Study: A new RU58841 for Topical Application?

[jimmystanley]

10-4 HairLossTalk.com....but why not try and make some mula off it??..(when it's available that is).

 

[jimmystanley]

why aren't we pushing this discussion more? it sounds so promising

 

[jimmystanley]

some guys from hairlosshelp.com are using ru...any thoughts about this?

 

[stabone1979]

I want to know more about this RUM, and if I should try to acquire the RU-58841 to replace my spironolactone cream from that website. Any suggestions about this, or can anyone point me in the right direction.

 

[jimmystanley]

have a look on the hairlosshelp.com forums, they have some guys claiming that they are using it.

 

[Guest]

Hint on understanding this abstract. Read it VERY.... VERY slowly and think about each word. You'll do fine! I've put helper text in (parenthesis).

Objectives:
Acne and Androgenetic Alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia, male pattern baldness, etc) are linked to Androgen effects and therefore should IMPROVE following a topical application of antiandrogens (topical spironolactone, topical finasteride?, revivogen, crinagen, etc).

Serious side effects due to a systemic absorption, however, exclude this treatment in men (there are very powerful antiandrogens but they can't be used because they may get into the bloodstream and be unsafe. the holy grail is to find a powerful one that stays somewhat local in the scalp). Drug targeting to the sebum gland and derma papillae, however, may allow topical antiandrogen treatment in men (if they can keep it localized to the follicle's structures, it may be safer). Accomplishing this may be possible by particulate carrier systems such as solid lipid nanoparticles, SLN, which are known to support dermal targeting (they've found something that can take the active ingredient and target only the local follicle structures. they're called liposomes) Cutaneous uptake was also visualized by flourescence microscopy using dye loaded SLN (they dyed the liposomes so they could see if it did indeed keep things localized).

Methods:
The New Antiandrogen prodrug called RU58841-myristate was developed for topical therapy. (I believe this is a new version of RU58841 intended for topical application for hair loss sufferers). Ester cleavage was proved, receptor affinity and local tolerability were compared to RU58841. (they made sure it did all the same things as orally ingested RU). In contrast to native RU58841, the more lipophilic RU-myristate and nile red can be loaded into the lipid particles by hot homogenization (they found they could more easily dye the RU-myristate and track its activities during absorption than they could with traditional RU).

Results:
While receptor binding experiments proved the almost complete loss of binding to the androgen receptor, RU-myristate is rapidly metabolized to the potent antiandrogen RU58841 by the skin cells. Cellular viability was not impaired. (in a nutshell, the stuff effectively was delivered to the follicles and then transformed into a potent antiandrogen without any adverse effects. the trojan horse effect. deliver the ingredients inside the city walls and then spill out and lay everything to waste. it effectively did what propecia does from the bloodstream - it stopped the harmful binding to the androgen receptors, which should result in reversing hair loss). The new form of RU58841 known as RU58841-myristate (or "RUM") had negligible antiandrogen permeation through the skin, implying a more topical action of the drug (it didn't absorb past the skin to any noticeable extent - aka the holy grail?). Flourescent microscopy showed that the Lipid vehicle and the Nanoemulsion vehicle increased dye uptake into the skin as compared to the cream (they tried the stuff in apparently 3 different types of solutions and the lipid solution absorbed better than the cream)

Conclusions:
The new form of RU58841 known as RU58841-myristate (or "RUM") combined in a Solid Lipid Nanoparticle solution should be considered for topical antiandrogen therapy for both acne and Androgenetic Alopecia.

AKA ... a new treatment? Don't ask me where to get it, no idea

See guys they are researching things.

If anyone has a different interpretation of the above please feel free to chime in. One thing I don't know, is everything!

HairLossTalk.com

Hey HairLossTalk.com,

Where did you get this study?

 

[Felk]

Bump.

I'm just wondering if this is what stax and the other people he mentioned are using? Why isn't this being turned into a product - it seems so promising (and has seemed so, for such a long time!)

 

[Apoc]

It's not being pushed because it probably doesn't work very well and get's systemicaly absorbed despite the claims that it doesn't. I don't know why topical antiandrogens are still being researched for hairloss because if the hair could be regrown this way then chopping man's balls off would regrow all his grown hair and we all know that it doesn't. It could be good for maintaining but not for regrowth in my oppinion.

 

[Bryan]

Why isn't this being turned into a product - it seems so promising (and has seemed so, for such a long time!)

It's promising, but ONLY as a means of stopping further balding.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

It's not being pushed because it probably doesn't work very well and get's systemicaly absorbed despite the claims that it doesn't. I don't know why topical antiandrogens are still being researched for hairloss because if the hair could be regrown this way then chopping man's balls off would regrow all his grown hair and we all know that it doesn't. It could be good for maintaining but not for regrowth in my oppinion.

I doubt there's risk of any serious systemic absorption, but I agree that all you can generally expect from it is maintenenace.

Bryan

 

[Felk]

Hmm well Stax orders some of the stuff (in from china or somewhere) and splits the order in half with a friend. He said his friend has both maintained and regrown hair with it.

In any case, maintainence is a worthy goal! If its the best antiandrogen at maintaining ones hair, i'm interested!

 

[Bryan]

Hmm well Stax orders some of the stuff (in from china or somewhere) and splits the order in half with a friend. He said his friend has both maintained and regrown hair with it.

Yeah, you usually get in trouble when you try to make general statements like I just did! What I meant, of course, is that the typical RU user will probably only get maintenance and possibly a little bit of regrowth, depending on how good a responder he is, just like with Propecia.

In any case, maintainence is a worthy goal!

Yes indeed!

Bryan

 

[stax]

I dont wanna give false hope but honestely since being on RU for about 25 days the hairline vellus hairs are starting to get thicker and darker to the point where if i turn my head in the mirror and look with one eye i can see them, plus my temples have improved aswell. Switching from regular 5% Xandrox to Xandrox 5 with Retin-A, and Spin Trap C have definetly helped, but i noticed the change in the hairline just in the time frame i started RU. Im on no DHT inhibitors either, although im going to try jumping back on 1mg Propecia every 3 days. If these hairs continue to thicken i'll be a Norwood 0.

 

[Felk]

Ok stax, now im intrigued

Whatever you do make sure you don't leave these forums if you aquire a norwood 0, taking your precious RU knowledge with you

Could you pm me a link to a site or something, where you found out about getting RU?

Thanks champ

 

[stax]

Felk, there isnt a site, i just searched on the hairloss forums such as HLH and i came across a few recent reliable posters who use RU with results. One dude lives in my area so i know he isnt a bullshitter. I also added Tricomin about 2 weeks ago mabye and i think thats helping aswell. But im not on any DHT inhibitors and i dont use any other anti-androgens besides RU. I use Prox-P at night and that contains spironolactone, but ive been on it for over 1 year and it never gave me those results, it just helped with maintenance. As i said im going to re-add finasteride at 1mg every 3 days and i cant wait to see where i am by Christmas. My current regimen is.


Morning:
- RU 58841
- Dr.Lee's Xandrox 5 with Retin-A, 30 minutes after RU 58841
- Tricomin, 5 minutes after Xandrox 5 with Retin-A




Night:
- Spin Trap C
-Xandrox 15, 5 minutes after Spin Trap C
- Prox-P, about 10 minutes after Xandrox 15.


I mean on this regimen who wouldnt regrow all their hair?


- Internal finasteride will be re-added at 1mg every 3 days when it arrives this week hopefully.


Bryan should have a lot of RU studies if you want to take a look at them. If you want the info on where to get RU just let me know and i'll PM you.

 

[DP]

This is crazy - i still don't understand why this product isn't marketed and sold commercially... how do you get it? any side effects?

 

[michael barry]

DP,
I think it was Rousseau Pharmaceuticals that made the stuff and they got bought out or it was Rousseau who bought some other company out that came up with RU, etc. Anyhoo..............the new company wasn't interested in hair products and either didn't sell the patent, or sold it and the new company lacks the mullah to produce it and sell it.

Its proboably pretty expensive to make. I dont know how well one can add other topicals with it without diluting it. The good thing about an absolute receptor-blocker would be that your hair should pretty much hold the line other than age-related thinning as long as youre on it. Peptides would help the age-related thinning tremendously. For a young guy with the first signs of recession...................it would have seemingly been pretty much a cure for baldness.

I hate it too man.................

 

[stax]

michael barry, are you saying that RU 58841 would be rendered inactive if mixed with other compounds like Minoxidil, Retin-A, 17A Estradiol,ect? I want to mix RU in the same solution as these things.



Also, isnt age related thinning the same thing as male pattern baldness? I see old guys with full heads of hair still.

 

[michael barry]

Stax,

RU would proboably be better put on after your shower (and if its like fluridil, after the minoxidil application................by the way, there is a minoxidil SHAMPOO over at lipoxidil at their usual outrageous price).

I dont know if I'd mix up a batch of Retin-A, RU, minoxidil, spin traps, etc. though.......these chemicals might react with one another if stored like that. Ive heard of retin-A being mixed with minoxidil, aloe vera gel in many things...........but youve spent a lot of money on the RU, I think I'd play it safe and have a different application time for that alone and perhaps put the other chemicals on at night.

Bryan Shelton might know about "mixing" RU if anyone does. Matt500 over at HLH might know also.


What I mean by age-related thinning is this: ever see an older guy who pretty much has his old hairline, but the hair is a bit thinner, the individual hairs are thinner too, not nearly as robust as they are in youth? Not see through thin, but just older hair.

The actor Michael Douglas is a pretty fair example of this. He has no recession, the same high hairline he's always had, but the hair has aged and is a bit thinner than it was in the seventies. Most will have more thinning than he has. He has great hair for a man pushing 60.

 

[DP]

DP,
I think it was Rousseau Pharmaceuticals that made the stuff and they got bought out or it was Rousseau who bought some other company out that came up with RU, etc. Anyhoo..............the new company wasn't interested in hair products and either didn't sell the patent, or sold it and the new company lacks the mullah to produce it and sell it.

Its proboably pretty expensive to make. I dont know how well one can add other topicals with it without diluting it. The good thing about an absolute receptor-blocker would be that your hair should pretty much hold the line other than age-related thinning as long as youre on it. Peptides would help the age-related thinning tremendously. For a young guy with the first signs of recession...................it would have seemingly been pretty much a cure for baldness.

I hate it too man.................

Thanks for that information... interesting and obviously disappointing... that's horrible b/c i'm 23 and i'm holding on the hairline as much as i can... this product would be huge for me right now!! can we petition to get this product developed or something??