Upgrading My Regimen; A More Comprehensive Approach

[TK421]

Wow looks like oral min and topical e are pretty effective, I might have to look into it since finasteride and topical anti androgens didn't do anything for me. What kind of sides did you get from oral min and topical e?

 

[Obsessive]

Wow looks like oral min and topical e are pretty effective, I might have to look into it since finasteride and topical anti androgens didn't do anything for me. What kind of sides did you get from oral min and topical e?

I started getting this hardly noticeable blue vein from temple to underneath eye over the course of the last two months. Starting to show more. Also veins in arms, legs, and back of hands are more prominent. Does not look good. I believe this is estrogen.
Oral minoxidil started giving me heart palpitations and a swollen face, and shitty looking skin around eyes. Hopefully some of this stuff will reverse itself. If so, I'll probably go back on E and oral min, as needed

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

big mistake to just drop oral min like that

ur gonna have the WORST shed of your life

 

[Obsessive]

big mistake to just drop oral min like that

ur gonna have the WORST shed of your life

Hmmm..heart failure or loss of some hair. Not a tough decision. I've brought in topical min to hopefully make the transition less bumpy. Also, I use topical the 'correct' way for maximum absorption and coverage. I think most people don't realize that just dumping a dropper full in a straight line from crown to center hairline, on dry hair, IS NOT how to use a topical properly.

I'm getting an EKG in a few days. If all is good I'll bring oral min back in at a low dose and supplement with topical. That might be the most my body can handle.

The main thing I ask myself now is 'what the f*** is finasteride actually doing for me?'

 

[Derelict]

I think the health problems associated with oral minoxidil are overblown imo, studies show that between 2.5mg and 5mg go systematic when topical minoxidil is applied to the whole of the scalp, there are plenty of people on here using dermarolling to increases absorption, 50mg in 1ml of liquid minoxidil plus dermarolling, they must be getting quite a bit of minoxidil going systematic.

 

[Warmer82]

I tried oral 5mg, this was too strong a dose to take. I Reduced to 2.5mg still few sides. Now i take 1.25mg daily with 2g taurine ED and 25g collagen no sides at all.
Around 4 weeks i shed alot of minaturized hair no sgedding at all now
My hair has thickened slightly in the frontal third.

 

[Obsessive]

oral minoxidil side effects significantly outweigh its benefit for hair, esp in the long term!!
I still believe it was not essential for your hair regrowth; because in this photo of your hair, i do not see hair growth on your forehead. Oral minoxidil does not selectively works on the scalp. If it causes hair regrowth, It is usually first noticed between the eyebrows, between the hairline and the eyebrows, or in the side-burn area of the upper lateral cheek, later extending to the back, arms, legs, and scalp.
Why did you stop using dermastamp?! It seems a relatively safe and significantly potent adjuvant to rogaine, even for those on the high norwood!! Your hair now is not bad at all in my eyes (at least based on this photo that you sent)

sorry, I am still dermastamping, I just did my sixth session last night. I’m only doing at temples and hairline with 1 mm, wanted to make sure I am a good responder before doing more.

 

[Obsessive]

I think the health problems associated with oral minoxidil are overblown imo, studies show that between 2.5mg and 5mg go systematic when topical minoxidil is applied to the whole of the scalp, there are plenty of people on here using dermarolling to increases absorption, 50mg in 1ml of liquid minoxidil plus dermarolling, they must be getting quite a bit of minoxidil going systematic.

Agreed. I was fine for 6 weeks on oral then this. I want to use small dose daily and see if side effects go away.

 

[Obsessive]

I tried oral 5mg, this was too strong a dose to take. I Reduced to 2.5mg still few sides. Now i take 1.25mg daily with 2g taurine ED and 25g collagen no sides at all.
Around 4 weeks i shed alot of minaturized hair no sgedding at all now
My hair has thickened slightly in the frontal third.

I think that’s what I’ll do now. So taurine helps with water retention?

 

[Warmer82]

I think that’s what I’ll do now. So taurine helps with water retention?

Ive never had water retention especially with taurine. Keep dowm on the salt in diet aswell

 

[Obsessive]

Ive never had water retention especially with taurine. Keep dowm on the salt in diet aswell

Yea, any amount of salt brings serious edema (with 5 mg). Have you thought about supplementing the microdose (1.25 mg) with topical once a day?

 

[Warmer82]

Yea, any amount of salt brings serious edema (with 5 mg). Have you thought about supplementing the microdose (1.25 mg) with topical once a day?

I tried I few years ago with 5% regaine and kept getting headaches so ditched it. I already use trinov at night and lllt. Looking to get hold of SB 431542 to make topical to trial.

 

[Obsessive]

Have been on just finasteride and min for ~4-5 months and am very disappointed with results. Continued shedding and worsening of hair quality. My hair saving stack going forward. I believe this combination will stop loss and likely promote regrowth.

Each component of this stack has a unique effect on hair growth:

1. Finasteride (oral): lowers concentration of DHT in scalp
2. RU58841 (topical, Neogenic carrier): blocks androgen binding to follicle
3. Estrogel (applied to scalp): hair shaft elongation & many positive anecdotal reports
4: Topical minoxidil: thickening of hair via enhanced supply of blood and nutrients to follicle View attachment 104640

Update: I was able to work back in a low dose (1.5 mg) of oral min. No heart palpitations/anything blood pressure related (that i'm aware of). So current regimen, which is still providing regrowth, is A) 1 mg oral finasteride, B) 1.5 mg oral min, 3) once a day liquid min with a microdose of D) estradiol (~100 mcg), E) raloxifene 60 mg F) dexamethasone every 5 days, and G) dermapen 1 x week. Progress is being made so I hate to make any changes, but I'm having one major issue: veins on back of hands, arms, and even under one eye are becoming more and more prominent. Think of the hands of an 80 year old! Not sure if skin is thinning or if veins are getting bigger, but it looks bad.
This likely is either estrogen or minoxidil, as it coincides with their use. I'm not sure which it is.
I had used liquid min for years and never noticed this so could it be estro? minoxidil is a vasodilator so that could be it as well. @nWo Wolfpac thought the vein issue could be from estrogen, as he has noticed this too.

Has anyone using minoxidil or estro noticed this particular side effect?

 

[-Synergy-]

You may be shedding because of adding products later on

You should keep on oral minoxidil reduce to 1.25mg in morning and 1.25mg at night.

Try TGF-beta inhibitors.
Finisteride reduces TGF-beta by 30%. Monixidil isnt as effective with fibrosis. TGF-beta inhibitors reduce fibrosis. That's probably why minoxidil works better with finasteride, because finasteride inhibits TGF-beta.
Worth a try?
Taurine 1 g morning 1g at night
Curcumin with piperine extract
Ginkgo ectract

How do you know finasteride reduces TGF-B by 30% I’m just curious is there a study you recommend? I would like to know how much dutasteride decreases TGF-B then?

Update: I was able to work back in a low dose (1.5 mg) of oral min. No heart palpitations/anything blood pressure related (that i'm aware of). So current regimen, which is still providing regrowth, is A) 1 mg oral finasteride, B) 1.5 mg oral min, 3) once a day liquid min with a microdose of D) estradiol (~100 mcg), E) raloxifene 60 mg F) dexamethasone every 5 days, and G) dermapen 1 x week. Progress is being made so I hate to make any changes, but I'm having one major issue: veins on back of hands, arms, and even under one eye are becoming more and more prominent. Think of the hands of an 80 year old! Not sure if skin is thinning or if veins are getting bigger, but it looks bad.
This likely is either estrogen or minoxidil, as it coincides with their use. I'm not sure which it is.
I had used liquid min for years and never noticed this so could it be estro? minoxidil is a vasodilator so that could be it as well. @nWo Wolfpac thought the vein issue could be from estrogen, as he has noticed this too.

Has anyone using minoxidil or estro noticed this particular side effect?

Where have you been getting the oral minoxidil from? I guess the only way to know what direction sides are coming from is to subtract one while continuing the other or go to your doctor and see what’s up with your blood pressure seeing as how your veins are being effected.

 

[Capone]

View attachment 114822
This is today’s situation which I am very happy with. I just dropped E and oral min due to intolerable side effects. We’ll see if I can maintain with finasteride, topical minoxidil, and dexamethasone.

What is dexamethasone? Is it worth using?

 

[Warmer82]

How do you know finasteride reduces TGF-B by 30% I’m just curious is there a study you recommend? I would like to know how much dutasteride decreases TGF-B then?



Where have you been getting the oral minoxidil from? I guess the only way to know what direction sides are coming from is to subtract one while continuing the other or go to your doctor and see what’s up with your blood pressure seeing as how your veins are being effected.

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ll-androgenetic-alopecia-groups.121033/page-3

From study

 

[Obsessive]

How do you know finasteride reduces TGF-B by 30% I’m just curious is there a study you recommend? I would like to know how much dutasteride decreases TGF-B then?



Where have you been getting the oral minoxidil from? I guess the only way to know what direction sides are coming from is to subtract one while continuing the other or go to your doctor and see what’s up with your blood pressure seeing as how your veins are being effected.

Liquid minoxidil: I've stopped the estro because I think it's probably less helpful than the min...we'll see what happens in the next few days/weeks.

 

[Obsessive]

What is dexamethasone? Is it worth using?

It's a corticosteroid: reduces inflammation. There are many others too but dexa increases aromatase expression 9-fold, so in theory, it could be superior to the others. I haven't been using it long enough to know if it's helping.

 

[Obsessive]

About 2 months since my last update...

Looking at hair wet, combed back, I can now see deep into hairline all the way to middle scalp. This is a new low and, unfortunately, I can say that the following regimen has not only failed to regrow but has not seemed to stop the loss:

1 mg finasteride (9 months)
topical e on scalp (~300 mcg day)
topical min (1xday)
topical dexamethasone (3xweek) (last 2 months)
microneedling (1 mm, 1xweek)
~30 mg ralox / day (last 2 months)
Intermittent use of Bi-estro care (estradiol and estriol mix)

The only success I saw was during the period of using oral min. I reported the sides I dealt with in previous posts and just couldn't continue. I really thought I was going to conquer since I took action early as brought out the big gun (estradiol).

I've got dutas and spironolactone on the way. This will be my last attempt as I don't think I'm willing to go more extreme than that.

 

[arnoldd]

About 2 months since my last update...

Looking at hair wet, combed back, I can now see deep into hairline to all the say to middle scalp. This is a new low and, unfortunately, I can say that the following regimen has not only failed to regrow but has does not seemed to have stopped the loss:

1 mg finasteride (9 months)
topical e on scalp (~300 mcg day)
topical min (1xday)
topical dexamethasone (3xweek) (last 2 months)
microneedling (1 mm, 1xweek)
~30 mg ralox / day (last 2 months)
Intermittent use of Bi-estro care (estradiol and estriol mix)

The only success I saw was during the period of using oral min. I reported the sides I dealt with in previous posts and just couldn't continue. I really thought I was going to conquer since I took action early as brought out the big gun (estradiol).

I've got dutas and spironolactone on the way. This will be my last attempt as I don't think I'm willing to go more extreme than that.

I would take out raloxifene, it does increase testo so in theory dht too, and block the estrogen receptor.