The Israeli–Palestinian conflict

[Ori83]

I wonder if Europe becomes 30 percent muslim, will we see a new India type split and carnage? Why is Israel not kicking out all its arab citizens after seeing what happens when a country becomes 30 percent muslim?

these are good questions, i wonder when/if it will happen, sure will be interesting to see it go down.

 

[HughJass]

Why is Israel not kicking out all its arab citizens after seeing what happens when a country becomes 30 percent muslim?

A bunch of Europeans rock up to the 'holy land' 60/70 years ago, ethnically cleanse nearly a million of the natives, raze their villages, steal their land and then corral the survivors into shitty little enclaves closed off with barbed wire fences and concrete walls. Israel then starves, murders and tortures them for the next 60 years and your suggesting that the Israeli Jews are the ones getting the rough end of the stick?


f*** that sh*t.

 

[Ori83]

Most of India was colonized by largely brutal muslim invaders and then the British. After independence from the British, the 30 percent muslims wanted their own country with more than 30 percent land area. They then killed off most of the Hindus and Sikhs in these new countries, and today Pakistan and Bangladesh are almost entirely muslim. In Pakistan muslims are now killing people they consider impure muslims. In India, muslims are increasing due to higher birth rates than Hindus. In Indian Kashmir, muslims have kicked out all the Hindu Pandits.

Whats the death count over there?

why doesnt the media covers it? i have no clue of whats going on there, can you link?

 

[tembo]

Death count since the first muslims came over to "party" hundreds of years ago is probably at least 100 million. They came from all over it seems, including Turkey, Iran etc..

Western media does not cover it because its not caucasians or Christians who were killed. Now the Europeans are finding out about this cancer called Islam.

Even the Taj Mahal, constructed by a muslim ruler, led to many many deaths, but the Indians celebrate the monument.

 

[The Gardener]

Western media does not cover it because its not caucasians or Christians who were killed. Now the Europeans are finding out about this cancer called Islam.

Bull sh*t.

Roman conquests, the Spanish Inquisition, European colonialism in Africa and Latin America (much of it done "in the name of Christianity"), colonial slaughter of Native Americans, genocide of Caribbean and Latin American natives, US's brutal conquest of the Phillipines, Both world wars, Vietnam, and Iraq...

Please, tell me again WHICH religion on earth has been responsible for the most mayhem, slaughter, and bloodshed?

Christianity is. No other religion even comes close.

European Christianity has conquered most all of the entire world. And the legacy of European Christian colonial institutions continues to this day in the form of tin pot dictatorships and corrupted banana republic democracies left in place all around the world that continue to torture, murder, and oppress indigenous folks to this very day... all in the name of protecting the Western colonial interests in exploiting their labor and resources. Africa, Latin America, and MOST especially in the Middle East, the native populations are subject to Western imposed governments that rule with heavy and bloody hands. The Shah of Iran (now deposed, of course), Mubarak, the House of Saud, the Al-Sabahs in Kuwait... these are all Western-imposed regimes that are pretty much de-facto dictatorships. The Iranians cast aside their western-imposed sellout, the Shah, and Oh LO and BEHOLD, now the Western media potrays them as the boogey man!

Maybe the Iranians hate America so much because for decades our self-imposed b*tch who ran the place (the Shah) was toturing and murdering Iranians by the bushel. If some foreign power controlled MY country and began a campaign of torture and slaughter, I'd have some hard feelings too.

Don't get me wrong, I in no way support any cretins who engage in terrorism. But I do think that we all need to realize different perspectives on this issue, in order to solve it... or else, our actions will only make things worse. AND I firmly believe that we're all brainwashed by our corporate controlled media to always make us look like helpless victims, when we've really been playing with fire for centuries. The powers that be ALWAYS need to create an "enemy" for us to fear, a boogie man, so they can use it to justify their own brutality, supposedly "in retaliation".

 

[tembo]

Well that quote you have from me says nothing about Christianity not having caused problems in the past so not sure at all what you are getting at?

In that quote, I was talking about the lack of coverage of Islam's brutality in the Indian subcontinent (100 million killed?) based on a question at the top of this page from Ori!! I think you need to read before getting so emotional Gardener and you probably have no idea about Islamic history in the Indian subcontinent.

And regarding your unrelated point, in today's world, if you ask an Indian Hindu or a Thai Buddhist or a Pakistani Sikh or a Sudanese black Christian or an Egyptian Coptic Christian or maybe even an Israeli Jew as to which is the most evil religion, they will all say Islam.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

Roman conquests, the Spanish Inquisition, European colonialism in Africa and Latin America (much of it done "in the name of Christianity"), colonial slaughter of Native Americans, genocide of Caribbean and Latin American natives, US's brutal conquest of the Phillipines, Both world wars, Vietnam, and Iraq...

1. Spanish Inquisition resulted in only 3000 deaths over 500 years. It mostly had to do with Jews who falsely converted to Catholicism but continued to subvert the Catholic church. It was not a "witch hunt" as people make it out to be.

Everything else you mentioned was totally secular and had nothing to do with religion.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one brought about by 1) an idiotic force and 2) an invading force. Two "wrongs", in my opinion.

The Jews that were firm believers in Zionism the first half of the 20th century were wrong in wanting to supplant the then-current population of the Palestine territories with Jews from Europe. However, many British and French Europeans saw it as a way to move a lot of Jews out of their countries. The British owned the Palestinian lands at the time and eventually the Zionists were able to get things moving (largely through terrorism...funny thing, look up Rahm Emmanuel [USA chief of staff...formerly]'s dad, he was involved in a lot of this long ago).

Once the UN got involved the Palestinians should have accepted that they lost--the Zionists won. They should have accepted the two state solutions proposed in 1946-47. They didn't. They lost big time and ended up with nothing.

That's the history of the subject.

What to do now, I don't care. Israel can't disappear at this point, but no one wants the pitiful bunch known as Palestinians.

 

[Bryan]

Please, tell me again WHICH religion on earth has been responsible for the most mayhem, slaughter, and bloodshed?

Christianity is. No other religion even comes close.

LOL!! Let's leave discussions of such historical questions for the history books, and focus now on modern times. In THAT context, which is now the most violent religion?

 

[Ori83]

Death count since the first muslims came over to "party" hundreds of years ago is probably at least 100 million. They came from all over it seems, including Turkey, Iran etc..

Western media does not cover it because its not caucasians or Christians who were killed. Now the Europeans are finding out about this cancer called Islam.

Even the Taj Mahal, constructed by a muslim ruler, led to many many deaths, but the Indians celebrate the monument.

Thanks Tembo, im sorry to heat all that, i have to get myself more educated on the subject, its awefull whats going on there got me very curios now, its pitiful that in out "western world" we ignore such monstrosities

 

[Ori83]

Please, tell me again WHICH religion on earth has been responsible for the most mayhem, slaughter, and bloodshed?

Christianity is. No other religion even comes close.

LOL!! Let's leave discussions of such historical questions for the history books, and focus now on modern times. In THAT context, which is now the most violent religion?

im not taking sides as im an atheist myself, but fyi, the koran (islam) is the only holy book that calls for the killings of non islamic (surah 47 /4 if you dont believe me...) by cutting their heads off :shock: , im not sure about the bible, but im pritty sure that you wont find that in Hindu/Buddhism......

 

[tembo]

No worries Ori. Its all in the past so not so important now except as a warning for Europe to be careful. I am fairly liberal except for when it comes to Islam, when I am like O'Reilly or Juan Williams

Some background on India, and an analogy of what would have happened to Europe by now if it weren't for modern technology and communications enabling people to be aware:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_con ... bcontinent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_atrocities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_Pandit

They can get you with war, marrying four women from your culture at a time, sharia law, higher birth rates, attracting your crooks to their "faith", etc.. but thankfully, their IQs are low and the modern world increasingly works based on intelligence.

We are also fortunate that Sunnis dislike Shiites. If those two groups were one, we would have a more formidable foe.

 

[bigentries]

Roman conquests, the Spanish Inquisition, European colonialism in Africa and Latin America (much of it done "in the name of Christianity"), colonial slaughter of Native Americans, genocide of Caribbean and Latin American natives, US's brutal conquest of the Phillipines, Both world wars, Vietnam, and Iraq...

1. Spanish Inquisition resulted in only 3000 deaths over 500 years. It mostly had to do with Jews who falsely converted to Catholicism but continued to subvert the Catholic church. It was not a "witch hunt" as people make it out to be.

Everything else you mentioned was totally secular and had nothing to do with religion.

And people forget that the Catholic Church was very responsible at tampering the genocide in the Americas after the conquests.

And this is coming from a huge atheist! Really, you can't imagine how many arguments I've been too, considering the culture I come from.

But blaming the World Wars on Christianity? What about Japan? Roman Conquests? Sound more like Euro/white blaming than any sort of Christian responsibility

 

[Bryan]

We are also fortunate that Sunnis dislike Shiites. If those two groups were one, we would have a more formidable foe.

God, I really really hate to say it, but I believe you're right about that!

As we've seen around the world even in these modern times, a lot of Muslims are more than willing to blow each other to smithereens. Just as one example, look at the way that members of one sect in Iraq had tortured members of the other sect by drilling holes into their skulls with an electric drill!!! How often do we find Baptists or Lutherans in this country (or any other civilized Western country) drilling holes into the skulls of Catholics or Methodists? Hmmmm? :shock:

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

Roman conquests, the Spanish Inquisition, European colonialism in Africa and Latin America (much of it done "in the name of Christianity"), colonial slaughter of Native Americans, genocide of Caribbean and Latin American natives, US's brutal conquest of the Phillipines, Both world wars, Vietnam, and Iraq...

1. Spanish Inquisition resulted in only 3000 deaths over 500 years. It mostly had to do with Jews who falsely converted to Catholicism but continued to subvert the Catholic church. It was not a "witch hunt" as people make it out to be.

Everything else you mentioned was totally secular and had nothing to do with religion.

And people forget that the Catholic Church was very responsible at tampering the genocide in the Americas after the conquests.

And this is coming from a huge atheist! Really, you can't imagine how many arguments I've been too, considering the culture I come from.

But blaming the World Wars on Christianity? What about Japan? Roman Conquests? Sound more like Euro/white blaming than any sort of Christian responsibility

It's not "whites" or "European" blaming either. The Arabs did it, the Chinese did it, the Japanese did it, the Romans did it, the Egyptians did it. It's a fundamental problem with the power of the State.

 

[tembo]

And if you are going to start blaming "whites" and "christians" for all these problems, you might as well also credit them with more than doubling our life expectancy too.

 

[Ori83]

And if you are going to start blaming "whites" and "christians" for all these problems, you might as well also credit them with more than doubling our life expectancy too.

you, my friend absolutely correct! i ran a search and it seems that there are 165 Jewish prize novel winners (Jewish are 0.2% of worlds population) and 6 Islamic winners (from a pool of 1.5bil = 22%+ of worlds population), dont get me wrong, im not saying that Jewish are smarter, but they do contributed to the world VERY much compared to their numbers, there are still much preconceptions towards Jewish, just like there are still towards blacks, Hispanics or any other minority, for some reason tho it seems that the hate towards jewish people is more harsh, maybe its because they dont put much of a fight in that matter, they just care about other things. i see much resemblance btw between Indias and Jews.

 

[tembo]

Yes the Nobel (and chess world champion, and much more) rate amongst Jewish people is quite unbelievable. I always find it hard to believe that there are only 20 million or so Jewish people in the whole world.

But I don't understand why Jewish people support Muslims so much, even though every Muslim country dislikes them.

There are so many Jewish people who supported the ground zero mosque, supported the firing of Juan Williams etc... Is it because of the Jewish peoples' history of being persecuted that they defend Muslims so much?

 

[HughJass]

But I don't understand why Jewish people support Muslims so much, even though every Muslim country dislikes them.

Maybe because some people, who happen to be Jewish, believe that everyone should have freedom of religion and equal rights?

 

[HughJass]

you, my friend absolutely correct! i ran a search and it seems that there are 165 Jewish prize novel winners (Jewish are 0.2% of worlds population) and 6 Islamic winners (from a pool of 1.5bil = 22%+ of worlds population), dont get me wrong, im not saying that Jewish are smarter, but they do contributed to the world VERY much compared to their numbers, there are still much preconceptions towards Jewish, just like there are still towards blacks, Hispanics or any other minority, for some reason tho it seems that the hate towards jewish people is more harsh, maybe its because they dont put much of a fight in that matter, they just care about other things. i see much resemblance btw between Indias and Jews.

Yes the Nobel (and chess world champion, and much more) rate amongst Jewish people is quite unbelievable. I always find it hard to believe that there are only 20 million or so Jewish people in the whole world.

Peres and Kissinger both got nobel prizes so I wouldn't consider it the best metric for determining greatness.


Besides, Jewish identity is mostly mythical construct as they don't seem to be genetically any different from the Palestinians which should put to rest any suggestion of a chosen people with above average capabilities. That idea of ethnic exceptionalism is one of the things that grates people about Jews. Not saying their isn't genuine anti-semitism driven by neo-nazism and Christian and Islamic intolerance, but ideas about a superior chosen people is bound to start pissing people off sooner or later.