Setipiprant For Hair Loss - Mega Thread

[Swoop]

Agree, just because it makes sense on a theoretical level does not mean it actually works...

That's the most funny thing. People who are knowledgeable about the pathology of Androgenetic Alopecia would never argue that the prostaglandin hypothesis makes much sense. The evidence is extremely weak for that to argue. Then again who actually has sufficient knowledge of Androgenetic Alopecia in the forums?

It's simple that's why the general public likes it and are attracted to it.

Also if people see one glimmer of hope most lose all rationality, it's a fascinating phenomenon.

In the 90's researchers already have shown the possible role of prostglandins in hair follicle cycling. It was hypothesized in the year 2000 that prostaglandins might have a role in the micro inflammation that is seen sometimes with Androgenetic Alopecia (and very late Androgenetic Alopecia fibrosis)

Do prostaglandins have a role in hair follicle cycling or are involved in the inflammatory aspect of Androgenetic Alopecia? Most likely, yes.

A cure or working upstream in the chain of Androgenetic Alopecia? Fck no, highly unlikely lmao. If it only was THAT easy.

Cotsarelis failing again probably.

 

[Frog]

lmao

It's the morally superior streak in your skepticism that destroys the impact of your statement. Fanaticism isn't rational, but neither is ego-guarding cynicism.

 

[Hairloss23]

Dear Hairloss23,

Are there any platforms where I can read any results? I am considering to try it out for myself as well but first want to read at least one story that might convince me of it's effectiveness. You can also PM me if you would prefer that.

Oh how your tone changes:

Who gives a damn crap about what Kythera demonstrated or who bought them as long as this **** DOESN'T WORK? (Sorry for my language. I am just frustrated)

Agree, just because it makes sense on a theoretical level does not mean it actually works...

If you haven't even tried to look for results then of course you will not find any. All the reports at the moment are anecdotal because like I said the trial results have no been released. If you want to find anecdotal reports you will not find them on public forums where 90% of the guys are just as uneducated about the drug as you are and almost everyone who is on it has gotten there's from a supplier notorious for sending out bunk batches of treatments. And you've gone from claiming it doesn't work to "considering trying it out" in literally the space of 5 hours and 37 minutes. What happened in that time? Did God come down from the heavens and enlighten you? Show you the promised path to a luscious NW1? No, you read my comment and that's what changed your mind, and now you want to read more like it, well guess what you won't find them here and I don't see why I should help you. Wait till the trials are released and then say whatever you like about PGD2 inhibition.

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HL123, sorry to ask you a noob query, ...

Is there any indication of what seti will cost when it comes to market? I read that the dosage being trialed is 1 mg/day, which would imply a tremendous cost if bought from the Kane shop. That's not a middle class drug.

Maybe $100/month is standard for these drugs, or some other numbers, but I don't know this to be true.

No surprisingly enough I do not know how much Seti will cost when it comes to market, I'd imagine it would be a competitive price so probably around that of Propecia (not generic finasteride). I'm pretty sure the trial dosage is 1gram a day not 1mg, but I would be surprised if they were not trying out multiple dosage amounts. It will always be expensive at the Kane Shop because Kane knows desperate people will always be their to buy his hair loss "treatments" regardless of if they are legit or not.

 

[INT]

Oh how your tone changes:




If you haven't even tried to look for results then of course you will not find any. All the reports at the moment are anecdotal because like I said the trial results have no been released. If you want to find anecdotal reports you will not find them on public forums where 90% of the guys are just as uneducated about the drug as you are and almost everyone who is on it has gotten there's from a supplier notorious for sending out bunk batches of treatments. And you've gone from claiming it doesn't work to "considering trying it out" in literally the space of 5 hours and 37 minutes. What happened in that time? Did God come down from the heavens and enlighten you? Show you the promised path to a luscious NW1? No, you read my comment and that's what changed your mind, and now you want to read more like it, well guess what you won't find them here and I don't see why I should help you. Wait till the trials are released and then say whatever you like about PGD2 inhibition.

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No surprisingly enough I do not know how much Seti will cost when it comes to market, I'd imagine it would be a competitive price so probably around that of Propecia (not generic finasteride). I'm pretty sure the trial dosage is 1gram a day not 1mg, but I would be surprised if they were not trying out multiple dosage amounts. It will always be expensive at the Kane Shop because Kane knows desperate people will always be their to buy his hair loss "treatments" regardless of if they are legit or not.

I did not say it does not work. I only said that I haven't seen any results that proof it actually works. Believe me, I really want this stuff to work. I only don't get the hype train... I still would be very open to trying it out since that would be the best way to see if it would work for me or not.

 

[Norwood One]

Not to be negative, but seeing as how Swiss just suddenly stopped updating, I'm guessing his regrowth was not as he, or we, expected and stagnated.

I'm hoping i'm wrong.

 

[Hairloss23]

Not to be negative, but seeing as how Swiss just suddenly stopped updating, I'm guessing his regrowth was not as he, or we, expected and stagnated.

I'm hoping i'm wrong.

https://www.reddit.com/r/tressless/comments/3zhcvg/what_happened_to_swisstemples/

I know you have never contributed to the hair loss forums by doing a log but I don't think many people realize how difficult it is to get good pictures of regrowth, Swiss will update in due time but stop acting like you need to see another pic. Besides, his regimen is focused on regrowing hair not maintaining, Seti does not regrow hair and Swiss was already maintaining so his log really is only minutely about Setipiprant.

 

[Swoop]

Not to be negative, but seeing as how Swiss just suddenly stopped updating, I'm guessing his regrowth was not as he, or we, expected and stagnated.

I'm hoping i'm wrong.

How surprising?!?! LOL.

Off course he stopped updating. He is a charlatan (false hope bringer). Claiming big results and having the "cure" (for the second time) but meanwhile lying about his baseline pictures and getting tufts of pubes of hair on his head while sitting in the mirror 24/7 applying treatments. Even Thamim Hamid deserves more respect with his Theradome lol.

Then again like I said people lose all rationality when they see a glimmer of hope. Whether it's follicept, trx2 or some "ghetto protocol" it doesn't matter really.

Androgen/AR angle, minoxidil and estradiol that's pretty much it unfortunately.

 

[DontWant2BeBald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/tressless/comments/3zhcvg/what_happened_to_swisstemples/

I know you have never contributed to the hair loss forums by doing a log but I don't think many people realize how difficult it is to get good pictures of regrowth, Swiss will update in due time but stop acting like you need to see another pic. Besides, his regimen is focused on regrowing hair not maintaining, Seti does not regrow hair and Swiss was already maintaining so his log really is only minutely about Setipiprant.

any one of the private forums ever failed to maintain with dutasteride?

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How surprising?!?! LOL.

Off course he stopped updating. He is a charlatan (false hope bringer). Claiming big results and having the "cure" (for the second time) but meanwhile lying about his baseline pictures and getting tufts of pubes of hair on his head while sitting in the mirror 24/7 applying treatments. Even Thamim Hamid deserves more respect with his Theradome lol.

Then again like I said people lose all rationality when they see a glimmer of hope. Whether it's follicept, trx2 or some "ghetto protocol" it doesn't matter really.

Androgen/AR angle, minoxidil and estradiol that's pretty much it unfortunately.

What angle does minoxadil hit? It could be the protaglandins right? I do agree that there was way to much hype around this topic though, people expect too much.

 

[Swoop]

What angle does minoxadil hit? It could be the protaglandins right? I do agree that there was way to much hype around this topic though, people expect too much.

BCL-2/BAX, B-catenin (WNT pathway), PGE2, ERK/AKT, Adenosine upregulation, VEGF (among other growth factors), P21...

These are some targets that minoxidil may act upon from the top of my head as shown in literature.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I'm reluctant to start minoxidil because it seems like a fake treatment, if you stop taking it briefly you end up just as bad if you had never taken it or worse. It's like treating knee problems with pain killers rather than surgery/physiotherapy.

I may be misunderstanding.

 

[Norwood One]

[–]straponheart 5 points 5 days ago
I think Swiss' protocol is probably not the 'cure' some people want it to be, but I don't know that we can discount the prostaglandin paradigm at this point.

Well now we have a decent amount of people trying Seti
​

The Seti from Kane was proven fake by a lab, so those cases need to be discounted. Moreover, we have no idea what the correct doseage or vehicle is so that presents issues as well.







Who is this Kane fellow and why does he sell fake chit?

 

[Wolf Pack]

How surprising?!?! LOL.

Off course he stopped updating. He is a charlatan (false hope bringer). Claiming big results and having the "cure" (for the second time) but meanwhile lying about his baseline pictures and getting tufts of pubes of hair on his head while sitting in the mirror 24/7 applying treatments. Even Thamim Hamid deserves more respect with his Theradome lol.

Then again like I said people lose all rationality when they see a glimmer of hope. Whether it's follicept, trx2 or some "ghetto protocol" it doesn't matter really.

Androgen/AR angle, minoxidil and estradiol that's pretty much it unfortunately.

There are some people who get more growth on just finasteride or Min.

I haven't really researched Seti but it will be interesting to see if stopping something down the chain can halt Androgenetic Alopecia as effectively as dealing with DHT. My guess is no. But until there are large scale trials, double blinded, placebo, for Androgenetic Alopecia patients we won't know.

 

[Swoop]

I'm reluctant to start minoxidil because it seems like a fake treatment, if you stop taking it briefly you end up just as bad if you had never taken it or worse. It's like treating knee problems with pain killers rather than surgery/physiotherapy.

I may be misunderstanding.

For many people minoxidil doesn't work well or not at all. But then again many people don't respond to minoxidil. It is thought that this happens because some people lack a enzyme (sulfotransferase). The people that do respond often do get cosmetic benefit and then there is a smaller group of very people who respond very well and they can get very good cosmetic coverage with minoxidil.

No harm in trying it out and then just stopping the treatment if you are not happy with the cosmetic coverage it gives. Who knows perhaps you will be that guy who responds very well to the treatment. Although I suggest to use it in combination with something like finasteride.

 

[Hairloss23]

Who is this Kane fellow and why does he sell fake chit?

He is a scammer from China, the reason he sells fake **** is a) because it's easier to manufacture than real **** and b) as he has no competition, his customers have to keep coming back to him regardless of if they get a fake batch or not.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

For many people minoxidil doesn't work well or not at all. But then again many people don't respond to minoxidil. It is thought that this happens because some people lack a enzyme (sulfotransferase). The people that do respond often do get cosmetic benefit and then there is a smaller group of very people who respond very well and they can get very good cosmetic coverage with minoxidil.

No harm in trying it out and then just stopping the treatment if you are not happy with the cosmetic coverage it gives. Who knows perhaps you will be that guy who responds very well to the treatment. Although I suggest to use it in combination with something like finasteride.

If you try it in combination with finasteride, how do you know if you are responding to minoxidil?

 

[Swoop]

If you try it in combination with finasteride, how do you know if you are responding to minoxidil?

Good question. That's why you should try to use them independently if you can.

eg you start minoxidil for 4-5 months without finasteride. Happy with the results it gives you? Continue. Not happy? Drop it and don't use it ever again. Start finasteride after.

Another example would be that you are 1 year on finasteride and then try out minoxidil to evaluate the effect of minoxidil better. At least leave some time between both of them so you can gauge better how well minoxidil works for you. No sense in staying on minoxidil if you don't respond well to it.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I'm travelling now for another few weeks. My plan is once I get back I'll go to a doctor and ask for a finasteride prescription. I tried that with a doctor before travelling but he pissed me off with his ignorance and I decided to wait another month or two and go with a better doctor.

I'm hoping the better doctor (I know who I'm going to) will also be willing to prescribe an aromatase inhibitor. I'm worried about finasteride because I already have moderate ED.

I can add minoxidil in a year, that's a good idea. Thank you.

 

[Swoop]

I'm travelling now for another few weeks. My plan is once I get back I'll go to a doctor and ask for a finasteride prescription. I tried that with a doctor before travelling but he pissed me off with his ignorance and I decided to wait another month or two and go with a better doctor.

I'm hoping the better doctor (I know who I'm going to) will also be willing to prescribe an aromatase inhibitor. I'm worried about finasteride because I already have moderate ED.

I can add minoxidil in a year, that's a good idea. Thank you.

Yeah some doctors are a joke. Find someone who is willing to think and work with you. I switched from doctor too. The one I have now currently is way better.

I think it's a smart move to go with finasteride asap. Minoxidil can wait.

Perhaps you can get a baseline of E2, if you are worried a potential increase? Then measure it again while being on finasteride. I doubt that you want to use a aromatase inhibitor on a continual basis. Then again I haven't looked that deep into that so you probably know more about that.

Nothing wrong with starting with a low dosage with finasteride too and working your way up. If it exacerbates your ED then just drop it immediately.

Good luck man !

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There are some people who get more growth on just finasteride or Min.

I haven't really researched Seti but it will be interesting to see if stopping something down the chain can halt Androgenetic Alopecia as effectively as dealing with DHT. My guess is no. But until there are large scale trials, double blinded, placebo, for Androgenetic Alopecia patients we won't know.

Jup definitely Wolf_Pack, no contest.

About your second point, we already know that to some degree and I am curious if you agree with me. You work somewhere research related right?

In terms of anti-androgens (AR antagonists) and 5ar2 inhibitors we see that something happens, at least in a subset group of people. Cosmetic improvement right? One just has to look at the success section here and see how people can get literally good improvement of the hair that is notable not only by the person itself but by the observer too. Cosmetic improvement just often doesn't go unnoticed, or actually any hair related changes.

In fact we see the same happen too with minoxidil. After all that is how the compound got discovered for hair growth and to no surprise other compounds with similar biological activity induce hair growth too some extent too (diazoxide, pinacidil etc.) Case reports of all those have been shown.

Exactly the same thing with PGF2a. Also discovered by accident. Both bimatoprost and latanoprost (both analogues of pgf2a similar biological activity) have shown to induce hair growth too.

If we look further we see several case reports that have been released either because hair growth was noticed or hair alterations, some examples;

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/46/suppl_59/PA4293 (Unexpected hair growth induced by gefitinib treatment in two patients with EGFR gene mutation-positive adenocarcinoma of the lung)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24153140 (Partial reversal of androgenetic alopecia with methotrexate therapy for psoriasis.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3090984 (Valproic acid, curly hair and weight gain)

I could dump more but you see where I'm heading at. Case reports are often shown or simply described when such hair changes are seen.

Now Androgenetic Alopecia in men is quite prevalent. Let's be honest. If you look at older men quite many people suffer from Androgenetic Alopecia to some extent.

So in terms of setipiprant, ultimately it's a selective DP2 antagonist. However there are several other compounds with the same biological activity! Even stronger ones. Even setipiprant has failed 7 clinical trials not related to Androgenetic Alopecia.

So ultimately that means we have hundreds of people that have been implicated in clinical trials that focuses on DP2 antagonism right? Well is anybody going to tell me that nobody of these participants actually suffers from Androgenetic Alopecia? That would be foolish to assume wouldn't it.

That begs the question; Why haven't hair related changes been reported in all of these clinical trials or at least case reports shown? Compounds that hit the androgen/AR angle do give cosmetic improvement in some people so why wouldn't DP2 antagonist if they actually work upstream?

Remember Kythera argues that it works like this Androgens > AR > PGD2 synthase > PGD2 production > PGD2 receptor > hair loss

It would be logical to assume that if the pathway works like this antagonizing the PGD2 receptor would yield some cosmetic improvement in some people too. Actually it should probably work even better, at least some compounds. When we look at the AR angle for example we don't have viable treatment that antagonize the AR sufficiently. RU58841 for example is only able to block 70% of DHT, being already a very potent anti-androgen. In terms of PGD2 receptor antagonizing compounds have run clinical trials that pretty much show full antagonistic activity towards the receptor.

This already to me displays that it's extremely unlikely that it can stop hair loss as efficiently as dealing with DHT.

Sure there is always a possibility that these hair growth effects went unnoticed. But in hundreds of people dude? How big are those odds? Come on.

Then people always argue; But but dude, it's Cotsarelis and Kythera has picked up the compound. There must be something to it!

Well yeah dude, some fun facts;

1. Cotsarelis has been wrong on multiple occasions in the past. Promising a cure 2 times. Not only that if you give Cotsarelis 2 million he will have a better hair growth agent than minoxidil and if you give him 20 millions he will give you a full head of hair. Although that might take some time. LOL, can you actually believe he said that? But it's true. This is not unique to researchers though. After all they need to hype things up, attract publicity, funding to survive etc.. I think the most cited study on PLOS goes well with this "Why Most Published Research Findings Are False""; http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124. I bet you know what I mean with this .

2. Setipiprant is bought for pocket change. Literally for pocket change.

3. If we look at drugs overall we see from the statistics that the overwhelming majority actually fails.

Ok, sure it's excellent that they are running double blinded placebo controlled trials for Androgenetic Alopecia ultimately that will give the final answer. But in terms of odds? Dude I would know where to bet my money on immediately! The odds for it to deal as effectively as dealing with DHT are low to non-existent in my opinion. If I would place my money I would say that it's going nowhere after the 2nd phase. Obviously this is not only based on the above but also on the literature provided by other researchers and discussions I have had with researchers.

Research is research though and when it doesn't actually work out we will actually learn some more.

Curious to your opinion about this all.

One thing is for sure dude. I'm happy that some of us can deal with Androgenetic Alopecia by hitting the androgen angle. I mean imagine yourself if Androgenetic Alopecia was something like cicatrial alopecia for where no single treatment has been found? Holy sh*t that would be something...

Excited for the future though. In terms of gene therapy for example;

It would be damn nice to silence that androgen receptor for a very long period of time .

 

[CurlyBird]

I imagine the reason finasteride may work better than dp2 antagonists in regrowing hair is because finasteride also ought to raise PGE2 at the same time it is diminishing the overproduction of prostaglandin D synthase. PGE2 and D2 are made from the same two parent compounds by different enzymes wherein only the production of one has been increased. Isn't this why PGE2 levels are depressed in bald scalp, because the enzyme that makes it has a diminished source of parent comopunds? I am basing this on the prostaglandin flow chart in the dermatology conference presentation video on youtube.

Finasteride should actually fix the imbalance to a significant degree, while setipiprant for instance merely blocks the damage from continuing without enhancing regeneration as PGE2 would given that prostaglandin PRODUCTION should remain unchanged. I agree that DP2 antagonists are unlikely to regrow long lost hair, but the idea that they can't arrest continuation of the balding is probably not true.

 

[Follisket]

Whereas it's very disappointing that seti doesn't seem to work nearly as well as we all hoped it would, it's still awesome that so many were willing to test it and organized group buys so quickly. That's the only way we're gonna get anywhere; testing things systematically and eliminating those that don't work.

Moving on, I guess our next objective should be to either get our hands on the right forumula for SM04554 or to find an affordable source for CB-03-01 so we can trial it at the right dose. It's just too damn scary to think there might be something that works out there and we're not using it.

Regrowth might never happen; We can't afford to not give it a try.