The Israeli–Palestinian conflict

[ali777]

Empire: Would you temper your rabid anti-American, anti-Christian/Judaism attitude if I started posting stories/videos of attrocities committed by Muslims?

Or are the atrocities committed by Muslims always justified in your opinion?

And, in response to your previous post explaining to me that America is a tryannical system. You are nuts (i.e., completely out of your mind IMHO)!!

My strong stance doesn't come from a one sided position. I'm against 70% of the Islam position.

But heres the issue at hand.. US/Israel declared War on Islam (it's quite obvious) and made accusations of the Islamic World of attributes which THEY THEMSELVES HAVE.

And nothing in this world shits me more than a large scale hypocrit.

So when U.S (I'll call it The 2nd State of Israel, because lets face it, Israel says jump, U.S Administration ask How High?) wants to criticize the Islamic world, plenty of people like me are going to stand tall and tell the U.S/Israel to Shut The f*ck Up.

No one started as many wars as the U.S, Israel and Britain, lets be clear about that.

The IRA from my homeland put Britian back in it's place, so Muslim countries have adopted their guerella style defence systems.

You forgot europe . almost every major country is making legislation to limit immigration and national parties are growing in popularity . the common opinion is that it have to do with the islamic community but i cant believe that since they seem so peacfull !!
who does the muslims in sweden have to defend themselves from ?
dont they have the same rights like every other civilian there ?
why do they riot like maniacs ?
and this is just one example . similar behavior is common in other countries . what about the BBC footage of islamic preachers talking about taking over europe ? was the war declared on islam or is it the other way around ?

OK... I'm the double agent in this thread....

You can't simply blame it all on the Muslim world and get away with it.

There is a BBC link couple pages back, I read it on BBC the other day. Israeli soldiers admit to treating the Arabs as second class citizens, and not caring about the lives of the civilians. When such stories spread around the world, the Muslim world develops siege mentality and they feel like they have to defend their own. Let's face it, the UN or the US doesn't stop Israel from illegally occupying Palestine.

There are two sides to the story.... On one side, stories like the human crimes in Gaza creating the victim mentality, and on the other side, using that victim mentality as an excuse for violence.

If you go back a few messages, you'll see that I don't support the actions of the Muslim world neither. I think they are wrong... They need to get their sh*t together and stop blaming everything on the Jewish.

 

[The Gardener]

My arguments can only be raised amongst the educated, not amongst Fox News watchers.

Good god... that's the strawman of the century.

Just as a point of clarification.... when I call this the strawman of the century, it isn't because I don't think that Fox News is biased and a horrible source for balanced news. It is. Fox News is awful. I'm NOT saying that their journalism isn't honest, its just that they view events through a one dimensional perspective. Personally I find this to be rabble rousing cr*p with the intent of shamelessly pushing the Murdoch pro-oligarchical agenda, and don't give Fox News much credibility. If "Fox News" had their way, they'd want George Bush III to become president... or barring that, maybe Sarah Palin, god forbid.

The "strawman" point I was making was in trying to dismiss everyone who is NOT a conspiracist supporter as an uneducated Fox News watcher.

I am NOT a conspiracist, but I am DEFINITELY NOT a Fox News watcher, and I am DEFINITELY not uneducated... so I didn't appreciate you smearing me as an "uneducated Fox News watcher".

 

[Bryan]

I could be wrong though as I too watch Fox News.

I'm curious as to why you watch Fox News. Why don't you watch the other major news shows from NBC, ABC, or CBS (personally, I watch NBC News)?

 

[Smooth]

WHO WANTS TO SEE WHAT THE ANIMALS CALLED ISRAEL DO :d

Yeah right peace is just around the corner...

 

[HughJass]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html

 

[Old Baldy]

Empire: Would you temper your rabid anti-American, anti-Christian/Judaism attitude if I started posting stories/videos of attrocities committed by Muslims?

Or are the atrocities committed by Muslims always justified in your opinion?

And, in response to your previous post explaining to me that America is a tryannical system. You are nuts (i.e., completely out of your mind IMHO)!!

My strong stance doesn't come from a one sided position. I'm against 70% of the Islam position.

But heres the issue at hand.. US/Israel declared War on Islam (it's quite obvious) and made accusations of the Islamic World of attributes which THEY THEMSELVES HAVE.

And nothing in this world shits me more than a large scale hypocrit.

So when U.S (I'll call it The 2nd State of Israel, because lets face it, Israel says jump, U.S Administration ask How High?) wants to criticize the Islamic world, plenty of people like me are going to stand tall and tell the U.S/Israel to Shut The f*ck Up.

No one started as many wars as the U.S, Israel and Britain, lets be clear about that.

The IRA from my homeland put Britian back in it's place, so Muslim countries have adopted their guerella style defence systems.

Well, that's a completely different answer than calling all of us in the USA, in so many words, idiots who don't even know that we are living under complete tyranny.

I can't argue with your stance on this because that is your opinion and it has a basis for your conclusions. It isn't just angry spouting off at the mouth as you seem to have a bad habit of engaging in IMHO.

Sure, the USA isn't perfect and we do cow-tow to Israel too much IMHO. Same for how we seem to cow-tow too much, sometimes, to Saudi Arabia IMHO.

When 9/11 occurred, alot of us in the USA, myself included, felt Islamic extremists declared war on us.

 

[Old Baldy]

I could be wrong though as I too watch Fox News.

I'm curious as to why you watch Fox News. Why don't you watch the other major news shows from NBC, ABC, or CBS (personally, I watch NBC News)?

Yes, you've got to watch them all guys IMHO. You just can't go with only one news channel. You've got to know and try to understand all sides. And this is from me, a rabid right winger for pete's sake.

 

[Smooth]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html

OMG that shirt is awesome i got to get me one :woot:

 

[Empire]

[quote="Old Baldy":20hvlev2]Empire: Would you temper your rabid anti-American, anti-Christian/Judaism attitude if I started posting stories/videos of attrocities committed by Muslims?

Or are the atrocities committed by Muslims always justified in your opinion?

And, in response to your previous post explaining to me that America is a tryannical system. You are nuts (i.e., completely out of your mind IMHO)!!

My strong stance doesn't come from a one sided position. I'm against 70% of the Islam position.

But heres the issue at hand.. US/Israel declared War on Islam (it's quite obvious) and made accusations of the Islamic World of attributes which THEY THEMSELVES HAVE.

And nothing in this world shits me more than a large scale hypocrit.

So when U.S (I'll call it The 2nd State of Israel, because lets face it, Israel says jump, U.S Administration ask How High?) wants to criticize the Islamic world, plenty of people like me are going to stand tall and tell the U.S/Israel to Shut The f*ck Up.

No one started as many wars as the U.S, Israel and Britain, lets be clear about that.

The IRA from my homeland put Britian back in it's place, so Muslim countries have adopted their guerella style defence systems.

Well, that's a completely different answer than calling all of us in the USA, in so many words, idiots who don't even know that we are living under complete tyranny.

I can't argue with your stance on this because that is your opinion and it has a basis for your conclusions. It isn't just angry spouting off at the mouth as you seem to have a bad habit of engaging in IMHO.

Sure, the USA isn't perfect and we do cow-tow to Israel too much IMHO. Same for how we seem to cow-tow too much, sometimes, to Saudi Arabia IMHO.

When 9/11 occurred, alot of us in the USA, myself included, felt Islamic extremists declared war on us.[/quote:20hvlev2]

I don't blame ANY American for wanting to have killed every Muslim shortly following 9/11.

But you have had over 8 years to find the truth.. and come to the realization that Muslims had nothing to do with it. Islam was being used as a blanket to cover the real agenda here.

Soldiers in Iraq (I call them Murderers in Iraq) are fighting a war for Corporations.

You've had plenty of time to come to your senses and Barack Obama doesn't count as a change of path.

Think of the U.S system as this:

Owner: The Powers That Be - The Funders - The CFR etc (The Hidden Groups)
Manager: Barack Obama (President)
Employees: All you guys (The Public)

When sh*t goes wrong, the Employees go haywire at the "Manager" and every 4 years they have a chance to replace the "Manager".

Some Managers are tough, some Managers are weak.. some Managers are pricks, some are well spoken and polite.

It does not matter which Manager you serve, and how nice he is to you, at the end of the day.. your working for the Owner.

When you guys come to that realization, then you'll ignore the President and head straight for the Owner.

 

[HughJass]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html

OMG that shirt is awesome i got to get me one :woot:

wear it as much as possible.


it'lll spare the general public from having to talk to you to realize what a twat you are


a kind of wearable 'dickhead approaching' sign, if you will.

 

[Empire]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html

Thats just fkn barbaric. But you'll never see that on the news.

 

[Smooth]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html

OMG that shirt is awesome i got to get me one :woot:

wear it as much as possible.


it'lll spare the general public from having to talk to you to realize what a twat you are


a kind of wearable 'dickhead approaching' sign, if you will.

Outch Auussi that one hurts i really m offended by your sharp words over the internet lol, fu, that shirt will bring me more ponnany then any words will ever ever.

And its more like a wearable "I dont give a f*** what you -hippie liberals- think" sign if you may

 

[Empire]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html

OMG that shirt is awesome i got to get me one :woot:

SMOOTH - YOUR A FCUKWIT.

NO YOU REALLY ARE A FCUKWIT. YOU STUPID ISRAELI c***.

And I have EVERY RIGHT TO ABUSE a murderous coward dog piece of scum of the earth who thinks wearing TSHIRTS that condone killing PREGNANT PALESTINIAN WOMEN is hilarious.

f*****g scum of the earth, exactly why people are sick of Israel

 

[Empire]

Moderators - I SERIOUSLY hope this leads to him being booted off.

Swearing and abusing is one thing, but the guy just ridiculed the murder of Palestinian pregnant mothers and children.

Theres free speech, and then theres this. No one was condoning the killing of ANY Israeli.

What a fking DOG.

I would abuse any Muslim coward that killed ANY Israeli woman or child, heck that goes for ALL religions and races. Your an absolute f*****g criminal!

 

[Cassin]

Ok...looks like this site is back to not being able to handle discussing intense world topics.

No more threads about this subject for a bit.


EDIT....on second thought...

Smooth & Empire....you guys can't talk on these subjects anymore..you're both inflammatory with nearly every comment you make and then complaining to the mods when people react to it.

If you want to stay on these forums stay away from these topics our you will be banned. These pages have stayed pretty mature and interesting until you guys decide to add to it. Both of you have made some pretty nasty comments.

Any problem with this pm me and don't discuss it here.

 

[kadosh]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html

Thats just fkn barbaric. But you'll never see that on the news.

It's on the newspaper . an Israeli newspaper .

 

[Hammy070]

Empire - the T-Shirts that Israeli soldiers line up to purchase speak for themselves. I doubt there remains an unquestionable support for Israel or Zionism among anyone who truly comprehends the culture and mindset of a Zionist country and it's reflection in the form of apparel.

Use your imagination and read a lot. The pieces fit together in one's views when you examine the subject as a whole.

For example the 1300 deaths including 400 children. The debate was endless on the causes and factors involved, ranging from Hamas using human shields to Israelis being indiscriminate in their methods, or a combination thereof. Some extreme positions being Hamas deliberately putting civilians in the line of fire to gain support internationally when the death toll climbs, to other extremes saying Israeli soldiers deliberately fire at women and children and view Palestinian lives with little regard.

The debate then uses sources to support a standpoint. My own position is one that has no contradiction or flawed logic. I purposefully make sure my views are whole and harmonize with a variety of facts and sources.

For example, Amnesty International and the Red Cross and all other organizations with a clear unbiased approach have shown that Hamas do not use human shields. This leaves the question of why there were so many casualties among civilians. The obvious answers are dense populations, inaccurate weaponry and excessive force. At worst one could reasonably conclude excessive force, accusing the IDF of intentional targetting of civilians is a serious accusation that requires exceptional evidence. Yes the bombing of so many UN schools, ambulances and hospitals raises strong suspicion and certainly cause for investigation, but falls short to reasonably accuse the IDF for what are basically terrorist attacks (intentional killing of civilians).

Now we have Israeli army personell who have clearly and frankly stated that they had witnessed on many occassions the intentional killing of civilians and intentional destruction of civilian infrastructure. To supplement this we have an Israeli newspaper describing the T-Shirt business very popular among Israeli soldiers. The following are some excerpts from the article:

The office at the Adiv fabric-printing shop in south Tel Aviv handles a constant stream of customers, many of them soldiers in uniform, who come to order custom clothing featuring their unit's insignia, usually accompanied by a slogan and drawing of their choosing.

Dead babies, mothers weeping on their children's graves, a gun aimed at a child and bombed-out mosques - these are a few examples of the images Israel Defense Forces soldiers design these days to print on shirts they order to mark the end of training, or of field duty.

A T-shirt for infantry snipers bears the inscription "Better use Durex," next to a picture of a dead Palestinian baby, with his weeping mother and a teddy bear beside him.

A sharpshooter's T-shirt from the Givati Brigade's Shaked battalion shows a pregnant Palestinian woman with a bull's-eye superimposed on her belly, with the slogan, in English, "1 shot, 2 kills."

A "graduation" shirt for those who have completed another snipers course depicts a Palestinian baby, who grows into a combative boy and then an armed adult, with the inscription, "No matter how it begins, we'll put an end to it."

There are also plenty of shirts with blatant sexual messages. For example, the Lavi battalion produced a shirt featuring a drawing of a soldier next to a young woman with bruises, and the slogan, "Bet you got raped!" A few of the images underscore actions whose existence the army officially denies - such as "confirming the kill" (shooting a bullet into an enemy victim's head from close range, to ensure he is dead), or harming religious sites, or female or child non-combatants.

The Givati soldier: "Usually the shirts undergo a selection process by some officer, but in this case, they were approved at the level of platoon sergeant. We ordered shirts for 30 soldiers and they were really into it, and everyone wanted several items and paid NIS 200 on average."

A shirt printed up just this week for soldiers of the Lavi battalion, who spent three years in the West Bank, reads: "We came, we saw, we destroyed!" - alongside images of weapons, an angry soldier and a Palestinian village with a ruined mosque in the center.

If that culture is accepted in the Israeli army, I doubt you'd need Hamas to create any human shields. This is supported by organizations confirming that there was no evidence of this.

In case you've got poor working memory:

- 400 children killed
- Israelis witnessing intentional killing of civilians
- Israelis witnessing intentional destruction of homes and civilian infrastructure
- Israeli paper detailing a culture in the IDF that seems to be glorifying murder
- Amnesty International etc stating no evidence for Hamas human shields

- In addition to that, the increased settlement expansion, denial of refugees to return, blockades, election of far-right parties etc etc.

Those are facts. Ones' opinions should harmonize with them, not contradict them. When in doubt, consider the probability of a thing in light of the facts.

When faced with the facts, is it easier to imagine why suicide bombings or qassams exist?

Or is it reasonable to conclude that Palestinians are simply brainwashed terrorists wanting to kill?

Which is more probable and likely?

Smooth - please do wear the T-Shirts. It will hasten the world's understanding.

 

[Old Baldy]

Very disturbing T-Shirts IMHO. VERY disturbing.

Inexcusable for any reason IMHO.

 

[HughJass]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072830.html

 

[The Gardener]

The more that is being revealed about this Gaza "operation", the more sickened I'm getting.