Topical Zinc Thymulin For The Treatments Of Androgenetic Alopecia

[ZenHead]

As a side question, do you think minoxidil can work better with minor wounding? Say 0.5 mm dermarolling?

For sure

 

[MaestroTR]

So... is there anyone that bought it?

 

[Pephair]

Anyone who is buying. Can you please start documenting your progress with before photos and some photos every few weeks?

 

[Thebaldcel]

My take is that usually skin has poor absorption for molecules over 500 Daltons - this treatment is around 850. I asked Vickers about this in an email and he said this: “The ZT is soluble in water and penetrates down the hair follicle to the bulge region where the stem cells reside by simple diffusion. The area is not keratinised within the hair follicle organ and thus does not prevent absorption.” If you look at the pic I’ve attached, the small space between the scalp skin and hair bulge region has a small gap. This is why the scalp is the most absorbent place on the body. Even if the absorption was a problem, you Could wound for better absorption which is probably what I’ll do.

Response:

"Juiceer • 40m
First of all, the thymulin zinc complex has a molecular weight of over 900 daltons. 924.23 to be exact. Transfollicular delivery still has a general size limit of around 600 daltons.

Secondly, he mentions water soluble and simple diffusion in the same sentence. ZT as a purely hydrophilic compound in an aqueous solution is not simple diffusing anywhere through the skin. While hair follicles create a gap in the stratum corneaum, that gap is very small. It also happens that hair follicles have sebaceous glands producing sebum right at the opening. Water and oil do not mix.

For this method to be the least bit viable for a hydrophilic compound, you would need a water in oil emulsion at the very least. But of course, an oily product is not the least bit convenient.

In addition, when it comes to topical delivery, follicular included, saturation is also vital. At 0.0005% concentration, it's far from saturated.

The Doctor is making these absorption claims despite it not being studied in that fishy study.

But yes, wounding will allow for some absorption, but the hell would I pay a premium for a product that I have to wound for it to be even remotely effective?

That brings me to my final point. With $1000, I can buy enough thymulin and other compounds to produce over 100 bottles of this stuff. And I'm quite sure I can create a superior product with the only caveat being Chinese Thymulin. Just puts the markup into perspective. Now if I only wanted to create a ZT solution in water, it would be even cheaper, but I won't because I don't believe it has very significant results."

Seems to be grossly overpriced to me

 

[ZenHead]

Response:

"Juiceer • 40m
First of all, the thymulin zinc complex has a molecular weight of over 900 daltons. 924.23 to be exact. Transfollicular delivery still has a general size limit of around 600 daltons.

Secondly, he mentions water soluble and simple diffusion in the same sentence. ZT as a purely hydrophilic compound in an aqueous solution is not simple diffusing anywhere through the skin. While hair follicles create a gap in the stratum corneaum, that gap is very small. It also happens that hair follicles have sebaceous glands producing sebum right at the opening. Water and oil do not mix.

For this method to be the least bit viable for a hydrophilic compound, you would need a water in oil emulsion at the very least. But of course, an oily product is not the least bit convenient.

In addition, when it comes to topical delivery, follicular included, saturation is also vital. At 0.0005% concentration, it's far from saturated.

The Doctor is making these absorption claims despite it not being studied in that fishy study.

But yes, wounding will allow for some absorption, but the hell would I pay a premium for a product that I have to wound for it to be even remotely effective?

That brings me to my final point. With $1000, I can buy enough thymulin and other compounds to produce over 100 bottles of this stuff. And I'm quite sure I can create a superior product with the only caveat being Chinese Thymulin. Just puts the markup into perspective. Now if I only wanted to create a ZT solution in water, it would be even cheaper, but I won't because I don't believe it has very significant results."

Seems to be grossly overpriced to me

There is an emulsifier in the product though. So the whole “water and oil do not mix” is irrelevant... sure you could probably produce this product cheaper, but there’s some other sh*t in there besides just ZT (like the emulsifier, preservatives etc). That guy on reddit isn’t wrong, it’s expensive. But personally $300 for a years supply of something I believe will work is fine with me. I’ve seen enough anecdotal evidence of regrowth from meatheads on bodybuilding forums using tb500 (very similar to ZT) to justify why I think it’ll work, but if it doesn’t I’ll let you all know.

 

[ZenHead]

On another note, if someone wanted to try tb500 (thymosin beta 4) that might be even more effective. Who knows

 

[zaman]

Someone help me, so tempted to buy

 

[Thebaldcel]

There is an emulsifier in the product though. So the whole “water and oil do not mix” is irrelevant... sure you could probably produce this product cheaper, but there’s some other sh*t in there besides just ZT (like the emulsifier, preservatives etc). That guy on reddit isn’t wrong, it’s expensive. But personally $300 for a years supply of something I believe will work is fine with me. I’ve seen enough anecdotal evidence of regrowth from meatheads on bodybuilding forums using tb500 (very similar to ZT) to justify why I think it’ll work, but if it doesn’t I’ll let you all know.

Response:

"Juiceer • 1h
Lol, no it's not irrelevant. Percutaneous drug delivery is not as simple as throwing in an emulsifer and then the hydrophilic drug can automatically absorb. There is an important distinction between water-in-oil and oil-in-water emulsions.

For hydrophilic drugs, you want a water in oil emulsion so the water can be encapsulated in the lipophilic phase. What we have here with this product is an extremely dilute aqueous product that has 2 weak surfactants (sodium oleate and acrylate) and some solvents.

In addition, you require at least a microemulsion for follicular delivery.

Here are things working against the ZT topical:

1. Hydrophilic compound not in an water-in-oil microemulsion
2. Molecular weight over 600 daltons (924.23 Da)
3. Extremely dilute concentration (this matters)

To claim that it still somehow absorbs topically despite these properties will require some solid evidence, otherwise it's pretty easy to see that it won't even pass the stratum corneaum.

The other ingredients in there are moot, I could easily find substitutes and they would be dirt cheap.

I am also intimately aware of tb500. The important distinction here is that it is INJECTED. This is completely different to topical delivery. Now, if you want to microinject thymulin into the scalp then I'd be less skeptical.

Speaking of hairlosstalk, a kid from there by the name of CureOrDeath or something once condescendingly insulted my scientific comprehension which was quite ironic after I read his "breaking bad" brotzu guide. If people on there want to buy the product then it's their money. I'm just giving you my honest input on why this is a money grab."

Seems to me like this won't work. Injecting tb500 into the scalp seems interesting. So is bpc157

 

[Sweuser]

Response:

"Juiceer • 1h
Lol, no it's not irrelevant. Percutaneous drug delivery is not as simple as throwing in an emulsifer and then the hydrophilic drug can automatically absorb. There is an important distinction between water-in-oil and oil-in-water emulsions.

For hydrophilic drugs, you want a water in oil emulsion so the water can be encapsulated in the lipophilic phase. What we have here with this product is an extremely dilute aqueous product that has 2 weak surfactants (sodium oleate and acrylate) and some solvents.

In addition, you require at least a microemulsion for follicular delivery.

Here are things working against the ZT topical:

1. Hydrophilic compound not in an water-in-oil microemulsion
2. Molecular weight over 600 daltons (924.23 Da)
3. Extremely dilute concentration (this matters)

To claim that it still somehow absorbs topically despite these properties will require some solid evidence, otherwise it's pretty easy to see that it won't even pass the stratum corneaum.

The other ingredients in there are moot, I could easily find substitutes and they would be dirt cheap.

I am also intimately aware of tb500. The important distinction here is that it is INJECTED. This is completely different to topical delivery. Now, if you want to microinject thymulin into the scalp then I'd be less skeptical.

Speaking of hairlosstalk, a kid from there by the name of CureOrDeath or something once condescendingly insulted my scientific comprehension which was quite ironic after I read his "breaking bad" brotzu guide. If people on there want to buy the product then it's their money. I'm just giving you my honest input on why this is a money grab."

Seems to me like this won't work. Injecting tb500 into the scalp seems interesting. So is bpc157

Stratum corneum does not invaginate into the hair folicle.

 

[azuri]

This is what Dr Vickers told me regarding the difference:

The standard deluxe form is the form tested and with the additional DHT herbal inhibitors. So its a comprehensive product for hair loss and hopefully cost effective for most people and most countries.The acrylates (Lubrizol TR2) are a very high quality emulsifying agent that will improve penetration and gently clean the scalp and hair as it has a mild soap cleaning effect to remove excess sebum.
The premium has the additional mix of the amino acids for hair regrowth.

Ingredients of the standard deluxe formula:

Potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, benzoic acid, methyl sulfonyl methane MSM, acrylates/C10-30 alkyl acrylate crosspolymer, sh-thymulin amino acids (alanine, asparagine, glycine, glutamine, lysine, pyroglutamic acid, serine, soy bean isoflavones, green tea polyphenols, coffee bean polyphenols), niacinamide, sodium oleate, zinc oxide.

Ingredients of the premium formula:

Potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, benzoic acid, methyl sulfonyl methane, acrylates/C10-30 alkyl acrylate crosspolymer, amino acids (methionine, lysine, glycine, arginine, alanine, glutamine, glutamic acid, leucine, phenylalanine, proline, valine, tyrosine, tryptophan), sh-thymulin amino acids (alanine, asparagine, glycine, glutamine, lysine, pyroglutamic acid, serine), soy bean isoflavones, green tea polyphenols, coffee bean polyphenols, niacinamide, sodium oleate, zinc oxide.

Cheers !

The question still remains on the application process ? I don’t have the luxury of applying and then having to re-style my hair several times a day.

 

[Thebaldcel]

Stratum corneum does not invaginate into the hair folicle.

That doesn't really address the other points

 

[Driftwood]

Ordered some last night. In the US. I'll let you all know when it arrives.

 

[razzmatazz91]

For sure

Thanks mate. I’m planning to do it. How often should I be trying the rolling? And should the minoxidil be applied right after?

 

[MaestroTR]

What if you got bloated face and dark circles from Minoxidil? It means this stuff will lose its efficiency ?

 

[johnny b]

Ordered some last night. In the US. I'll let you all know when it arrives.

I’m in New York saying it does not ship to this country at this time .

 

[cloudsanrain]

I’m in New York saying it does not ship to this country at this time .

I live in Illinois an I tried to place an order an got the shame message as you . (Does not ship to this country at this time) I thought they shipped here unless something changed .

 

[paracelsus]

I live in Illinois an I tried to place an order an got the shame message as you . (Does not ship to this country at this time) I thought they shipped here unless something changed .

I live in the East Coast and my order went through on Monday.

 

[ZenHead]

Response:

"Juiceer • 1h
Lol, no it's not irrelevant. Percutaneous drug delivery is not as simple as throwing in an emulsifer and then the hydrophilic drug can automatically absorb. There is an important distinction between water-in-oil and oil-in-water emulsions.

For hydrophilic drugs, you want a water in oil emulsion so the water can be encapsulated in the lipophilic phase. What we have here with this product is an extremely dilute aqueous product that has 2 weak surfactants (sodium oleate and acrylate) and some solvents.

In addition, you require at least a microemulsion for follicular delivery.

Here are things working against the ZT topical:

1. Hydrophilic compound not in an water-in-oil microemulsion
2. Molecular weight over 600 daltons (924.23 Da)
3. Extremely dilute concentration (this matters)

To claim that it still somehow absorbs topically despite these properties will require some solid evidence, otherwise it's pretty easy to see that it won't even pass the stratum corneaum.

The other ingredients in there are moot, I could easily find substitutes and they would be dirt cheap.

I am also intimately aware of tb500. The important distinction here is that it is INJECTED. This is completely different to topical delivery. Now, if you want to microinject thymulin into the scalp then I'd be less skeptical.

Speaking of hairlosstalk, a kid from there by the name of CureOrDeath or something once condescendingly insulted my scientific comprehension which was quite ironic after I read his "breaking bad" brotzu guide. If people on there want to buy the product then it's their money. I'm just giving you my honest input on why this is a money grab."

Seems to me like this won't work. Injecting tb500 into the scalp seems interesting. So is bpc157

Okay. Sorry to challenge your “scientific comprehension”. I really don’t feel like sparring over why this treatment will work or not. Thanks for your opinion.

 

[ZenHead]

Same

I live in the East Coast and my order went through on Monday.

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

Okay. Sorry to challenge your “scientific comprehension”. I really don’t feel like sparring over why this treatment will work or not. Thanks for your opinion.

Why do you get so angry at people challenging the validity of this treatment? Shouldn’t the free exchange of opinions be in your best interest as well?