Topical Dutasteride Case Assessment Thread

[Dimitri001]

To all the users of this forum, just to be clear : topical dutasteride goes systemic to an extend, enough to bring sides effects, without a doubt.

Also, you should always remember that 0.05mg of finasteride inhib almost as much DHT as 1mg of finasteride. It's probably the same mechanism for dutasteride

So, even if a very very small quantity of the dutasteride you're applying to you scalp goes systemic, there is a high chance of important Serum DHT reduction.

Obviously, topical dutasteride is a lot safer than the oral version. But just to be clear: on the Discord there are way more people who have sides with topical dutasteride than the contrary. Way more.

The thing is, we cannot make our conclusion based on subjective reports of sides alone, because there is a huge nocebo factor here. As I said before, it has been recorded in studies that if you tell people about the potential finasteride sides you get a higher rate of sides than if you don't tell them.

In other words, you could give people a sugar pill and tell them it's finasteride and they'd get sides. This is known about drugs and placebo/nocebo in general, not just as it relates to 5ar inhibitors, of ocurse.

This means that we MUST have bloodwork with these reports when reaching our conclusion of what systemic effect this has.

Now, granted, the problem is we don't know at what DHT level sides start showing up and prolly it varies, but I think it's a reasonable speculation that if it only reduces by 20% we should be safe from sides.

Now, perhaps nocebo can affect even DHT levels, I don't know.

 

[Mustang]

We also have to measure Progesterone which is synthesized to Allopregnanolone via the 5AR.

My progesterone has declined drastically since stopping Topical dutasteride which could mean more of it is being synthesized into 5α-dihydroprogesterone. It went down 50% since stopping Topical dutasteride

 

[Dimitri001]

Now it's very nice that you had the time and money to do all this tests but unfornutely they are irrelevant. First because your only 3h application, this gels need like 24-48h, second you took all kinds of supplements that can greatly alter your results. I think you guys should make a post with a proper protocol with things to do before and after lab tests and exclude anything that might influence it. Also a keynote, in young men dht levels were shown to vary naturally with ~10% throughout the day.

This would be a really good idea.

What should the protocol be? I know nothing about these things, but something like:

- no supplements (or if you're gonna be on them, be consistent)
- do tests the same time of day
- no significant lifestyle changes that could influence results
- how long should you be off androgen blockers before testing?

Is that right? What else?

 

[Canuto]

This would be a really good idea.

What should the protocol be? I know nothing about these things, but something like:

- no supplements (or if you're gonna be on them, be consistent)
- do tests the same time of day
- no significant lifestyle changes that could influence results
- how long should you be off androgen blockers before testing?

Is that right? What else?

Keep your lifestyle choices the same, even if they are poor.
Get a baseline blood test within 1 or 2 hours after awakening in the morning.
Repeat blood test the day after the application and 7 days before application, on the day you're supposed to apply it again (if you're doing once weekly application).
Avoid biotin for at least 3 days before the baseline test and until your last test, since it's renowned to alter the results.
Get a scalp biopsy if you can afford it in the same pattern as the blood tests.
You will have the answers you're looking for.

 

[Abomination]

Keep your lifestyle choices the same, even if they are poor.
Get a baseline blood test within 1 or 2 hours after awakening in the morning.
Repeat blood test the day after the application and 7 days before application, on the day you're supposed to apply it again (if you're doing once weekly application).
Avoid biotin for at least 3 days before the baseline test and until your last test, since it's renowned to alter the results.
Get a scalp biopsy if you can afford it in the same pattern as the blood tests.
You will have the answers you're looking for.

Where and how do we get scalp biopsies to test DHT and T? anything else? Im in for the experiment. Im curious to see how relevant DHT and T serum is compared to T. If someone is on dutasteride and RU and tests very low DHT and T on the scalp and still balds I would have no idea what to say. Sure, there's other reasons to lose hair, but I don't buy that for males isn't mostly androgen related.

 

[Abomination]

Well, you got me there; sounds like you've thought this through. Good luck!

Im not saying that's what happening, im just trying to make sense of it. Having scalp measurement for androgens and contrast it with the serum results would help alot. Perhaps some people are lowering their serum androgens but somehow it isn't working for the scalp tissue.

 

[jackisback]

Anything new on your way, man?

Still waiting for results. If anything, I’d say my hair loss has gotten worse since starting. I know it’s early to tell. I also feel this is my last hope since I have no side effects so at best it will eventually halt this and at worst just cause me to be where I’d have been in a year or 2 anyways.
I believe Kevin Mann said he thinks Dutasteride generally could be worse than finasteride, Bc according to him DHT-2 doesn’t impact hair at all, so blocking that conversion from T could actually be worse since free T does impact hair. In other words, that DHT-2 > T > DHT-1 (in terms of being safe to not cause hair loss).
I hope this is wrong, and I’ll continue to hope for a turnaround or halt Bc like i said, I’ve had sides from everything else so I have no other option and if I do nothing I know I’ll keep losing ground until bald so I might as well keep going.

 

[sonictemples]

Still waiting for results. If anything, I’d say my hair loss has gotten worse since starting. I know it’s early to tell. I also feel this is my last hope since I have no side effects so at best it will eventually halt this and at worst just cause me to be where I’d have been in a year or 2 anyways.
I believe Kevin Mann said he thinks Dutasteride generally could be worse than finasteride, Bc according to him DHT-2 doesn’t impact hair at all, so blocking that conversion from T could actually be worse since free T does impact hair. In other words, that DHT-2 > T > DHT-1 (in terms of being safe to not cause hair loss).
I hope this is wrong, and I’ll continue to hope for a turnaround or halt Bc like i said, I’ve had sides from everything else so I have no other option and if I do nothing I know I’ll keep losing ground until bald so I might as well keep going.

Did you get any blood tests

 

[Canuto]

Where and how do we get scalp biopsies to test DHT and T? anything else? Im in for the experiment. Im curious to see how relevant DHT and T serum is compared to T. If someone is on dutasteride and RU and tests very low DHT and T on the scalp and still balds I would have no idea what to say. Sure, there's other reasons to lose hair, but I don't buy that for males isn't mostly androgen related.

It depends where you live.

 

[sonictemples]

Where and how do we get scalp biopsies to test DHT and T? anything else? Im in for the experiment. Im curious to see how relevant DHT and T serum is compared to T. If someone is on dutasteride and RU and tests very low DHT and T on the scalp and still balds I would have no idea what to say. Sure, there's other reasons to lose hair, but I don't buy that for males isn't mostly androgen related.

Also, please try 0.1% weekly as it seems to be the most viable dose

 

[jackisback]

Did you get any blood tests

Yeah I meant I’m still waiting for blood test results. Will be interesting to see. Actually will be relieved if I see a small DHT decrease just to know the product is legit.

 

[sonictemples]

Yeah I meant I’m still waiting for blood test results. Will be interesting to see. Actually will be relieved if I see a small DHT decrease just to know the product is legit.

May I ask when you got the blood tests and with which carrier and percentage?

 

[Stating facts]

Still waiting for results. If anything, I’d say my hair loss has gotten worse since starting. I know it’s early to tell. I also feel this is my last hope since I have no side effects so at best it will eventually halt this and at worst just cause me to be where I’d have been in a year or 2 anyways.
I believe Kevin Mann said he thinks Dutasteride generally could be worse than finasteride, Bc according to him DHT-2 doesn’t impact hair at all, so blocking that conversion from T could actually be worse since free T does impact hair. In other words, that DHT-2 > T > DHT-1 (in terms of being safe to not cause hair loss).
I hope this is wrong, and I’ll continue to hope for a turnaround or halt Bc like i said, I’ve had sides from everything else so I have no other option and if I do nothing I know I’ll keep losing ground until bald so I might as well keep going.

But finasteride blocks DHT-2 as well. Of course Duta is potent than fina but what you are saying does not make sense.

 

[Derelict]

Type 2 is most prevalent. Dutasteride is three times more potent than finasteride at blocking type 2 and one hundred times more potent at blocking type 1. The results speaks for themselves, dutasteride is consistently seen as superior in hair count etc compared to finasteride with pretty much the same rate of sexual sides if you believe the glaxo studies.

 

[jackisback]

Type 2 is most prevalent. Dutasteride is three times more potent than finasteride at blocking type 2 and one hundred times more potent at blocking type 1. The results speaks for themselves, dutasteride is consistently seen as superior in hair count etc compared to finasteride with pretty much the same rate of sexual sides if you believe the glaxo studies.

Not sure about the Glaxo studies but obviously it’s much more risky for sexual health and many who tolerated finasteride did not tolerate dutasteride so those studies are bunk. Just want to say that so no lurkers are confused (referring to the oral meds, not the topicals)

 

[Abomination]

Still waiting for results. If anything, I’d say my hair loss has gotten worse since starting. I know it’s early to tell. I also feel this is my last hope since I have no side effects so at best it will eventually halt this and at worst just cause me to be where I’d have been in a year or 2 anyways.
I believe Kevin Mann said he thinks Dutasteride generally could be worse than finasteride, Bc according to him DHT-2 doesn’t impact hair at all, so blocking that conversion from T could actually be worse since free T does impact hair. In other words, that DHT-2 > T > DHT-1 (in terms of being safe to not cause hair loss).
I hope this is wrong, and I’ll continue to hope for a turnaround or halt Bc like i said, I’ve had sides from everything else so I have no other option and if I do nothing I know I’ll keep losing ground until bald so I might as well keep going.

That is why we need scalp biopsies and test for both DHT and T. Some people may be going bald faster from the increased testosterone. Dereck from MPMD was going bald with 0 DHT when he used dutasteride orally daily for a year. What could be causing male pattern baldness if not the T at that point? he was on TRT too. So in some cases people may still go bald on the T alone even if you have lowered the DHT a lot.

The problem is how could you use RU or CB without causing upregulation of the receptors and thus going bald faster eventually.

 

[Abomination]

Also, please try 0.1% weekly as it seems to be the most viable dose

0.1% dutasteride weekly according to what?
Also unfortunately, I cannot find clinics that would do this procedure weekly, the most often they'll do is monthly...
Ideally we should find a source of injectable dutasteride and do it ourselves however I have no idea where to pick that up from that's legit.

 

[Abomination]

It depends where you live.

Where do you live? I have resources, I can travel anywhere, just tell me where do you get it.

 

[TurboFixer]

Where do you live? I have resources, I can travel anywhere, just tell me where do you get it.

same energy

 

[sonictemples]

0.1% dutasteride weekly according to what?
Also unfortunately, I cannot find clinics that would do this procedure weekly, the most often they'll do is monthly...
Ideally we should find a source of injectable dutasteride and do it ourselves however I have no idea where to pick that up from that's legit.

just order topical dutasteride and use it once a week