becomes more of an issue; more self-conscious – a vicious circle. Unfortunately, there are people out there in the world who will be thoughtless and mock and say inappropriate cruel remarks. Some girls may want the model, good looking type man with lots of hair. In my experience it is often the shallow type girls/ladies that then become discontented with their husband/partner when they start to age and lose the ‘perfect’ look. The non-shallow girls usually don’t care. Of course there are exceptions. Anyway, it seems to me after reading many hours this last week that certain substances do work for some. Some people’s success may be just part of a cycle of hair. I stopped balding at about 48. Why? I don’t know. I did not take anything. If I had started taking something at 47 I could now be saying it was down to substance x, y and z.
My son will try something. I wish topicals were less hit and miss. But, if he were not to try something now, we could be looking back in a couple of years thinking … I wonder if …
I’m not totally convinced but I could not say as you and duk. say, that nothing works and it’s a waste of time and money. I’m a scientist and I’m still open minded.
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good post practc and good luck to your son.
finasteride or dutasteride may prevent your son from getting prostate cancer, the most common cancer in men.
I'm sure many people don't notice that a NW2 is balding, but they still think something about his face does not look as good as another guy's face, when the hair is the main reason. I looked at many many guys who have good looking faces and bad looking ones, and surprise surprise, and extremely disproportionate number of the good looking faced guys had perfect hair lines, telling me that the hair line contributes dramatically to our perception of a man's face.
It is hard for people to stay very good looking. when someone falls out, they get dumped. This happens to people who are not so good looking too, but it is much easier to stay average looking, so you don't see it quite as much. But even the "non-shallow" women are just as "shallow". They just are not able to get a good looking guy so they take the next best thing.
If you see a very pretty, intelligent woman with a very fat, poor, short man, then you can say she does not care about appearance. Until, then, all the women you see dating average or ugly guys are just getting the best they think they can get, and the guy may have money or be tall or have a large penis, which can make up for moderate appearance differences.
I'm sure many people don't notice that a NW2 is balding, but they still think something about his face does not look as good as another guy's face, when the hair is the main reason. I looked at many many guys who have good looking faces and bad looking ones, and surprise surprise, and extremely disproportionate number of the good looking faced guys had perfect hair lines, telling me that the hair line contributes dramatically to our perception of a man's face.
It is hard for people to stay very good looking. when someone falls out, they get dumped. This happens to people who are not so good looking too, but it is much easier to stay average looking, so you don't see it quite as much. But even the "non-shallow" women are just as "shallow". They just are not able to get a good looking guy so they take the next best thing.
If you see a very pretty, intelligent woman with a very fat, poor, short man, then you can say she does not care about appearance. Until, then, all the women you see dating average or ugly guys are just getting the best they think they can get, and the guy may have money or be tall or have a large penis, which can make up for moderate appearance differences.
Hi CCS. I hear what you are saying and no doubt there is some truth in some of it.
You said,"Until, then, all the women you see dating average or ugly guys are just getting the best they think they can get, and the guy may have money or be tall or ...".
There are a couple of things you missed off and they are personality and confidence. Both can be worked on but it is difficult. You can be building your confidence over quite along time then a cruel remark or rebuff can knock you back. I think someone has to believe in themselves. My son's had a couple of girl friends, yet one of his friends is below average looking, not fit (dumpy), unreliable and laid back. He manages to go straight from one girl friend to another (and good looking ones). He is calm and confident especially in chatting, takes risks on asking them out and is not ruffled if he is told no. Others who have success often get to know a girl so they can (each) see the real person and the friendship can develop. Perhaps join clubs where the chances of matching are higher. It's a two way process. Then when things feel right and the chance of a rebuff is small they make their move. It's easier said than done and to be honest I'm glad I don't have to go through it again! I honestly believe after familiarity and time a girl would not 'notice' the hair though it can be difficult to get to that stage
You said,"Until, then, all the women you see dating average or ugly guys are just getting the best they think they can get, and the guy may have money or be tall or ...".
There are a couple of things you missed off and they are personality and confidence. Both can be worked on but it is difficult. You can be building your confidence over quite along time then a cruel remark or rebuff can knock you back. I think someone has to believe in themselves. My son's had a couple of girl friends, yet one of his friends is below average looking, not fit (dumpy), unreliable and laid back. He manages to go straight from one girl friend to another (and good looking ones). He is calm and confident especially in chatting, takes risks on asking them out and is not ruffled if he is told no. Others who have success often get to know a girl so they can (each) see the real person and the friendship can develop. Perhaps join clubs where the chances of matching are higher. It's a two way process. Then when things feel right and the chance of a rebuff is small they make their move. It's easier said than done and to be honest I'm glad I don't have to go through it again! I honestly believe after familiarity and time a girl would not 'notice' the hair though it can be difficult to get to that stage
there is a small amount of truth to what you said. I say a small amount because even though it is true that extreme shyness is bad, the vast majority of people are not shy, which makes your comment irrelevant.
Let me explain confidence to you:
If a hot guy does not walk over and ask a woman out, she will say he is not confident enough, and vent to her friends about it.
If a hot guy does not flirt back when a woman hits on him, because he is not interested, then she will say he is a stuck up jerk.
If an ugly guy hits on a woman and is confident when he does it, she will say he is too cocky.
If an ugly guy hits on a woman and is shy when he does it, she will say he is too shy, and if he uses any reference to sex in his conversation, she will say he is a creep, even though she'd love to hear that from a hot guy.
If a guy who is in here league does not come over and hit on her, she will say he is not confident enough.
No woman will say she is not pretty enough to get the guy who turned her down. When women tell ugly guys that women are too self conscious to hit on hot guys, the women know they can easily get the ugly guy, and are affraid that some day she will have to date one. The ugly or average guy hearing this thinks, "oh, she is thinks she is not good enough for me. I need to raise her self confidence by complimenting her." Many people are too shy to walk up to a hottie, and too shy to be the first to lean in for a kiss or suggest they go have sex. However, every wants the kissing and sex. Many women blame the guy for not letting the fun happen by making the moves, because she is too scared to do it herself. Rather than make it her goal to improve herself, many women just get upset at guys who lack that confidence.
So there you have it. Women want a hot guy or an equal guy or a least a good looking guy who is confident enough to come over to her and make stuff happen. That does not mean that confidence will help an ugly guy AT ALL.
If your appearance is at least are a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10, confidence will help you get a hot woman.
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Personality:
I hear many guys say they want to go talk to a hot woman and see if she has a good personality and is more than just a pretty face. The only reason the guys say this is they know she will reject them and they want a reason to reject her, so they can maintain the believe that they are at least in her league. The fact is, she will probably not try to lead them on, and therefore will not help the conversation along. They will then use that as evidence that she is boring. The fact is she is much more interesting when she talks to a guy she likes.
Also, when people talk to good looking people, they tend to ignore or accept flaws and notice or invent good stuff about them, and do the opposite when they are getting hit on by someone who does not meet their appearance standards.
You can be the funniest man on the plannet. If a woman thinks you are trying to date her, and she does not like how you look, there is a good chance she will try hard not to laugh just so she can give you the brush off. And even if she does laugh, there is a good chance she won't date you. Extreme humor can get you a woman who looks a little better than you, but not a lot better than you, unless you are at least an 8, then you can go higher.
As for most people who are not super comedians, and just average comedians, you will find that most people have decent personalities. There is a myth that people are searching for a person with a good personality. Most people have one already. We just don't show it unless we like someone or don't think they like us. We all want someone who looks good.
There is love and romance and kids and all kinds of other stuff besides sex, but we want all this stuff with someone who is sexy.
That is why I don't take what jacky says too seriously.
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A chess player can find another chess play. A Simpsons fan can find another Simpsons fan. If you like them in this way, they will almost certainly like you in that way. But appearance is different. Just because you think someone is sexy does not mean they will think you are sexy.
Because you can get all the personality factors you want, but can't get the looks factors you want, the appearance factor is more rare, and thus seems more valuable. Also, you can see what someone looks like when you first see them, but you don't know what they have in common with you when you first see them, which makes the appearance seem more valuable.
You can get all the other relationship stuff from friendships, but you can only get sex from one place.
Finally, it is a myth that you must choose between a nice ugly person and jerk pretty person. If you can get a pretty person at all, because you are pretty, then you can easily go get one who is nice too. There are just as many nice and mean people at all appearance levels.
Let me explain confidence to you:
If a hot guy does not walk over and ask a woman out, she will say he is not confident enough, and vent to her friends about it.
If a hot guy does not flirt back when a woman hits on him, because he is not interested, then she will say he is a stuck up jerk.
If an ugly guy hits on a woman and is confident when he does it, she will say he is too cocky.
If an ugly guy hits on a woman and is shy when he does it, she will say he is too shy, and if he uses any reference to sex in his conversation, she will say he is a creep, even though she'd love to hear that from a hot guy.
If a guy who is in here league does not come over and hit on her, she will say he is not confident enough.
No woman will say she is not pretty enough to get the guy who turned her down. When women tell ugly guys that women are too self conscious to hit on hot guys, the women know they can easily get the ugly guy, and are affraid that some day she will have to date one. The ugly or average guy hearing this thinks, "oh, she is thinks she is not good enough for me. I need to raise her self confidence by complimenting her." Many people are too shy to walk up to a hottie, and too shy to be the first to lean in for a kiss or suggest they go have sex. However, every wants the kissing and sex. Many women blame the guy for not letting the fun happen by making the moves, because she is too scared to do it herself. Rather than make it her goal to improve herself, many women just get upset at guys who lack that confidence.
So there you have it. Women want a hot guy or an equal guy or a least a good looking guy who is confident enough to come over to her and make stuff happen. That does not mean that confidence will help an ugly guy AT ALL.
If your appearance is at least are a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10, confidence will help you get a hot woman.
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Personality:
I hear many guys say they want to go talk to a hot woman and see if she has a good personality and is more than just a pretty face. The only reason the guys say this is they know she will reject them and they want a reason to reject her, so they can maintain the believe that they are at least in her league. The fact is, she will probably not try to lead them on, and therefore will not help the conversation along. They will then use that as evidence that she is boring. The fact is she is much more interesting when she talks to a guy she likes.
Also, when people talk to good looking people, they tend to ignore or accept flaws and notice or invent good stuff about them, and do the opposite when they are getting hit on by someone who does not meet their appearance standards.
You can be the funniest man on the plannet. If a woman thinks you are trying to date her, and she does not like how you look, there is a good chance she will try hard not to laugh just so she can give you the brush off. And even if she does laugh, there is a good chance she won't date you. Extreme humor can get you a woman who looks a little better than you, but not a lot better than you, unless you are at least an 8, then you can go higher.
As for most people who are not super comedians, and just average comedians, you will find that most people have decent personalities. There is a myth that people are searching for a person with a good personality. Most people have one already. We just don't show it unless we like someone or don't think they like us. We all want someone who looks good.
There is love and romance and kids and all kinds of other stuff besides sex, but we want all this stuff with someone who is sexy.
That is why I don't take what jacky says too seriously.
-----------------------------
A chess player can find another chess play. A Simpsons fan can find another Simpsons fan. If you like them in this way, they will almost certainly like you in that way. But appearance is different. Just because you think someone is sexy does not mean they will think you are sexy.
Because you can get all the personality factors you want, but can't get the looks factors you want, the appearance factor is more rare, and thus seems more valuable. Also, you can see what someone looks like when you first see them, but you don't know what they have in common with you when you first see them, which makes the appearance seem more valuable.
You can get all the other relationship stuff from friendships, but you can only get sex from one place.
Finally, it is a myth that you must choose between a nice ugly person and jerk pretty person. If you can get a pretty person at all, because you are pretty, then you can easily go get one who is nice too. There are just as many nice and mean people at all appearance levels.
Yes, women (and men) can be fickle. Initial impressions - looks and personality are important but I have seen on numerous occasions your stated 'confidence and personality postulates' broken and I'm not suggesting I know all the reasons why they are broken.
Edit. One thing I think we may agree on is that modern media raises expectations of girls (and maybe boys) as to what they should 'get'.
Edit. One thing I think we may agree on is that modern media raises expectations of girls (and maybe boys) as to what they should 'get'.
Chadman
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Great comments everyone.
This is going to sound cliche I know, but one thing my mother always used to say was, "Smile and the world smiles with you." Growing up I used to ignore it and her other polyanna optimism, but over the years I've come to understand that it's really quite true.
I truly think that the impact hairloss has, including those that started to lose prematurely, is more about our own perceptions rather than that of anyone else. A lot of us, myself included (although not so much now), place a lot higher importance on areas that we deem to be insufficient.
Anyway, I know we all know that. Nothing new. Point is, I think the problem is more in our heads than on our heads. That doesn't make it any better of course, but we have to live with it just like other guys have to live with their perceived faults: Shortness, pronounced physical features (big nose, ears, whatever), skin color, body type (too skinny? too big?), etc. Yes, ultimately they affect the scope of dating possibility, but so too does everything else.
So... smile, like my mom used to say, and the world really will smile along with you. Hairloss, or whatever other imperfection you happen to embody, can be embraced.
Sorry, just feeling a little weird about things today. Cheers to you all for your positivity and inquisitiveness!
This is going to sound cliche I know, but one thing my mother always used to say was, "Smile and the world smiles with you." Growing up I used to ignore it and her other polyanna optimism, but over the years I've come to understand that it's really quite true.
I truly think that the impact hairloss has, including those that started to lose prematurely, is more about our own perceptions rather than that of anyone else. A lot of us, myself included (although not so much now), place a lot higher importance on areas that we deem to be insufficient.
Anyway, I know we all know that. Nothing new. Point is, I think the problem is more in our heads than on our heads. That doesn't make it any better of course, but we have to live with it just like other guys have to live with their perceived faults: Shortness, pronounced physical features (big nose, ears, whatever), skin color, body type (too skinny? too big?), etc. Yes, ultimately they affect the scope of dating possibility, but so too does everything else.
So... smile, like my mom used to say, and the world really will smile along with you. Hairloss, or whatever other imperfection you happen to embody, can be embraced.
Sorry, just feeling a little weird about things today. Cheers to you all for your positivity and inquisitiveness!
slaphead
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Chadman said:
I genuinely believe that hair-loss MAY be easier to take depending on how you looked before the hairloss started. Am just being honest when I state that I was considered a very good looking guy when young (til mid 20's - when this damned hair loss REALLy kicked in! :evil: ) My borther is a few years older than me - I saw what was happening to him in advance - and knew that the same would happen to me...! But: (sounds cocky, but only being truthful) - out of the two of us, I was the better looking (I know, sounds cocky, but only being truthful!). My brother SEEMED to take easier to hairloss than me - but I believe that this is down to him having attracted less female attention pre-male pattern baldness.(?) The worst thing to me was noticing over time the undeniable reduction of glances from passing females :cry: - and of social interaction with them being totally different, as it is today :cry: . Thankfully I'm very happily married to a wonderful lady - who (I'm very lucky to state) is beautiful. (It would just be nice to be good looking next to her!...For her and me! :cry: ) It seems like literally a different life, to think back to how I was. I sincerely believe that if I looked differently before (and thus attracted less female attention) that going bald would have been a lot easier, as i would not have noticed the change so much in female attention.
Again, I KNOW that this post will sound cocky
- but am only stating truth. 8) However, what I CAN be very grateful for is having looked like I did - although the change seems harder to take(?) Whaddyah think?