Tsuji - News Successfully Developed An Expansion Method Of Hf Derived Stem Cells

[mdmnota]

You can do two or three procedures. Anyway, everyone make sure you're rich till 2022

 

[Omega2327]

It's the problem of losing those original hairs in the crown region that haven't diffused yet but eventually are doomed to. If you lose 56% of the hair in the crown/balding area and the other hairs are to continue the balding process until slick baldness you will be back to where you started with just the hair they filled in which would maybe be roughly 44%. Your back to diffuse.

Alright, let's say the average adult has 200-300 hair fibers per cm2. And let's say Tsuji is able to achieve the low end of this range just to be conservative, so 200 cm2. Now let's take a diffuse thinner. We know that hair loss isn't even noticeable until about half the hairs are gone. So in the case of a diffused thinner wanting to get this treatment, they would likely have a density of less than 100 cm2, let's say 50 cm2. If Tsuji can achieve a 200 cm2 density, then he can add an incremental 150 cm2 to this diffuse thinner. So even if they lose the rest of their mortal 50cm2 hairs, they would still be left with 150 cm2 of density, which would likely not be noticeable. I'd be pretty happy with this if I started with 50 cm2 (also using fairly conservative numbers)

And if you're really concerned with losing the hair you started with after an original procedure, then get a damn maintinence procedure in the future!!! Freeze some of those cells for future maintinence if you want and then just go in for another treatment. It probably wouldn't be YEARS until you'd need one. By then the price will likely have dropped anyway.

Most importantly, @hanginginthewire you are so f*****g negative that you look for any reason for this sh*t to not work. In Bimmler's thread you were hopeless for a treatment to even come out soon. Now that we have some great news, you're just thinking of any ridiculous bullshit reason for why it wouldn't work for you and why you will always be unhappy.

 

[hanginginthewire]

I don't really see it as "negative" if it pertains to realistic concerns based on things we know about how the treatments may work. Just because a treatment comes out doesn't mean it will apply to everyone. Invisalign was a huge innovation in orthodontia but people with more complex bites don't benefit from it. Its not negative for a NW7 to point out that traditional transplantation is going to involve complications for his situation. But yeah, hopefully theres options for diffusers with Tsuji.

If you're diffuse and still have an illusion of coverage when grown out, you can bide your time and wait for the price to go down hopefully. See, positive! Happy?

 

[Michel F. II]

So if your hair looks like this:

View attachment 58451

Who's that cutie?
I'd bang him.
Lol

 

[Tano1]

So still the question needs an answer, will this work on the scar tissue or do we need to wait for skin transplant?

This is my assumption here and is not fact until they conduct human trials and nobody else here can give you an answer either; only opinions.

My assumption is yes so long as their is some blood supply. Yield varies but is generally lower in scar tissue and of course it would be it makes sense.

With our current methods hair will grow into scar tissue and there is plenty of cases to show for it. All you have to do is research fue into scar and plenty of results will pop up.

This method will need to run human trials for you to get your answer. Can expanded cells be re-planted into the scalp and then have them produce hair in scar tissue? That is a question that still awaits an answer.

If there's no blood supply then there's still good news because there are other researchers messing with skin specifically who want to address burns, scars, and wounds specifically so there's several potential routes that may become available to us.

Nobody can answer this question for you until their trials have been proven successful in HUMANS.

 

[H]

Alright, let's say the average adult has 200-300 hair fibers per cm2. And let's say Tsuji is able to achieve the low end of this range just to be conservative, so 200 cm2. Now let's take a diffuse thinner. We know that hair loss isn't even noticeable until about half the hairs are gone. So in the case of a diffused thinner wanting to get this treatment, they would likely have a density of less than 100 cm2, let's say 50 cm2. If Tsuji can achieve a 200 cm2 density, then he can add an incremental 150 cm2 to this diffuse thinner. So even if they lose the rest of their mortal 50cm2 hairs, they would still be left with 150 cm2 of density, which would likely not be noticeable. I'd be pretty happy with this if I started with 50 cm2 (also using fairly conservative numbers)

And if you're really concerned with losing the hair you started with after an original procedure, then get a damn maintinence procedure in the future!!! Freeze some of those cells for future maintinence if you want and then just go in for another treatment. It probably wouldn't be YEARS until you'd need one. By then the price will likely have dropped anyway.

Most importantly, @hanginginthewire you are so f*****g negative that you look for any reason for this sh*t to not work. In Bimmler's thread you were hopeless for a treatment to even come out soon. Now that we have some great news, you're just thinking of any ridiculous bullshit reason for why it wouldn't work for you and why you will always be unhappy.

Yeesh I was just explaining what the concern is for diffuse thinners pal everyone's situation is different.

 

[Tano1]

U r completely right.
I misread the whole post of yours.
It's not you. It's me.
So sorry.
N O T

You just quoted my post and it's exactly what I said. They can't manipulate/control it so they wouldn't be able to transplant it into humans.

I'm not going to keep citing sources for you to comprehend anything anymore because you can't process anything.

This wasn't even your argument. Your argument at first was that they never made fully functional skin. Then when I showed credibility, you then changed your argument and said it isn't skin.

After I linked you to more credibility from other major researchers, now you're rambling on about that they didn't transplant skin when I never said that they did. All I said was what you quoted and that doesn't suggest they transplanted skin at all.

"I don't think they understood how it worked yet or how it could be manipulated/controlled so that it can be TRANSPLANTED into humans."

Read it. It should be clear that I said they basically can't transplant skin into humans because they don't know how to manipulate/control it.

I'm not gonna keep citing sources for you as I have been so research that sh*t on your own already.

Are you seriously going to keep making up stuff because you don't want to look stupid after I cited tons of sources to you where all contained quoted words from the researchers themselves?

You know all you had to do was ask me to cite sources of where I was getting this information and we could've kept this more professional. If you have other crap that you want to suggest I don't have a "f'ing clue about" then I don't care because I don't want to keep arguing and I'm pretty sure I made my point. I want to see what other people have to say about other research and actually learn something or proceed to research their claims.

You don't even validate anything you say with sources or any type of credibility, you just pull stuff out of your *** and then tell me to shut up because I have no "f'ing clue what I'm talking about." I asked you a question that you still haven't answered so I'll ask you one more time: If it's not skin that was regenerated as was stated from Tsuji's own mouth and Costarelis' words, THEN WHAT IS IT??? I'll take your word over some professionals with PhDs.

 

[Michel F. II]

You just quoted my post and it's exactly what I said. They can't manipulate/control it so they wouldn't be able to transplant it into humans.

I'm not going to keep citing sources for you to comprehend anything anymore because you can't process anything.

This wasn't even your argument. Your argument at first was that they never made fully functional skin. Then when I showed credibility, you then changed your argument and said it isn't skin.

After I linked you to more credibility from other major researchers, now you're rambling on about that they didn't transplant skin when I never said that they did. All I said was what you quoted and that doesn't suggest they transplanted skin at all.

"I don't think they understood how it worked yet or how it could be manipulated/controlled so that it can be TRANSPLANTED into humans."

Read it. It should be clear that I said they basically can't transplant skin into humans because they don't know how to manipulate/control it.

I'm not gonna keep citing sources for you as I have been so research that sh*t on your own already.

Are you seriously going to keep making up stuff because you don't want to look stupid after I cited tons of sources to you where all contained quoted words from the researchers themselves?

You know all you had to do was ask me to cite sources of where I was getting this information and we could've kept this more professional. If you have other crap that you want to suggest I don't have a "f'ing clue about" then I don't care because I don't want to keep arguing and I'm pretty sure I made my point. I want to see what other people have to say about other research and actually learn something or proceed to research their claims.

You don't even validate anything you say with sources or any type of credibility, you just pull stuff out of your *** and then tell me to shut up because I have no "f'ing clue what I'm talking about." I asked you a question that you still haven't answered so I'll ask you one more time: If it's not skin that was regenerated as was stated from Tsuji's own mouth and Costarelis' words, THEN WHAT IS IT??? I'll take your word over some professionals with PhDs.

Dude, have you read the paper I cited?
When it comes to scientific topics, I never, ever rely on articles, written by illiterate journalists.
I have read the paper and I'm not convinced it's skin. Besides, they are not referring to their product as skin.
And they didn't transplant skin onto the mice.
I don't have a PhD, but I've evaluated hundreds of papers throughtout my years in medical school. I'm not claiming expertise, 'cause I'm nothing close to that.
But, hell, no, what they created is not skin.
Please, read the paper and, then, come after me, hun.

 

[That Guy]

This thread is about skin now, apparently.

 

[Joxy]

Patents take years to expire and they will not be able to "buy" the formula from Tsuji anyways.

Tsuji doesn't own it; RIKEN does and there is no way they will sell it away. Kyocrea will own all of the proprietary machines.

People can keep dreaming — this is not going to rapidly travel across the world overnight.

Botox was first put to use for cosmetic treatment in 2002 after first being developed and tested in 1989. 15 years later it is available and approved in only 40% of the world.

Yes, I get your point, but we are now in 2017, not in 1989. Informations now travel with much, much, much faster rate than 15 years ago.

You forgot something that around 50% of world countries are poor with poor education and health system, so Botox for them is still science fiction. I am talking about Europe/USA/Canada. If Tsuji treatment is cure then many universities/stem cell companies will show great interest in Tsuji method, because honestly Europe/USA/Canada/Australia/New Zealand are places who can buy and consume this treatment outside East Asia. Latin America is big market, but most people there can’t afford expensive things in life.

With new science and technology it will not take years to figure it out some formula/patent.

 

[MrV88]

This thread is about skin now, apparently.

Thank God it's not foreskin like reboost

 

[Michel F. II]

Thank God it's not foreskin like reboost

Lol
That happens when circumcision is a thing.

 

[H]

Yes, I get your point, but we are now in 2017, not in 1989. Informations now travel with much, much, much faster rate than 15 years ago.

You forgot something that around 50% of world countries are poor with poor education and health system, so Botox for them is still science fiction. I am talking about Europe/USA/Canada. If Tsuji treatment is cure then many universities/stem cell companies will show great interest in Tsuji method, because honestly Europe/USA/Canada/Australia/New Zealand are places who can buy and consume this treatment outside East Asia. Latin America is big market, but most people there can’t afford expensive things in life.

With new science and technology it will not take years to figure it out some formula/patent.

The requirements they will have to meet to get in USA are in 21 CFR Part 312 in the new drug application (IND) if anyone wants to read.

 

[That Guy]

Yes, I get your point, but we are now in 2017, not in 1989. Informations now travel with much, much, much faster rate than 15 years ago.

Not really, there internet was a thing back then, too.

and regulations are still largely the same.

Simply "knowing" about it doesn't mean anything.

 

[Tano1]

Dude, have you read the paper I cited?
When it comes to scientific topics, I never, ever rely on articles, written by illiterate journalists.
I have read the paper and I'm not convinced it's skin. Besides, they are not referring to their product as skin.
And they didn't transplant skin onto the mice.
I don't have a PhD, but I've evaluated hundreds of papers throughtout my years in medical school. I'm not claiming expertise, 'cause I'm nothing close to that.
But, hell, no, what they created is not skin.
Please, read the paper and, then, come after me, hun.

All you have to do is YouTube Costarelis and listen to his interviews and he says the same thing that those articles quoted them saying. Some of this information has such easy access to it.

The video I linked was Tsuji himself talking so you just can't set that one aside and ignore that. That video was also an upload from hellouser from this forum.

Ok so what Tsuji was talking about in that video was not skin as he said it was and even referred to it as "whole skin" so what is it for the third time? Why are you still avoiding this question? Just answer me what it is so I can note it. Go ahead and say it's an integumentary system using IPS cells so I can immediately shut you down lol.

Now you're changing your argument once again and saying that they didn't transplant skin into mice. I'm glad you finally specified because you're still wrong. They have and they did it with ips cells as well. Scroll up and read the sources again.

Watch the whole video and hear Tsuji's own words from his own mouth for yourself.

How would they even establish these claims if they didn't test it at all? Of course they tested in mice, but it's not like that's a big accomplishment since they're not humans. That's why I referred to others who are actually entering human trials. I can understand if you had a valid argument but this is just you making claims based on what you want it to be called.

Tsuji called it skin, who cares? If it works who cares what he calls it! Just get over it and let people post things that actually matter on here. All I was doing was replying to a forum member who asked a question. If you can't tell me what Tsuji was referring to when he said "whole skin" if it's not skin then this argument has ended. I'm not interested in anything else you have to say because you are upset that they would call it skin.

An apple isn't an apple because it grew from a tree. It is a Trapple. That sums up your logic.

 

[Michel F. II]

All you have to do is YouTube Costarelis and listen to his interviews and he says the same thing that those articles quoted them saying. Some of this information has such easy access to it.

The video I linked was Tsuji himself talking so you just can't set that one aside and ignore that. That video was also an upload from hellouser from this forum.

Ok so what Tsuji was talking about in that video was not skin as he said it was and even referred to it as "whole skin" so what is it for the third time? Why are you still avoiding this question? Just answer me what it is so I can note it. Go ahead and say it's an integumentary system using IPS cells so I can immediately shut you down lol.

Now you're changing your argument once again and saying that they didn't transplant skin into mice. I'm glad you finally specified because you're still wrong. They have and they did it with ips cells as well. Scroll up and read the sources again.

Watch the whole video and hear Tsuji's own words from his own mouth for yourself.

How would they even establish these claims if they didn't test it at all? Of course they tested in mice, but it's not like that's a big accomplishment since they're not humans. That's why I referred to others who are actually entering human trials. I can understand if you had a valid argument but this is just you making claims based on what you want it to be called.

Tsuji called it skin, who cares? If it works who cares what he calls it! Just get over it and let people post things that actually matter on here. All I was doing was replying to a forum member who asked a question. If you can't tell me what Tsuji was referring to when he said "whole skin" if it's not skin then this argument has ended. I'm not interested in anything else you have to say because you are upset that they would call it skin.

An apple isn't an apple because it grew from a tree. It is a Trapple. That sums up your logic.

Ok.
Let me clarify.
In my opinion, skin is epidermis (keratinocytes), dermis (connective tissue+follicles, glands, etc), vessels and neural endings.
If you happened to have read the paper, you would know that Tsuji's team managed to generate an integumentary organ system, that's what they called it, via manipulating iPS cells.
Is what they made skin?
Hmm...
Shouldn't it resemble skin structurally and physiologically so that it can be named as such?
Does it?
If you read the paper, you would know.
Moreover, by no means did they transplant all that organ system onto murine skin.
Once again, if you read the cited paper, you would know what they did.
Please, read the paper, it's available on Pubmed, and, then, we can have a serious confrontation.
Tsuji and Cotsarelis may have used the term "skin" merely so that they not use all the terms that best describe what that actually is. It's called metonymy.
Trust me, if I hadn't read the paper, I would have apologized already.
I don't usually take things to heart.

 

[d3nt3dsh0v3l]

Still confizzled about this treatment. Will the hair primordia regenerate 3-4 hair FUs, assuming that the donor hair was healthy and produced such density? The hair direction is determined by the incision direction as well as the alignment of the arrector pili, as God-emperor Tsuji sensei-sama said in the interview. So will the direction tend toward the previous natural flow of hair or is it controllable? And another thing, male pattern baldness degrades the AP irreversibly. How is this addressed? Will the existing AP be regenerated? How would it attach to the bulges of the new follicles? Would new AP instead be generated?

SOMEONE PLS TELL ME

 

[H]

Still confizzled about this treatment. Will the hair primordia regenerate 3-4 hair FUs, assuming that the donor hair was healthy and produced such density? The hair direction is determined by the incision direction as well as the alignment of the arrector pili, as God-emperor Tsuji sensei-sama said in the interview. So will the direction tend toward the previous natural flow of hair or is it controllable? And another thing, male pattern baldness degrades the AP irreversibly. How is this addressed? Will the existing AP be regenerated? How would it attach to the bulges of the new follicles? Would new AP instead be generated?

SOMEONE PLS TELL ME

I'm going to go out on a limb he and say nobody probably knows but the people actually making this a reality. I think by the time commercialization closes in everything will have been addressed and this team seems pretty damn smart so they wont be sending people out of the room looking like that baby doll spider thing from Toy Story.

 

[gimmiehairorgimmiedeath]

Made an account because of this thread. Always been a pessimist with regards to future treatments, still think this stuff will take years longer then we want it to (I'm planning on it being 10-20 years before something other then finasteride and a hair transplant is the way back to hair) but still....

 

[Swoop]

bizarre how Michel F. II dislikes useful posts randomly, and answers to posts with his kind-of-agressive attitude, even after getting badass schooled by others.
looks like we have another type of nameless here. two of them in a single forum is going to be fun.

Yeah he is obv. trolling, don't worry he will be gone soon.