UCman i'm callin you out!

[s.a.f]

I think UCman would class home life vs the rest of his time as 2 seperate issues. Unfortunatley we have to live in both worlds.

 

[sylent]

I think its time we all stop criticizing UC man. He's depressed about baldness, and its not going to change. One thing I will say though, after seeing a picture of him, I can see why people give him "looks" or are apprehensive towards him. Despite being a good looking guy, he gives off a very cold look and demeanor. Looks like somewhat of a mean guy. Not saying that he is, but giving off such a look doesnt really help matters. People will just think hes mean, not thinking that he is just a self-loathing, harmless guy. Being bald obviously doesnt help, since it gives off the "tough guy" or "skinhead" vibe, especially with mean and cold expressions like that.

 

[ctulhu]

Sylent, I agree, that was exactly what I thought when I saw his pics. It's amazing how facial expression make a difference in how you think of people. A truly happy person looks about a hundred times more attractive than a sulker.

UCMan, in my opinion your problems is 90% your outlook, and 10% your real looks.

 

[uncomfortable man]

I think its time we all stop criticizing UC man. He's depressed about baldness, and its not going to change. One thing I will say though, after seeing a picture of him, I can see why people give him "looks" or are apprehensive towards him. Despite being a good looking guy, he gives off a very cold look and demeanor. Looks like somewhat of a mean guy. Not saying that he is, but giving off such a look doesnt really help matters. People will just think hes mean, not thinking that he is just a self-loathing, harmless guy. Being bald obviously doesnt help, since it gives off the "tough guy" or "skinhead" vibe, especially with mean and cold expressions like that.

If I give off that vibe it is only a reaction to or a reflection of the years of hostility I've had to endure. It has indeed given me a complex and has made me bitter and defensive. People are responding to my hairloss. I internalize all these negative responses and it kills my soul. Putting on a smile isn't going to make these people see past my baldness. Society still hates bald men. Live life as an NW5 in it and this fact will become apparent. People are always passing me the hari kari knife with this expecting look on their face.

 

[CaptainForehead]

. Live life as an NW5 in it and this fact will become apparent.

I have been NW5 since early 20s.
And this fact is not apparent to me.

 

[sylent]

I think its time we all stop criticizing UC man. He's depressed about baldness, and its not going to change. One thing I will say though, after seeing a picture of him, I can see why people give him "looks" or are apprehensive towards him. Despite being a good looking guy, he gives off a very cold look and demeanor. Looks like somewhat of a mean guy. Not saying that he is, but giving off such a look doesnt really help matters. People will just think hes mean, not thinking that he is just a self-loathing, harmless guy. Being bald obviously doesnt help, since it gives off the "tough guy" or "skinhead" vibe, especially with mean and cold expressions like that.

If I give off that vibe it is only a reaction to or a reflection of the years of hostility I've had to endure. It has indeed given me a complex and has made me bitter and defensive. People are responding to my hairloss. I internalize all these negative responses and it kills my soul. Putting on a smile isn't going to make these people see past my baldness. Society still hates bald men. Live life as an NW5 in it and this fact will become apparent. People are always passing me the hari kari knife with this expecting look on their face.

UCman, I can totally see how you feel that way, but its a catch 22 my friend. You keep thinking people are hostile towards you because of your baldness, so you act bitter. You act bitter and give out bad vibes, and people are hostile towards you because of it. I honestly think thats your problem man, and you would see it if you thought about it. Hair or not, people are hostile towards "mean" looking people. And obviously the hairloss doesnt help, because it makes you look like a "tough guy".

Honestly man, I'm not trying to change you. I know you have a reason or "excuse" for why people are bad to you, but I think if you take the time to think about it, you would realize there is truth in what I say. Honestly, if I saw you on the street with that look on your face, I would be hostile towards you. Not because of baldness, but just the general negative vibes it gives off.

Also, I can remember you saying something like: "People only like and respect me when they get to know me."

Why do you think that is? If they just disliked you because of baldness, they would never like you. Its the looks you give off man. These people arent thinking "Oh, this bald guy is actually alright", theyre thinking, "Wow, under his really cold and mean demeanor, he is actually a nice guy."

People arent out to get you man. Sure, there is the guy who is a douche about baldness here and there, but I'd say 90% of your "baldness" problems are "attitude" problems. Like I said, I'm not trying to change you, or your thoughts on baldness, but I hope you really think about what I said.

 

[uncomfortable man]

I understand it is a cycle but if you could just experience the anxiety of what it is like for me I think you may be more prone to sympathize. If you could just feel the kind of looks I get from random people on a constant basis, it is hard not to get a complex about it and never want to leave the house. I think I may have social anxiety but it is centered around my baldness but my point is that over a decade of this has psychologicaly and spiritually broken me down. People look at me like I'm a f*****g joke and it makes me want to curl up and die inside and there is nothing I can do about it.

 

[uncomfortable man]

. Live life as an NW5 in it and this fact will become apparent.

I have been NW5 since early 20s.
And this fact is not apparent to me.

Well then welcome to the if your not angry, your not paying attention sub forum of Impact.

 

[antman]

hey Exodus2011

keep in mind that the average person's self esteem bounces between healthy and unhealthy. You can get some people who hate complements (unhealthy) but at the same time they assert themselves positively when insulted (healthy). That same person can be genuinely happy whilst at their work office (healthy) but then really anxious in business meetings (unhealthy). People frequently have bouts of sadness and happiness in the same day. just because a person is happy or sad in one situation doesn't mean they are always happy or sad.

 

[Man in Space]

Ive got to say Im on UM mans side when it comes to this. Your story reminds me of what existential philosopher Jean Paul Satre termed the 'nausea' of existence when someone attaches his identity to an ideal perception of the self that he cant fulfil due to circumstances beyone his control. Like an olympic 100m sprinter who has a car crash that paralyses him. This person would have identified their whole life with a perception of the self, building their routine around fulfilling the identity of a sprinter, and then it is taken away. This person can either have a flexible sense of self, redevelop and use their transferrable attriubutes such as determination and motivation and become something else, such as a paralympic athlete, or they maintain a rigid sense of who they should have been and feel sick. The nausea is removed by having a more malleable sense of identity, but its not easy at all, its a deeply psychological issue and we are all wired completely differently. Thats why I believe telling UM he looks good is irrelevent to him, he knows who he could have been and is feeling nauseous because he cant become that identity.

Just my two cents

 

[sylent]

I don't think UCman is "wrong" in any way, and I do sympathise with him. I'm just saying, there are other factors in this, and he's putting a lot of blame into "baldness", when at the same time there are multiple outlying factors. I've never walked in the man's shoes, I have no idea how horrible he has been treated, I'm just saying that when you go around with a negative and pessimistic attitude, people will respond to you accordingly. I really think he needs someone real to talk to, that are not just lifeless forum posters. Someone he can relay his frustrations to, and that will understand and sympathise with him.

 

[Man in Space]

This is the thing, your identity is a shifting thing. We have problems because we consider our identity to be fixed, and hairloss is a particularly nasty one as we are brought into an environment that places such an unhealthy premium upon youthfulness. This is where I understand UM as I believe he is intelligent enough to know the extent to which his changing appearance alters peoples perceptions of his 'identity'. He knows the rules of the game and despite that, still wants to play, I dont see that as misanthropic, I see it as optimistic!

Anyone familiar with the analogy of the ship of theseus? The notion that you have a boat made of wooden planks, and over the years, each plank of wood is changed, the ship is still called the same name but is it the same boat? The truth is, no one knows who or what they are, and the world would be a lot better if everyone knew this, as we wouldnt end up fighting to protect the false identities which divide us and we wouldnt see each other as mere vessels that either are 'buff or rough' since we are much deeper than that.

You need to smoke your pot and have a think about that, and tell me if the same Exodus comes back!!

 

[Man in Space]

Haha Im familiar with that plan dude, the 'it will be alright in my 30's plan!'. I was once young and receding and looking for women as well! Well I can testify that you dont suddenly stop caring, or at least I didnt! Things do supercede it in importance though but it will likely always be there in your mind.

I hate to look like im saying this isnt something negative, I believe it undeniably is and You are naturally worried about it. One thing Im certain of though, you will get women, and the getting is good my friend. Im Starting to think hair loss is less your worry and its more the concern for the hungry stonker that youre packing!.

On the downside, in my experience you dont stop worrying about it no matter how many women youve been with! Probably not what you wanted to hear but try and find some comfort in the constant companion we have in worry!

 

[CaptainForehead]

Ive got to say Im on UM mans side when it comes to this. Your story reminds me of what existential philosopher Jean Paul Satre termed the 'nausea' of existence when someone attaches his identity to an ideal perception of the self that he cant fulfil due to circumstances beyone his control. Like an olympic 100m sprinter who has a car crash that paralyses him. This person would have identified their whole life with a perception of the self, building their routine around fulfilling the identity of a sprinter, and then it is taken away. This person can either have a flexible sense of self, redevelop and use their transferrable attriubutes such as determination and motivation and become something else, such as a paralympic athlete, or they maintain a rigid sense of who they should have been and feel sick. The nausea is removed by having a more malleable sense of identity, but its not easy at all, its a deeply psychological issue and we are all wired completely differently. Thats why I believe telling UM he looks good is irrelevent to him, he knows who he could have been and is feeling nauseous because he cant become that identity.

Just my two cents

But that doesnt mean society is hating on UCMan more than other tons of not so aesthetic NW1s.

I dont know whether it was better or not that I started balding at 12. I never had an "aesthetic" idea of self.

 

[Man in Space]

But that doesnt mean society is hating on UCMan more than other tons of not so aesthetic NW1s.
I dont know whether it was better or not that I started balding at 12. I never had an "aesthetic" idea of self.

Hey, two very interesting points. Firstly, undoubtedly society hates upon all people for varied reasons, not arguing with you there! I was not intending to make a reductionist argument, validating UM's attitude through one theory, that would be absurd, Im merely saying that I believe this analogy can offer at least some perspective on why he finds it so painful. Of course life is much more complex than abstract philosophical musings. Like I said, it was just my two cents and I do still believe that the inability to realise an idealised sense of yourself is palpable and in such a condition, i believe it is usual for someone to then attribute a large amount of ones troubles to this cause. Some suggestion of this was displayed by the fact that he was so happy when in another thread he had his scalp painted, as it was realisation of this identity, which served to liberate him momentarily.

As regard the notion of the conception of self, I would simply ask how can you know what your conception of self is and whether it is aesthetic or not? I personally wouldnt feel confident in arguing that my conception of self is not at least in some way aesthetic, in fact I feel strongly the opposite that it is an essential part of our conception of self, but that is just the opinion of a nobody!.

I also think we would have a hard time truly settling upon a definition of aesthetics that could not be somehow reinterpreted! And on that note, I just entered :jackit: territory!

 

[s.a.f]

haha yea true that man, its mainly an identity thing tho really

i honestly won't really care when i'm about mid 30s and such

everyone will have hair loss then lolz

There are people your own age with hairloss too, if you care about it now you'll still envy the NW1's in their 30's and 40's when you are that age. Especialy if you've missed out in the past.

 

[Man in Space]

:agree:

The worry wont suddenly go away buddy

 

[Man in Space]

Definately. Im pretty sceptical of what help philosophy is in the scheme of things, most of it is naval gazing, but I do think it can be good to realise that most of the things we assume as definate are not what they seem, it certainly helps me to take everything that little less seriously.
I believe the process that your talking about is similar to 'ego death', when peoples eyes are opened to the falseness of their presumptions about themselves and the world around them. A lot of drug users experience it, particularly acid, but on one of my early pot excursions I can recall having some windows opened so to speak.
To be honest I would quite like to be able to get back in the box if you know what I mean. It is much harder to chat up women when you cant say 'can I take you out for a drink sometime?' without then following it up by asking them 'but who is this 'I' that wants to buy 'you' a drink....and what is time'

Thats when you know you need serious work on your game!

 

[uncomfortable man]

Man in space, your idea of lost identity/ disassociation would have definately applied in those harsh transition years just after crossing that threshold into being truly bald. I was so devastated by it that I threw myself into an expensive cocaine habit to escape my reality. It was the darkest time of my life to date. But I've had years to adjust to my own appearance (although I still hate it) it is having to constantly process everyones elses initial shock/laughter reactions accumulatively that has taken it's toll on me and is the real krux of my problem. I've compared being bald to that novel The Scarlet Letter. In our society, a barren head comes with it's hosts of negative connotations that are culturally reinforced. It is almost as universally understood and despised as the red A symbol meant in that society in the book.

 

[Man in Space]

Fair enough. Im sorry that it hit you so hard. Like I said Im on your side when it comes to this, and I would be a severe hyprocrite (which i sure i probably am anyway) to say otherwise as I sit here having just ingested propecia and have minoxidil dampening my scalp!
Just for the record Im one of those NW2 going on NW3 guys who i know can get on your wick sometimes so im keen to avoid that. As I said in my introductory thread, i believe bald and balding to be two different things and wouldnt dream of supposing i have any clue of what its like to be in your position and thus, presume to give advice as to 'cheer up' etc.

I completely believe you when you say there is a negative stigma toward baldness because I do see it myself directed toward other men, im often insulted that people think its acceptable to act toward it the way they do, but as you know stigmas are not exclusive toward baldness, mankind is generally pretty ignorant, even the smartest people, we know so much less than we realise. Ironically I do not myself feel this stigma toward balding men or women, rather i am fearful of it. I genuinely mean it when i say so long as whats left of the hair is buzzed or shaven that it generally looks fine, but i do believe a lot of people dont see it that way, they see it as a weakness, a stick to beat you with. Therefore I think that the reason I take medications to cling to my hair is for the fear of experiencing what you say you are going through.

Like I said in an earlier post i think it affects some people more because i believe different people go through life with different levels of consciousness. I think the fact that you can read people and body language well is actually a detriment to you whereas if you were less conscious to the way people are then you would probably go round with a more open demeanour and then in turn receive less stigma if that makes sense. Not less stigma for being bald, but less any additional stigma that may be being induced through how your behaviour has been affected by your internalising your pain, if that makes sense. Anway this is all hypothesising, I dont suppose to know anything!