The Cognitive Taxes Of Hair Loss And General Ugliness

Afro_Vacancy

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There's a long-running misguided debate on this forum (and in general society) as to the merits of looks versus personality. This debate assumes that these are separate variables. They are not, as better looks (particularly effortless looks) facilitates a better personality.

I have 3,477 posts on this forum, and a few hundred private messages as well. I have a cupboard that includes minoxidil, stemoxydine (needs to be ordered online), RU58851 (needs to be ordered online), will soon include alfatradiol (needs to be ordered online), nizoral shampoo, special conditioner -- I cannot use finasteride. I also need to worry about skin, teeth, eyes, body composition, my nose apparently, and how to partition limited money among them.

All of this leaves me jealous of the people who can focus on living life and on their hobbies and pursuits. The people with full heads of hair, those whose stomachs are full after one slice of pizza, who never get acne, they don't need to worry about their looks. They can read more books, watch more movies, do better at their jobs, go travelling with their extra money, or perhaps start investing in the stock market or in housing. They can then feel proud about themselves for having invested their time and money wisely, for being more responsible, and for being more awesome people. If they have anything in this world, it's because they deserve it.

I would really love to live in a world where I knew nothing about DHT, hair loss patterns, hormones, carbohydrates versus fats, hydrogen peroxide, zinc, aromatase inhibitors, flaxseed, soy, minoxidil, etc etc etc basically where a lot of handsome men are. They don't need to worry for the most part, though they floss every morning and once every few years they get tailored clothing and for that they feel like they're putting in the effort and thus they deserve what they have.

This has been a huge stress. I guess I look a little better, but I don't read as much as I used to, my writing skills have declined, I didn't watch as many movies last year, I don't concentrate as much at work, I don't have as many savings, and I'll face criticisms for all of those things and others that will fill in the vacuum left by the reduced discrimination from looking slightly better (but still not good enough).

A while back a friend suggested that I might be doing poorly on dates because I lack relationship experience. That is certainly plausible, as women don't like socially awkward behaviour, and do think about the collective judgment of other women. However ... what is the root cause of my not having dating experience? The same reason I have a hard time getting dates now. It's kind of like the f*****g snowball effect, except this snowball doesn't seem to ever reach the bottom of the mountain, rather it just seems to grow and grow and get bigger forever.
 

Dante92

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This has been a huge stress. I guess I look a little better, but I don't read as much as I used to, my writing skills have declined, I didn't watch as many movies last year, I don't concentrate as much at work, I don't have as many savings, and I'll face criticisms for all of those things and others that will fill in the vacuum left by the reduced discrimination from looking slightly better (but still not good enough).

I'm facing the same issues. I thought concentrating my efforts on my job and my hobbies would have helped, but the constant stress and anxiety over hair loss and its consequences (mockeries, humiliations, rejections,...) are taking a serious toll on my peace of mind, and I don't see a way out. I feel like I'm being torn apart.
 

Afro_Vacancy

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I'm facing the same issues. I thought concentrating my efforts on my job and my hobbies would have helped, but the constant stress and anxiety over hair loss and its consequences (mockeries, humiliations, rejections,...) are taking a serious toll on my peace of mind, and I don't see a way out. I feel like I'm being torn apart.

I cannot imagine the pain, suffering, and disappointment of getting side effects from finasteride but not getting the primary effect.

It's f*****g horrifying that after decades of being on the open market, there are no rigorous investigations f who gets growth from finasteride and who doesn't, who gets side effects and who doesn't.

It's just a stress-maximizing Russian roulette for everybody. Perhaps you'll get regrowth, perhaps maintenance, perhaps nothing. Perhaps you'll get gyno. Some people get PFS. Whatever, they make no effort to figure out who gets what even though it would be an easy thing to do. It's just easier for them this way.

Hair loss research is an intellectually bankrupt industry. I worry that this may be the norm throughout much or all of the pharmaceutical industry.
 

SmoothSailing

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Life has gotten almost exponentially better for attractive people but has got worse for unattractive people.

I used to always wonder why young males committed suicide so much when I was younger, people always bring it up but no one ever talks about the reasons. Which are fairly plain to me now.

Unfairness and inequality have been rising for a long time now. Some people just live such unimaginably better lives than others, based off nothing but how they look. It's quite sad.
 

michel sapin

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great post david , this is exactly what is happening to me . i am only 23 and ruining my life because of hairloss , acne and look ; i can't focus on college . And moreover despite being on propecia it doesnt work and i get the sides . Great!
 

JohnsonDDG

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Have you ever considered just giving up on this being good looking and dating malarkey because I'm not sure its ever going to happen for you?

Perhaps you could focus more of your efforts on your career, hobbies, and social life.

I know its a tough pill to swallow and I feel quite bad for suggesting it - but sometimes it feels like you are the 5'7 140lb guy who really, really wants to get into the college football team, and yet it just isn't physically possible because of certain limitations. Perhaps I am out of line, and I know you are popular on this forum so I may get hate, but I think you are wasting your time.
 

Afro_Vacancy

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Have you ever considered just giving up on this being good looking and dating malarkey because I'm not sure its ever going to happen for you?

Perhaps you could focus more of your efforts on your career, hobbies, and social life.

I know its a tough pill to swallow and I feel quite bad for suggesting it - but sometimes it feels like you are the 5'7 140lb guy who really, really wants to get into the college football team, and yet it just isn't physically possible because of certain limitations. Perhaps I am out of line, and I know you are popular on this forum so I may get hate, but I think you are wasting your time.

1) I didn't know I was popular.

2) I have standards but they're not high. I swipe right more than 50% of the time and do so with consideration, that's very unusual. I'm not trying to get onto the college football team, I'd be content with the beer league team.

3) It may be that there's no hope for me, I'm not going to be trying this hard forever. Right now I'm going to pull out of the dating market to focus on other issues. I'm thinking of trying again later in the year, if that fails, I give up.
 

rclark

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I cannot imagine the pain, suffering, and disappointment of getting side effects from finasteride but not getting the primary effect.

It's f*****g horrifying that after decades of being on the open market, there are no rigorous investigations f who gets growth from finasteride and who doesn't, who gets side effects and who doesn't.

It's just a stress-maximizing Russian roulette for everybody. Perhaps you'll get regrowth, perhaps maintenance, perhaps nothing. Perhaps you'll get gyno. Some people get PFS. Whatever, they make no effort to figure out who gets what even though it would be an easy thing to do. It's just easier for them this way.

Hair loss research is an intellectually bankrupt industry. I worry that this may be the norm throughout much or all of the pharmaceutical industry.

It is a dissappointment, for a lot of people.

The research part is true. Bimaprost has gone nowhere.

Platelett Rich Plasma therapy does have hope for people who are FIRST starting to lost their hair, even
the hairline. But even that is just like Minoxidil, it has temporary effects, and eventually DHT takes over.
 

JohnsonDDG

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1) I didn't know I was popular.

2) I have standards but they're not high. I swipe right more than 50% of the time and do so with consideration, that's very unusual. I'm not trying to get onto the college football team, I'd be content with the beer league team.

3) It may be that there's no hope for me, I'm not going to be trying this hard forever. Right now I'm going to pull out of the dating market to focus on other issues. I'm thinking of trying again later in the year, if that fails, I give up.
David, I don't know what to say. I do see non attractive men with okay looking women so I wont say that things will not work out for you. But the odds are stacked against you.

Things you win at: intelligence, career, stability

Things you lose at: looks and social skills (from what you tell us).

Unfortunately I think looks and social skills often trump academic intelligence and career.

Logically this pushes the decision to this:

Option 1.
-improve looks through, diet, gym, health care, and possible surgery
-improve body language and work on social skills (improv class etc).
-after improvements are made re-enter the dating market

Option 2.
-Play the numbers game and keep swiping and keep dating and eventually you will probably find someone who sticks.

Options 3.
-Just get on with life and forget about looks and dating for a while. Enjoy yourself and do whatever it is you want to do.


Given the information you've presented in previous threads I think these are three realistic options.
 

Bklyn_23

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I haven't invested nearly as much time into learning about the causes and mechanisms of hair loss as David and others have, but hair loss has taken a cognitive and financial toll on me in the following ways:

- Being a hat prisoner most days. I use a ton of concealers and painstakingly craft my hair illusion 2-3 days per week. I usually only do this when I have meetings at work or am going out on a date etc. Fixing my hair up takes ~3 hours (yes, I'm crazy); I can cut this down to 1.5-2 hours in a pinch. This reality has, among other things, kept me from doing basically anything spontaneously. Friends or girls call and ask to hang out last minute? Gotta make some excuse why I can't, because there isn't enough time to do my hair. This really puts more of a damper on one's social life than you can imagine. Everything needs to be planned at least several hours in advance if not days.

The absolute BEST days for me are the rare times when I wake up the morning after having done my hair and it still looks presentable (I'm a very rough sleeper, so it usually gets messed up). I can just touch it up for 10-20 minutes (i.e. a normal amount of time) and go out in public without that f*****g hat. It's incredibly liberating. And to be able to be seen in public sans hat without having to waste 3 hours of my life is such a relief.

- Financial cost: Due to the absurd amount of concealer I use (Toppik fibers and spray) as well as the fact that I have to use Nizoral 3x week, I probably spend $150-200/month on hair related products.

Strictly in terms of thinking about/being stressed about my hair loss, I'm probably not as bad as some others are because my rate of thinning/balding has been comparitively slow, and I'm also still good looking despite the hair loss (aided by the concealers, obviously). It does stress me out, though. I've been receding/diffuse thinning for 22+ years now (since age 16) and am currently a diffuse Norwood 2.5-3.0 (maybe 30-40% diffuse) - though I also have a gigantic vertex patch which is 70-80% bald. I can't imagine how hard it must be for folks with really aggressive loss, or who are not that physically attractive to begin with. Must be incredibly difficult. And I don't say that condescendingly - I really empathize.
 

hairblues

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Have you ever considered just giving up on this being good looking and dating malarkey because I'm not sure its ever going to happen for you?

Perhaps you could focus more of your efforts on your career, hobbies, and social life.

I know its a tough pill to swallow and I feel quite bad for suggesting it - but sometimes it feels like you are the 5'7 140lb guy who really, really wants to get into the college football team, and yet it just isn't physically possible because of certain limitations. Perhaps I am out of line, and I know you are popular on this forum so I may get hate, but I think you are wasting your time.

he only went back to dating this month and to be honest i think he's doing pretty well getting actual dates...

how well he's doing with follow ups i am not sure because his thread got derailed.

If the actual dates are going sour but he's getting the dates this tells me its NOT his looks this is something going on with a social interaction and that is not going to improve without practice--which is what he is doing.

he's only real stipulation is weight..and i doubt its about wanting skinny women as he likes big tits and *** so i think its more about not waning obese women. which is understandable.
 

uhoil

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This is exactly how I feel op

Before hair loss my money went to dslr lenses, concerts, videogames... now it goes to doctor visits, hair loss products, shampoos, meds.. it fu**ing sucks.

Time I used enjoying myself, now I spent on the web looking for treatments and ways to cope.

I miss my life, back when my mind was clear of all this s**t.
 

rclark

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David, I don't know what to say. I do see non attractive men with okay looking women so I wont say that things will not work out for you. But the odds are stacked against you.

Things you win at: intelligence, career, stability

Things you lose at: looks and social skills (from what you tell us).

Unfortunately I think looks and social skills often trump academic intelligence and career.

Logically this pushes the decision to this:

Option 1.
-improve looks through, diet, gym, health care, and possible surgery
-improve body language and work on social skills (improv class etc).
-after improvements are made re-enter the dating market

Option 2.
-Play the numbers game and keep swiping and keep dating and eventually you will probably find someone who sticks.

Options 3.
-Just get on with life and forget about looks and dating for a while. Enjoy yourself and do whatever it is you want to do.


Given the information you've presented in previous threads I think these are three realistic options.

So do I. There are ugly men who get much hotter women.

Always makes you wonder. Personally I like to stay in "my zone", so to speak.
 

hairblues

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I haven't invested nearly as much time into learning about the causes and mechanisms of hair loss as David and others have, but hair loss has taken a cognitive and financial toll on me in the following ways:

- Being a hat prisoner most days. I use a ton of concealers and painstakingly craft my hair illusion 2-3 days per week. I usually only do this when I have meetings at work or am going out on a date etc. Fixing my hair up takes ~3 hours (yes, I'm crazy); I can cut this down to 1.5-2 hours in a pinch. This reality has, among other things, kept me from doing basically anything spontaneously. Friends or girls call and ask to hang out last minute? Gotta make some excuse why I can't, because there isn't enough time to do my hair. This really puts more of a damper on one's social life than you can imagine. Everything needs to be planned at least several hours in advance if not days.

The absolute BEST days for me are the rare times when I wake up the morning after having done my hair and it still looks presentable (I'm a very rough sleeper, so it usually gets messed up). I can just touch it up for 10-20 minutes (i.e. a normal amount of time) and go out in public without that f*****g hat. It's incredibly liberating. And to be able to be seen in public sans hat without having to waste 3 hours of my life is such a relief.

- Financial cost: Due to the absurd amount of concealer I use (Toppik fibers and spray) as well as the fact that I have to use Nizoral 3x week, I probably spend $150-200/month on hair related products.

Strictly in terms of thinking about/being stressed about my hair loss, I'm probably not as bad as some others are because my rate of thinning/balding has been comparitively slow, and I'm also still good looking despite the hair loss (aided by the concealers, obviously). It does stress me out, though. I've been receding/diffuse thinning for 22+ years now (since age 16) and am currently a diffuse Norwood 2.5-3.0 (maybe 30-40% diffuse) - though I also have a gigantic vertex patch which is 70-80% bald. I can't imagine how hard it must be for folks with really aggressive loss, or who are not that physically attractive to begin with. Must be incredibly difficult. And I don't say that condescendingly - I really empathize.


Im just curious why no drugs even minoxidil?
 

rclark

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This has been a huge stress. I guess I look a little better, but I don't read as much as I used to, my writing skills have declined, I didn't watch as many movies last year, I don't concentrate as much at work, I don't have as many savings, and I'll face criticisms for all of those things and others that will fill in the vacuum left by the reduced discrimination from looking slightly better (but still not good enough).

It's not that, it's just you're smart in other areas of life.

Dating just doesn't come as easy, my friend.

There are too many different personalities, and probably because women have been
burned in past relationships.

It's not fair that they take it out on you, but that's just the way sometimes life is.

Have you thought about entering a Mensa dating club, or something where you could meet
women with common interests that you have?
 

rclark

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Im just curious why no drugs even minoxidil?

Not saying this is his case, because it might not be.

Even @Wolf Pack would probably agree with this.

Some men think that a hair transplant will mean medication is not necessary.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Even with a transplant, or not a transplant, medication
is still necessary to keep the remaining DHT sensitive hair in place.

Am I wrong?
 

rclark

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It is another fraud by David to get 200 pages discussion and then borrow our likes...

I'm sure your just joking.

It's not. Actually I like his health posts better. I read those more than these, to be honest.

But I like the relationship posts, just not as much.
 

Bklyn_23

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Im just curious why no drugs even minoxidil?

Mostly because I heard you can get increased shedding at first, which would mortify me; also because you can never stop it or you lose all gains (and gains are not guaranteed). Lastly, it would be difficult to fit into my work/life schedule, and on top of that I'm not the most disciplined person to begin with lol. ;)
 

hairblues

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It's not that, it's just you're smart in other areas of life.

Dating just doesn't come as easy, my friend.

There are too many different personalities, and probably because women have been
burned in past relationships.

It's not fair that they take it out on you, but that's just the way sometimes life is.

Have you thought about entering a Mensa dating club, or something where you could meet
women with common interests that you have?

I think David should check out sites geared towards educated people like this one

its better for over 30 crowd and geared towards higher education and people looking for serious relationships vs hook ups..tehy have a free option also.

it thought when this first came out it was about 'wealthy' singles but its not...

i might try this one when i go back to dating.

http://www.datingadvice.com/reviews/elitesingles
 
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