Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[BaldAndBalder]

I think both the Indian and Chinese study provide enough info, according to the Indian study 82% of the test subjects hand cosmetic improvement at 12 weeks, with a sustained growth after 8 moths that is statistically significant.
But thats not all, the hair count is also impressive with an average of 40,2% more hair compared to 8,4% with minoxidil alone !

i don't know any other other product or method that can give that much improvement. Beside cutting your balls off.

40% won't get me back to Norwood 2 but thats good enough for me.

 

[Francky85]

You guys for whom it actually works, you got no idea how jealous I am of you. Wish it did for me as well.

I'm wondering if the method of action is actually the following. No neogenesis happening, but the dermarolling breaks up the fibrotic tissue for two effects:

• minoxidil can now reach a lot of follicles that it could not reach before cause the fibrosis minimized absorption of minoxidil into the fibrotic tissue
• The follicles can grow bigger again because the tissue around them is no longer fibrotic, but soft. Remember that hair follicles need to grow and that they also actually "wander" around, depending on the cycle phase they're in (higher or lower in the dermis depending on the cycle phase)

As response to my idea with a survey in this thread was rather low, I'll now conduct the survey via PM. Maybe this will turn up some data we can use to what really makes this work - which needle length, minoxidil or not, frequency, and so on.

Everyone who is currently testing this or has been in the past, please PM me so I can send you my updated survey. Once I gathered a lot of data, I'll post it in a separate thread.
May the data guide us!

I think its more complex than that.....the wounding process and the healing signalling, alters gene expression....hence why in the studies done, people regrew hair even without the aid of Minoxidil.

I believe along with a change in Gene expression and increased growth hormones such as IGF1, Angiogenesis plays a big part and Minoxidil is what speeds this part up meaning faster results.

I don't believe its a case of minoxidil just being absorbed better...not only that, but im watching my hair come back in the exact reverse pattern of how I lost it, if it was just minoxidil, surely the hair would grow back uniformly?

 

[BaldAndBalder]

I think its more complex than that.....the wounding process and the healing signalling, alters gene expression....hence why in the studies done, people regrew hair even without the aid of Minoxidil.

I believe along with a change in Gene expression and increased growth hormones such as IGF1, Angiogenesis plays a big part and Minoxidil is what speeds this part up meaning faster results.

I don't believe its a case of minoxidil just being absorbed better...not only that, but im watching my hair come back in the exact reverse pattern of how I lost it, if it was just minoxidil, surely the hair would grow back uniformly?

It would be interesting to see if the hair stays after you stop minoxidil.

 

[spooon]

This made me realize something right now.

Back when I started minoxidil around 23/24, I was one of these unlucky few that had really bad sides (especially dark circles around the eyes, but also some wrinkles). minoxidil was also working pretty well for me at the same time. Effects and side effects were pretty strong.

Nowadays though, 5 years later, the side effects I'm getting are much much weaker. At the same time, I also lost ground while on minoxidil and don't have new gains from the microneedling.

To me, though I might be wrong, this all points to me just absorbing minoxidil much less than before. Fewer beneficial effects, fewer side effects.


Also, maybe the advancing fibrosis is actually the reason why minoxidil loses effectiveness? Maybe dermarolling just makes sure that minoxidil keeps on being effective through the mechanisms described in my last post?

When minoxidil stopped working for me my sides went away just like you describe. When it was working I really had to keep an eye on my blood pressure (very low) and I also had dark circles. Now I don't get these sides. I still apply the minoxidil just in case! And of course now that I have started micro needling.

As an aside, I just sprayed my scalp with magnesium oil (magnesium chloride) 16 hours after micro needling at 1.5mm. Boy did it burn! If the fibrosis theory has legs then based on what I have read on MgCl it should also help.

 

[Francky85]

It would be interesting to see if the hair stays after you stop minoxidil.

Indeed....I will taper off and stop once im happy that ive regrown as much as I can and report back.

 

[Iah11]

Its 2 weeks since i started and my hair looks worse than ever. I hope its a shed before a lot of regrowth but its impossible to say

 

[cuprous]

Chiming in as I feel it's the right thing to do.. I've been using minoxidil for about five years and started rolling every 1-2 weeks with a 1.5mm roller about a year ago. I'm quite confident it has helped. I'm a Norwood 1.5 - 2 with mainly temple recession. The rolling has helped inch down the hairline.

I don't have proof but I believe the rest of my hair has thickened even where I'm not rolling.. it could be growth factors circulating in the scalp.

I've recently added sandalore to my minoxidil (per other thread) at a ~1.5% mixture. I'll report on how that goes in a few months time.

 

[BaldAndBalder]

https://www.reddit.com/r/tressless/comments/adoxtf/6_weeks_on_fin_5mg_ed_liquid_rogaine_12x_ed_15mm/

I'd rather stay bald then poison myself with finasteride

 

[fuDHTck]

Its 2 weeks since i started and my hair looks worse than ever. I hope its a shed before a lot of regrowth but its impossible to say

Are you using Minoxidil too? Or Just dermarolling?

I mean it's possible but usually most sheds aren't dramatic.

 

[layabout]

Why dont you do it??

Do you actually think I would stop using minoxidil right now?

 

[ryan r]

Its 2 weeks since i started and my hair looks worse than ever. I hope its a shed before a lot of regrowth but its impossible to say

Yeah I'm also less than a month in and my hair is starting to look really really crappy....

Question guys:

I'm doing the 1,5mm rolling once a week, and I wanna start rolling with 0,5mm daily for better minoxidil absorbtion. Wont the daily needling effect the healing and all that of the once weekly 1,5mm session? Sorry if this has been asked before.

 

[jared garnith]

Chiming in as I feel it's the right thing to do.. I've been using minoxidil for about five years and started rolling every 1-2 weeks with a 1.5mm roller about a year ago. I'm quite confident it has helped. I'm a Norwood 1.5 - 2 with mainly temple recession. The rolling has helped inch down the hairline.

I don't have proof but I believe the rest of my hair has thickened even where I'm not rolling.. it could be growth factors circulating in the scalp.

I've recently added sandalore to my minoxidil (per other thread) at a ~1.5% mixture. I'll report on how that goes in a few months time.

what's your source of sandalore if u don't mind me asking?

 

[paul1988]

So I just did my very first session:

Pen: Dr Pen Ultima A6
Length: 1'5mm from the beginnig
Current regimen: on minoxidil from july 16 and on finas from august 17, so any improvement from today will be attributed to microneedling.

I must say it does hurt a little bit. As I was drawing the lines I unintentionally pulled the pen away from my scalp (I mean putting less pressure, excuse my English), this made my pattern very irregular, so some spots must have been wounded 6 times while others maybe just 1 or 2.
I didnt get any blood spot but definitely redness (see image below)

https://imgur.com/a/3Uq18bg
I'll get a grip soon. Planning on doing it every 10-14 days.

My concern is now when can I act as if I didnt wound my scalp? I only rinsed my head with cold water and dried with paper towel.

When can I touch my head without worrying if my hands are dirty? Can I play football in 3 hours?

Thanks!

 

[benjt2]

I believe along with a change in Gene expression and increased growth hormones such as IGF1, Angiogenesis plays a big part and Minoxidil is what speeds this part up meaning faster results.

I don't believe its a case of minoxidil just being absorbed better...not only that, but im watching my hair come back in the exact reverse pattern of how I lost it, if it was just minoxidil, surely the hair would grow back uniformly?

I really, really hope you are right. However, then I'm still wondering why there are no results on my head whatsoever after almost 3 months of religiously following this. Maybe it's just my desperation talking

Regarding the regrowth pattern: I think it makes sense either way. If dermarolling only breaks up fibrosis (as I said, I hope it does more than that), then it will do so more successfully in areas where fibrosis has not advanced as much, i.e. in the areas that went bald more recently. Areas that have been barren for a long while are probably much more fibrotic. Thus, minoxidil can work more effectively in recently gone areas and thus that would explain the reverse pattern of regrowth.

Chiming in as I feel it's the right thing to do.. I've been using minoxidil for about five years and started rolling every 1-2 weeks with a 1.5mm roller about a year ago. I'm quite confident it has helped. I'm a Norwood 1.5 - 2 with mainly temple recession. The rolling has helped inch down the hairline.

I don't have proof but I believe the rest of my hair has thickened even where I'm not rolling.. it could be growth factors circulating in the scalp.

I've recently added sandalore to my minoxidil (per other thread) at a ~1.5% mixture. I'll report on how that goes in a few months time.

Any photos you could potentially provide?
Anyway, I am going to send you the survey I sent like 12 other dermarolling people as well. Would be great if you could fill it out and provide photos!



Edit:

So far I messaged the following members the survey:

• cuprous
• Francky85
• Bill_Russo
• ToLGuy
• Jk1
• sportsguy97
• ZenHead
• 74775446
• hairloss_user
• kiwi666
• Somebody
• 2young2retire
• Longway886
• MinvergaCGI
• keepit

Did I forget anyone who is currently trying this? (guess I did)

 

[overpourgoodfortune]

Its 2 weeks since i started and my hair looks worse than ever. I hope its a shed before a lot of regrowth but its impossible to say

Yeah I'm also less than a month in and my hair is starting to look really really crappy...

I'm ~4 weeks into starting up Min/finasteride (after being off Min for ~6 months, and having never taken finasteride before) and 3 weeks into needling with a pen. I've been shedding as well with things looking noticeably thinner - but keep in mind the OP experienced this for a month or two IIRC. There's many variables at play, everyone's different - but I have to take it as a good sign.

On the positive side of things I noticed now that I'm into the third week of needling - what hair remains ... seems to be standing up better and has more 'life' to it, despite having thinned out some.

 

[keepit]

I really, really hope you are right. However, then I'm still wondering why there are no results on my head whatsoever after almost 3 months of religiously following this. Maybe it's just my desperation talking

Regarding the regrowth pattern: I think it makes sense either way. If dermarolling only breaks up fibrosis (as I said, I hope it does more than that), then it will do so more successfully in areas where fibrosis has not advanced as much, i.e. in the areas that went bald more recently. Areas that have been barren for a long while are probably much more fibrotic. Thus, minoxidil can work more effectively in recently gone areas and thus that would explain the reverse pattern of regrowth.


Any photos you could potentially provide?
Anyway, I am going to send you the survey I sent like 12 other dermarolling people as well. Would be great if you could fill it out and provide photos!



Edit:

So far I messaged the following members the survey:

• cuprous
• Francky85
• Bill_Russo
• ToLGuy
• Jk1
• sportsguy97
• ZenHead
• 74775446
• hairloss_user
• kiwi666
• Somebody
• 2young2retire
• Longway886
• MinvergaCGI

Did I forget anyone who is currently trying this? (guess I did)

I'm trying this ,best thing iv done so far

 

[ryan r]

I'm ~4 weeks into starting up Min/finasteride (after being off Min for ~6 months, and having never taken finasteride before) and 3 weeks into needling with a pen. I've been shedding as well with things looking noticeably thinner - but keep in mind the OP experienced this for a month or two IIRC. There's many variables at play, everyone's different - but I have to take it as a good sign.

On the positive side of things I noticed now that I'm into the third week of needling - what hair remains ... seems to be standing up better and has more 'life' to it, despite having thinned out some.

Yeah it might just be the best thing ever, a good shed meaning its gonna regrow like a mother. Fingers crossed. I also started with a new minoxidil product so its a lot for the hair to take in I suppose.

 

[Bill_Russo]

So I just did my very first session:

Pen: Dr Pen Ultima A6
Length: 1'5mm from the beginnig
Current regimen: on minoxidil from july 16 and on finas from august 17, so any improvement from today will be attributed to microneedling.

I must say it does hurt a little bit. As I was drawing the lines I unintentionally pulled the pen away from my scalp (I mean putting less pressure, excuse my English), this made my pattern very irregular, so some spots must have been wounded 6 times while others maybe just 1 or 2.
I didnt get any blood spot but definitely redness (see image below)

https://imgur.com/a/3Uq18bg
I'll get a grip soon. Planning on doing it every 10-14 days.

My concern is now when can I act as if I didnt wound my scalp? I only rinsed my head with cold water and dried with paper towel.

When can I touch my head without worrying if my hands are dirty? Can I play football in 3 hours?

Thanks!

Hey man!

I'd say it depends on how dirty they are. If you, for some reason, end up with your hands covered in cowshit, I don't think touching your head is a good idea, even a day after. I don't exactly remember how long it takes for the holes to close (it was a few hours), but I'd avoid touching it for the first 6-7 hours when in doubt. As for playing football in 3 hours (I'm guessing you're meaning soccer for those in the US), I don't think it's a good idea if you're gonna expose yourself to the sun.

Overall, I'd do this on the weekend to avoid it getting in the way of your daily life, buddy. See if that fits your schedule.
If you have further questions, check this thread: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/microneedling-faqs-procedures-studies-and-such.119653/

I hope this helps! Good luck.

 

[paul1988]

Hey man!

I'd say it depends on how dirty they are. If you, for some reason, end up with your hands covered in cowshit, I don't think touching your head is a good idea, even a day after. I don't exactly remember how long it takes for the holes to close (it was a few hours), but I'd avoid touching it for the first 6-7 hours when in doubt. As for playing football in 3 hours (I'm guessing you're meaning soccer for those in the US), I don't think it's a good idea if you're gonna expose yourself to the sun.

Overall, I'd do this on the weekend to avoid it getting in the way of your daily life, buddy. See i that fits your schedule.
If you have further questions, check this thread: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/microneedling-faqs-procedures-studies-and-such.119653/

I hope this helps! Good luck.

Hey mate thanks for the reply!

Yeah, soccer as you call it, so I'm not gonna be rolling over the floor and will try not to head the ball.
I live in Spain so no sun anymore since 2 hours ago

I think I'll do another -proper- session on Sunday and then leave it for once every two weeks (not sure whether stick to 1.5 or work up to 2.0 though)

Have a nice day!

 

[fuDHTck]

Not doubting it but can someone who is shedding a lot post a before\after pic?

Just to make this a bit more "scientific"

 

[Derelict]

I will be stamping again on thursday but just to update i stopped the topical minoxidil, as of right now im just taking 0.5mg of dutasteride and 10mg oral minoxidil at night. Im hoping the mix of oral minoxidil and stamping will give the same results as the OP. My crown is still in pretty bad shape after about 4 months of oral minoxidil so i don't think it's working all that well on its own, hopefully the stamping will help. Im getting hair growth in other places with oral minoxidil like the back of my hands etc just not on my crown where i want it. I use the dr.pen ultima a6 at 2.5mm. Will post a pic on thursday after my session but here is a pic of my last one with my dr pen https://imgur.com/AQ97e4H

As you can see my crown is in pretty bad shape. If stamping,dutasteride and oral minoxidil doesn't yield any results within a year i will probably switch to a more radical regime. Here's hoping for the best.