Topical Dutasteride Case Assessment Thread

[Capone]

stop reading between the lines and listen for a change. the very point to using topical sh*t is to avoid internal side effects alltogether or as much as possible. I myself am very sensitive to internal dht inhibitation but mustang clearly is not as he could function perfectly with 50% reduction of DHT and also 15% reduction. so his post is pointless. he may aswell take a super small dose of finasteride orally 2-3 times a week or sh*t.

What makes you say you’re very sensitive to DHT inhibition? I’m in the same boat, even eating avocados makes me notice things.

 

[SausageDawg]

soooo, back to the topic

Anybody else tried topical dutasteride?

Don't feed the trolls guys, ignore, they will go away. I can't even see their messages, just press ignore and problem solved.

You're absolutely right.. he's a troll and quite a sh*t one at that. Comes onto a forum to call everyone liars lol what a life.

 

[sonictemples]

This is the graph for 0.1 mg dutasteride orally taken for only one dose. It clearly blocks around 40% of the systemic DHT and a week later DHT levels are fully replenished. Using this as an example, if we can figure out the topical dose that would only lead to 0.1 or less milligrams of systemic absorption and use it once per week, systemic effects will be similar to saw palmetto (30-40%) while it may be possible to still benefit from the potency of dutasteride at the scalp tissue.

 

[Dimitri001]

I applied the 0.5% liposomal topical dutasteride for the first time 14 days ago. Long post but I want to document for my own reference and everyone else’s. My initial impressions and baseline lab results are below but first some background:

Up until 7 weeks ago I had been taking 0.5mg of oral finasteride daily for about 6 months.

When I am on oral finasteride 0.5mg daily:

• DHT = 19 ng/dL (measured by Quest Diagnostics, reference range = 14-77 ng/dL)
• Basically zero libido, no interest in anything sexual, almost never feel the need to jerk it
• No morning wood; getting an erection is forced and even then pretty weak
• Weird to say, but on average my d*ck is 50% smaller while on finasteride
• I’m not sure if I had other neurological effects; I had never given the possibility much thought so if I was operating with impaired mental capacity I probably just powered through it / compensated / deluded myself.

I stopped taking finasteride in order to experiment with topical dutasteride as an alternative.

After 5 weeks not taking finasteride:

• DHT = 49 ng/dL (measured by LabCorp, reference range = 14-77 ng/dL)
  • Suggests that the 0.5mg daily finasteride was lowering my DHT by 61%
• Feeling GREAT - not sure if this is the finasteride leaving / 5-AR & DHT returning but generally felt good energy levels and positive about day-to-day life. One caveat; I’ve recently been eating much healthier, working out more regularly, and taking more supplements so a number of variables are at play
• After walking around for 6 months with a basically shrunken d*ck I suddenly feel like I have a hog in my pants. This alone gives me a weird sense of confidence
• Morning wood like clockwork
• Libido on high -- attracted to women I encounter in day to day life, and have a subconscious compulsion to pursue women where there had been none

14 Days ago I applied the Farmacia Parati 0.5% Topical Dutasteride for the first time

• As a couple people mentioned, the packaging is a little difficult. It has a cap with a small hole and a clicking screw-in mechanism at the bottom which when clicked forces the gel out of the hole in the top. Kind of like a liquid deodorant
• It makes it hard to dose -- I would click it once or twice, and using a plastic glove put it on my finger then try to strategically place it on my scalp between parts
• Only after I had done this a number of times i saw the fine print that reads “4 clicks = 1 ml”
• Not gonna lie I probably clicked that thing 12-15 times. So in my estimation I applied 3-4 ml, which I guess is equal to 15-20 mg of dutasteride. Mega dose off the bat, NOT ideal and big oversight on my part
• I’ve since realized that I can pop off the cap and using a 1ml syringe I can suck the gel up; I will use this method going forward to accurately measure the amount and apply with precision to intended areas
• I’m not positive about this, but I had some irritation on my scalp I think from applying topicals including tretinoin/azelaic acid etc (the area stung when applying anything with alcohol), and I’m wondering if by applying the dutasteride there it was much easier to go systemic?

Initial Impressions

• Ultimately it will be the follow up lab work that is of actual value, it’s hard to trust your own perceptions when you read so much despair on these forums
• Day 1 (the next day after I applied) I noticed some ball ache. Was nothing debilitating, and If I hadn’t read so many people talk about this phenomenon I probably would have shrugged it off. This was recurring and feels like it actually became more persistent in the 2nd week. Needless to say the boys hurt a bit and it was not imagined. Anyone know why this happens?
• Day 2 through 14 -- I had a bit less energy in general than in the weeks prior. Mainly felt like it was harder to get out bed in the morning and really had to push through some initial difficulty when doing cardio or weight lifting. I want to stop short of implying causation on this point; I have always had up and down weeks, but would be curious if lethargy/diminished energy is a side effect of 5-AR inhibitors that people commonly experience?
• Libido is eh. Not non-existent but definitely a step back from how I was feeling 5-weeks after finasteride discontinuation.
• Same with the shrinkage -- better than when I was on finasteride, but feel like the blood flow is not quite what it had been in the weeks prior
• Too early to say impact on hair loss, but if the dutasteride went systemic I’m assuming it’s working for hair

Two Week Conclusions

• This dutasteride sh*t is POTENT. I’m going to see if Parati can formulate a 0.1% concentration instead
• I took a stupid mega dose, it went systemic and hit me pretty hard
• I think it is ill-advised to hope this is some holy grail of hair loss, as we all know everything has a trade-off or is a compromise
• That said, I am hopeful that with some experimentation I can calibrate a treatment regimen with a frequency/amount/concentration which will 1) stop my crown hair loss and hopefully enable some regrowth, and 2) allow me to maintain a sufficient serum DHT level to feel good (feel better than on finasteride)
• Not sure what the numbers need to look like, but if I can suppress scalp DHT significantly while reducing serum DHT by only ~15% (rather than 60%) I hope this leads to the result I want. This is going to take a smaller dose.
• Once I resume and am on some consistent regimen for a few weeks I’ll test DHT again

Next Steps

• I’m going to wait 2 - 4 more weeks until I feel back to normal. Anyone know how long I should expect it to take for the effects of a dose like that to leave my system and 5-AR activity to resume?
• Going to try to secure 0.1% concentration during that time

The jury is still out on all the theories about being “liposomal” or “500 daltons” and whether they actually matter. In my opinion it does go systemic, it’s not a miracle treatment, but may yet be the best 5AR inhibitor compromise for people that experience sides. As laughable as that story is about guys that tried applying dutasteride for like 3 minutes then washing it out, I can kinda see where their mind was at. I have before photos and will share if there are ever meaningful after photos.

Vincent if you’re here and Mustang -- hit me up on discord, username is”‘dgadgdea”. Or PM me here. Would be good to compare notes

Final note -- I encourage other people to experiment similarly. I think I’ve figured out you can get reasonably priced DHT tests below (IF YOU ARE IN THE U.S.). I haven’t tried these a la carte tests yet but I’m hoping they work out. If you can get a $50 DHT test, then for $150 you could do tests 1) before applying, 2) 24 hours after applying, and 3) one week after applying to get a sense for how systemic it goes and how long it lasts. Small price to pay for something that may benefit you for years to come.

From Quest, including Free DHT:
https://www.findlabtest.com/lab-test/general-wellness/dihydrotestosterone-free-serum-quest-36168

From LabCorp (doesn’t include Free DHT but who knows if this matters):
https://www.findlabtest.com/lab-tes...sterone-dht-endocrine-sciences-labcorp-500142

From Quest (doesn’t include Free DHT but who knows if this matters):
https://www.findlabtest.com/lab-test/hormone-testing/dht-test-cost-quest-90567

I'll post a summary of my baseline lab results in a later post

Thanks for the detailed update!

I have to say, though, for guys who are gonna try liposomal duta, please do bloodwork pre and during. Subjective assessments of whether it has gone systemic and to what degree are highly unreliable, as we are all vulnerable to suggestion. It has been documented in studies that if you tell patients taking finasteride what the possible side effects are you're gonna get a higher incidence of sides than if you don't tell them.

Hell, even if you really are experiencing lower libido and not imagining it (not saying you are imagining it, just that it's a possibility), you still don't know whether that's the duta or the nocebo you're inducing through your expectations.

Subjective impressions are very unreliable and we can only really know from bloodwork.


On an unrelated note, for some reason, I got no notifications about new posts in this thread while I did get notifs for other threads, so if you guys want to stay up to date with specific threads, you may not be getting notifications since the forum's come back.

 

[losingbattle88]

-sigh- I dunno what you're even reading anymore.. it certainly cant be a reply to what I said. I'll say it one more time... vitamins will not stop male pattern baldness/AA. Theres no argument here. You're just being a whiny negative b**ch!!!

Yes it was a reply to you. just trying to explain to your little noggin that vitamins and good health wont stop or help male pattern baldness.

 

[losingbattle88]

You're absolutely right.. he's a troll and quite a sh*t one at that. Comes onto a forum to call everyone liars lol what a life. View attachment 145324

If you would care enough to read around about RU success stories you wont find many.

It's all about me me me.. the world revolves around me me me.. if it doesnt work for me then it doesnt work for anyone.. Mustangs a fraud blah blah blah you're a broken record. Explain more in detail why he should take a low dose finasteride 2-3 times a week and tell us why that's comparable to using topical dutasteride every 10 days... I wanna see your numbers bcus you seem super smart

I never said he "should" take", I said he "may aswell", and if you cant understand why then im not gonna try to explain it to you because there is no point to it, we are here to discuss topical dutasteride not finasteride orally. And stop replying to my messages and digging through my posts, you want me to digg through yours too and post them here for all to see? you are the real troll here. im a CRITIC not a troll.

 

[losingbattle88]

I hear mustang say he makes his own formula without pg or ethanol and cant be arsed to list it here because its too "complex" then I hear him say he gets his formula from a local pharmacy. care to explain yourself? because you sound very confusing.

 

[losingbattle88]

What makes you say you’re very sensitive to DHT inhibition? I’m in the same boat, even eating avocados makes me notice things.

I say im very sensitive to DHT inhibitation because even fenugreek "extract" eventually gave me dry eyes after like 2-3 months. and 500mg of fenugreek extract blocks only 10% of internal DHT. I was taking like x2 300mg day and sometimes x4 300mg day. I mean if I cant even handle some fenugreek that blocks maybe 10-20% of DHT after 2-3 months then how can I handle topical duta that blocks 15% of DHT and up? and if I do end up getting dry eyes from topical dutasteride im gonna suffer with eye problems for weeks probably because of its long half life. im gonna try some oral spironolactone tablets soon tho and hope I get some nice tits.

 

[losingbattle88]

anyways guys im done being negative. but if mustang can just tell me how I get my hands on liposomal 0.05% or even 0.01% and a formula without pg and ethanol to avoid too deep penetration that would be nice. also I assume this is a "gel" ? can you apply the gel by sucking it up in a pipete and apply it on scalp or is it too thick? im sure its very thick and not runny right? that sucks cause it will be very hard to spread it all over the scalp...I really hate gel or creams its almost impossible to apply it on scalp unless u dilute it with water or some other liquid to make it more runny, u want it as runny as minoxidill at least then its easy to apply.

 

[SausageDawg]

Yes it was a reply to you. just trying to explain to your little noggin that vitamins and good health wont stop or help male pattern baldness.

Yeah it's a shame i said that already init?:/ dry eyes my arse.. you're a crybaby mate bet they're wet 24/7. A self proclaimed CRITIC who criticises things bcus they dont work for him. Wonder who I'm a shill for hmm? The reason you wanna keep replying is bcus you're here for the arguments and its apparent you're out your depth.. dont give no numbers no nothing just drivel!

 

[losingbattle88]

Yeah it's a shame i said that already init?:/ dry eyes my arse.. you're a crybaby mate bet they're wet 24/7. A self proclaimed CRITIC who criticises things bcus they dont work for him. Wonder who I'm a shill for hmm? The reason you keep replying is bcus you're all about arguing and its plain to see your out your depth.. no numbers no nothing just drivel!

Can you please stop? I said I was done, u keep trolling me back now by saying against what I say. and if u dont believe in dry eyes from finasteride theres plenty of threads out there about it. finasteride was the worst of all dht inhibitors thats the only side effect I got from fina, even my norwegian friend got dry eyes from fina, its called "androgen deficency and dry eye syndrome" if u google it, and like I said I read many who says this has happaned to them. but we arent discussing my eye problems now, we are on the topic of topical dutasteride arent we? lets end this negativity and try to find a cure for our hair thinning.

 

[SausageDawg]

Can you please stop? I said I was done, u keep trolling me back now by saying against what I say. and if u dont believe in dry eyes from finasteride theres plenty of threads out there about it. finasteride was the worst of all dht inhibitors thats the only side effect I got from fina, even my norwegian friend got dry eyes from fina, its called "androgen deficency and dry eye syndrome" if u google it, and like I said I read many who says this has happaned to them. but we arent discussing my eye problems now, we are on the topic of topical dutasteride arent we? lets end this negativity and try to find a cure for our hair thinning.

The guy who literally brought all the negativity into this thread says what?... maybe just admit you was being childish no? There was literally no arguing whatsoever before you showed up! Strange.

 

[Dimitri001]

Let's just drop it guys, ok? You're spamming the thread. If you want to argue, take it somewhere else.

 

[SausageDawg]

Let's just drop it guys, ok? You're spamming the thread. If you want to argue, take it somewhere else.

Can we stop putting these intermediary comments? It is also spamming the thread.

 

[Mustang]

Can we stop putting these intermediary comments? It is also spamming the thread.

Dude, shut up.

 

[SausageDawg]

Dude, shut up.

Shut up yourself 'dude' :/ christ. some people, the reason people like that guy are still around is bcus you all back away from calling him out on his sh*t.. even when your getting slandered. Just block people like kids do. Do us a favour and dont be so obvious when commenting something purely for likes. 30+ years old thats some weirdo behaviour

 

[SausageDawg]

Re-read the thread, this study seemed to fly under the radar.. basically stating it goes systemic to some point when used alongside microneedling. Is this completely worthless to try and use to figure out systemic absorption? I think the serum tests were taken after 7 days. Surely some data that we need can be extrapolated. - surely we can assume this is the maximum amount it can go systemic?

 

[SausageDawg]

Re-read the thread, this study seemed to fly under the radar.. basically stating it goes systemic to some point when used alongside microneedling. Is this completely worthless to try and use to figure out systemic absorption? I think the serum tests were taken after 7 days. Surely some data that we need can be extrapolated.

 

[sonictemples]

Nothing was under radar, we already calculated and discussed these

 

[SausageDawg]

Nothing was under radar, we already calculated and discussed these

sh*t my bad.. in this thread? Maybe I missed a page or something.. the comments I did read about the study seemed skeptical of the dosing in the long term but we were recently asking if someone could get bloodwork done within a week of a dose to see what degree it inhibits serum DHT in the short term, it just seemed like this study was relevant to that very question. Is the idea to let the 5ar enzyme recover somewhat before applying the next treatment?