The Cb (breezula [clascoterone]) Community Thread

[el_duterino]

if someone had decent maintenance on finasteride or dutasteride but had to stop due to sides, then CB will work great.
Not for regrowth of course, just solid maintenance at the hairline with zero sides.
For a tiny minority of guys having bad results on finasteride even starting at a Norwood 1 like "whatevr" then Cb or anti androgen may not be the solution. No drug ever worked for 100% of the population, but CB is the best we have today.
And 100mg is too little anyway, I would start at 200mg day and go down over time

 

[pegasus2]

RU58841 is the AR blocking route, but you claim it doesn't work. It's actually not possible that duatasteride or finasteride don't work, because there have been multiple studies proving that they do work for 99% of men. My androgen receptor sensitivity is very low, but with enough DHT that doesn't matter because I still lost a lot of hair. It may be necessary for some to target both the AR and DHT.

 

[pegasus2]

if someone had decent maintenance on finasteride or dutasteride but had to stop due to sides, then CB will work great.
Not for regrowth of course, just solid maintenance at the hairline with zero sides.
For a tiny minority of guys having bad results on finasteride even starting at a Norwood 1 like "whatevr" then Cb or anti androgen may not be the solution. No drug ever worked for 100% of the population, but CB is the best we have today.
And 100mg is too little anyway, I would start at 200mg day and go down over time

Didn't you use RU before? Are you getting better results with CB?

 

[el_duterino]

Most fo the studies on finasteride looked at the vertex only. The study for the frontal loss showed that finasteride was less effective than at the vertex . If I rember correclty the numbers , it was like 75% maintained the front vs 90% the vertex on finasteride. The reason is thatnthe front is more sensitive to androgen including T and finasteride/dutasteride do not reduce T. dutasteride even raises T.
Anti androgen like CB will beat finasteride/dutasteride over time at the hairline.

 

[el_duterino]

Didn't you use RU before? Are you getting better results with CB?

My hair is better on CB because I can use more. I could not do that on RU because I have an active sex life and RU just killed the erections if I used just a bit over 10mg a day, which is probably not enough to maintain hair.

And its not just the erection, RU made my dick numb, penetrating a woman felt like dipping my dick into a warm bathtub or pool with water without any other sensations..very weird feeling I had EVERY time I used more RU.

 

[whatevr]

My hair is better on CB because I can use more. I could not do that on RU because I have an active sex life and RU just killed the erections if I used just a bit over 10mg a day, which is probably not enough to maintain hair.

And its not just the erection, RU made my dick numb, penetrating a woman felt like dipping my dick into a warm bathtub or pool with water without any other sensations..very weird feeling I had EVERY time I used more RU.

You've been on RU for something like 10 years, and maintained with it ? What dose did you use over the years that worked for you then? 10 mg I hope is a typo because that can't possibly do anything.

 

[pegasus2]

That doesn't make sense. Nothing is as effective at the hairline as it is at the vertex, precisely because temple hairs are more sensitive to all androgens, not just T. Finasteride after one year halts hair loss 99% of the time, after 5 years nearly 90% still maintain. The hairline is harder to maintain, but 5-ARIs are still king. The process on the hairline is exactly the same as on the vertex, it's just faster. On both the hairline and the vertex, DHT is more potent than T. So if T is raised and DHT is reduced that is a net reduction of androgen activity, and that benefits hair at the vertex and the hairline equally. It just may not be enough for the hairline because of higher sensitivity there. CB can barely even maintain the vertex at 12 months, there's no way it can maintain the hairline.

 

[el_duterino]

Based on the findings from the Phase III vertex and frontal hair loss studies, it can be concluded that finasteride is generally well tolerated and leads to improvements in hair growth in men with Androgenetic Alopecia, and slows the further progression of hair loss that occurs without treatment. Continued daily use of 1-mg oral finasteride is needed for sustained benefit. Based on hair counts, no further hair loss was observed in 83% of finasteride-treated men with vertex hair loss after 2 years and in 70% of finasteride-treatment men with frontal hair loss after 1 year. Based on standardized clinical photography, the chances of mild to moderate visible regrowth are 61% on the vertex (with an additional 5% achieving great visible regrowth) after 2 years and 37% on the frontal area after 1 year.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15529357

 

[el_duterino]

Finasteride after one year halts hair loss 99% of the time, after 5 years nearly 90% still maintain. CB can barely even maintain the vertex at 12 months, there's no way it can maintain the hairline.

From the studies its no and no to your wild claims- all the participants maintained hair on CB and not just the vertex.

finasteride is only going to maintain hairlines of 70% of people after one year and then likely less and less over time . Besides not blocking T, the other issue with systemic drugs such as finasteride, RU and dutasteride is that the body senses that the androgen level is low and upregulates the production of androgen receptors, making the drug less effective over time. This was confirmed by Dr Sawaya in the early finasteride studies. No such thing happens on a pure topical drug.

 

[el_duterino]

Testosterone at high concentrations interacts with the human androgen receptor similarly to dihydrotestosterone.

Abstract
Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are believed to exert their androgenic effects by interacting with a single intracellular receptor protein in androgen target tissues. During fetal life, however, testosterone mediates the virilization of the Wolffian ducts into the epididymis, vas deferens, and seminal vesicles, whereas the urogenital sinus and external genitalia require the in situ conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone to undergo male development. The reason why the signal provided by testosterone needs to be amplified in some androgen target tissues but not in others remains an enigma. To provide insight into the different actions of these androgens we studied their interaction with the human androgen receptor in fibroblasts cultured from the genital skin of a patient with 5 alpha-reductase deficiency. Dihydrotestosterone was formed in negligible amounts in these cells, and in some experiments the residual 5 alpha-reductase activity was further blocked with the 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor finasteride. Saturation analysis in fibroblast monolayers disclosed similar amounts of binding with testosterone and dihydrotestosterone, and the affinity of binding of dihydrotestosterone was, on the average, about 2-fold greater than that of testosterone. [3H]Testosterone also exhibited a 5-fold faster dissociation rate from the receptor than [3H]dihydrotestosterone. In thermolability experiments the [3H]testosterone-receptor complex displayed marked instability at 42 C with 2 nM [3H] testosterone, whereas with 20 nM [3H]testosterone, receptor stability was similar to that seen with [3H]dihydrotestosterone. In up-regulation experiments, 2 nM [3H]testosterone produced a 34% increase in specific androgen receptor binding after 24 h, whereas 20 nM [3H]testosterone produced an average increase of 64%. Our results suggest that the weaker androgenic potency of testosterone compared to that of dihydrotestosterone resides in its weaker interaction with the androgen receptor, most clearly demonstrable as an increase in the dissociation rate of testosterone from the receptor. When present in relatively high concentrations, however, testosterone overcomes this defect by mass action.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2298157

 

[pegasus2]

You're not understanding that the ARs on the vertex and the hairline are the same. There's just more of them at the hairline. If testosterone was worse for the hairline than DHT then it would also be worse for the vertex, so your whole argument is nonsensical. If finasteride doesn't work as well on the hairline as the vertex, which I agree with, then neither does CB, and I challenge you to prove otherwise.

What wild claims? I never said people didn't maintain on CB, and I didn't say anything about how many people maintain hairlines on finasteride. Less people maintain at the hairline on ANY drug. By the way, your 70% hairline figure for finasteride is after two years, not one. We have no idea if people maintained at the hairline on CB, but considering they barely maintained at the vertex, I doubt they did. You are just making stuff up when you say they did. All we know is that they barely maintained on the vertex at 12 months. As you can see by these charts, finasteride blew CB out of the water at the one year mark. Even by your own admission people maintained at the hairline on finasteride by a greater margin than CB at the vertex. I don't know where you get this fanciful idea that CB is maintining the hairline for more than 70% after one year. Prove that and I'll delete my account.

It's completely absurd to think finasteride upregulates androgen receptors making it less effect over time and that CB doesn't. CB's effectiveness drops like a rock after the 6 month mark whereas finasteride stays well above baseline for five years.

 

[pegasus2]

Sorry dude, but CB doesn't come close to this kind of efficacy after 1 year. It seems after 6 months there is massive AR upregulation with the use of CB. Good luck using more and more CB to maintain.

"expert panel review of standardized clinical photographs confirmed the benefit of finasteride treatment: 90% of finasteride-treated men either maintained (no further visible hair loss from baseline), or sustained visible improvement in, scalp coverage over 5 years"

 

[ScaredOfBalding]

It's only guessing after CBs efficacy at this moment. But yeah, no point claiming it will work better than finasteride when the data so far shows otherwise.

 

[dale2]

So, every now and then someone reposts here the same chart from the phase II trials and points to the differences between 6- and 12-month results. There may be something we need to better understand there, but how can we forget that this was a dose ranging study and the results show that all dosages are effective at all timepoints? (3, 6, 9, and 12 months, 7.5% more so than the others). The study also confirmed that there are no side effects at all. With the acne version currently being reviewed by the FDA to be approved by next August, why in the world would anyone be unhappy about this?

 

[el_duterino]

expert panel review of standardized clinical photographs confirmed the benefit of finasteride treatment: 90% of finasteride-treated men either maintained (no further visible hair loss from baseline), or sustained visible improvement in, scalp coverage over 5 years

This quote refers to the VERTEX ONLY study - not the hairline.
If you only have loss at the crown then yes finasteride will be sufficient

 

[pegasus2]

This quote refers to the VERTEX ONLY study - not the hairline.
If you only have loss at the crown then yes finasteride will be sufficient

Still waiting for proof that CB works any better at the hairline than finasteride.

 

[NotInmywatch]

We will never know officially because studies are meant to be as pragmatic as possible and researchers find easier to evaluate the vertex than the hairline.
There is also anecdotal evidence than finasteride recovers the hairline in some men after the 2nd year.
So we will never know unless any non commercial scientific researcher intends to explore the issue.

 

[parrotfish]

stopped after 8 months on tested cb with a 3.75% solution. i used cb with fina and added ru on a low dose as well this summer. my hair loss stopped at the beginning while on cb, but since august the loss increased again.
since stopping cb my hair loss is much more reduced.
my new regime is now 2mg fina/day and 130mg ru/day. seems to work better now. sides under control (touch wood)

 

[ScaredOfBalding]

this thread is devastating

So is the way u look and ur life so what does it matter.

 

[NotInmywatch]

@pegasus2
"It seems after 6 months there is massive AR upregulation with the use of CB. Good luck using more and more CB to maintain."

are you aware that if this is true, CB could ruin your finasteride treatment?? holy sh*t.
as far as I know this has never been demonstrated with any antiandrogen, although I remember it happening for example with betablockers for glaucoma and other cases of drug tolerance.

do you have any citation on this? at least we know that IT DOES NOT HAPPEN with finasteride.