Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[Rudi]

So I'm a longtime lurker who has rarely ever posted, I think the only reason I did was for the Brotzu discord, but I won't get into that s*** show.

I have followed this thread and the development of microneedling/dermarolling closely and I have no doubt that this has substantially assisted some people with regrowth and its awesome that these people have benefited. Due to these great results we've been seeing I decided to include this in my regimen and was hoping for similar affects, unfortunately this has not been the case. I don't want to rain on the parade, especially after another example of the benefits just being posted, but what I've experienced is the opposite of others and believe it is important to include this in the overall picture so people are aware it is possible to have negative outcomes. Here's some background:

• Starting noticing very very slight recession/thinning around age 30
• Age 30-31 tried the misc natural options, to no avail (obviously)
• Age 32-33 starting experimenting with various forms of minoxidil. Never had results or regrowth, continued to lose at a very slow rate
• Age 34 started to include finasteride. Started with Morr F for 6 months, then switched to oral. Got really weird sides with oral like vertigo and multiple inner ear infections so stopped and went back to Morr F. Again, no real results but was losing so slowly I figured I prob would be a Norwood 2-2.5 by the time I was 50+. No one ever knew I had any hairloss issues besides my wife and even she couldn't really tell unless I took hi-res pics and showed her what I was seeing. I could always style it and there was never any indication visually.
• Age 35 (Now) stumbled across this and other threads last November. Got the Dr Pen, 12-point needles and started going at it once a week at 1.5 depth, no topicals for 24 hrs after. Up into January things were looking good, could def tell a difference in thickness/scalp health and thought I finally found something that works, man was I in for a surprise. Fast forward to February and March, I have lost an absolute S*** TON of hair. My entire hairline has been decimated, and I now have diffuse thinning all over the front of my scalp, which is where I have been focusing the rolling on.

This is all irrelevant without pics so I have included one from last August/Sept basically right before I started rolling. Which everyone can see it looks like a normal head of hair styled. I'm sure most would be like wtf are you even doing on here but I cut my own hair weekly and could def tell I was heading for a Norwood 2 at some point. My hairline used to be so low it was actually a little weird looking so for me it was apparent I was losing ground. The second one is from last night. Yes the length is much shorter but I had to cut it this short cause the density got so poor it looked terrible all thin and whispy. So after 5 months straight of keeping the same routine, and only adding in the rolling, I have gone from basically a full head of hair to the fast track to a Norwood 3+ at this rate, and in a matter of about 2 months.

I guess the point of posting this is one, to at least raise the topic of this not only being a treatment that may not work for everyone, but it is a possibility it makes things worse. And two, I'd like to hear opinions on where to go from here. Not to try and jack the thread but I'm at a loss of what to do now. I feel I got greedy and should've just left things alone and now I'm paying for it. Should I stop rolling if it honestly just looks worse each week after I roll. Or should I continue for a year and hope this was a massive shed from the treatments finally taking having an impact? I've never even experienced a shed from years of minoxidil and a good 18 months worth of top/oral finasteride use so that's confusing as well. It's a hard decision from this standpoint due to the possibility I keep accelerating loss by rolling. I know there's one or two instances of it taking almost a year to see results but I don't remember it getting much worse at 5-6months, but correct me if I'm wrong. Any help or advise is greatly appreciated.

View attachment 116709 View attachment 116710

Your regimen may be too tough for your scalp. You could reduce the frequency to two weeks...to improve healing between your sessions.

 

[Derelict]

I'm buying this cool little thing.

I will mimic the Chinese study using this. It releases minoxidil via hypodermic needles right into the wound. I'll probably die of a heart attack. See you guys on the other side.

View attachment 116741

Max length is 1.5 mm. I'll use this on my bald spot and use normal derma stamp everywhere else.

That looks pretty interesting, don't know if it's a good idea to use liquid minoxidil with it though. Keep us updated.

 

[kiwipilu]

I'm buying this cool little thing.

I will mimic the Chinese study using this. It releases minoxidil via hypodermic needles right into the wound. I'll probably die of a heart attack. See you guys on the other side.

View attachment 116741

Max length is 1.5 mm. I'll use this on my bald spot and use normal derma stamp everywhere else.

interesting, thats a cool device. You can do duta mesotherapy aswell with this ?
1 mL of intradermal dutasteride 0.01% / only one-session treatment every 3 months believe it or not
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5596657/

 

[LowHairLine]

...I have lost an absolute S*** TON of hair. My entire hairline has been decimated, and I now have diffuse thinning all over the front of my scalp, which is where I have been focusing the rolling on...
...Any help or advise is greatly appreciated.

Thx for sharing:
reports are greatly appreciated as they give a better understanding of the whole needling thing!

TEMPLES NEEDLING
As outlined in my 2 month report, I am pursuing a similar target (a.k.a. temple regrowth) w/ a similar regimen (NEEDLING + topical MIN, FINA & others) and thought to share my experience (although briefer than yours) in case it might be of any help.

From the posted b/a photos it's hard to tell any difference bcs in after pic
LIGHT = much harsher,
HAIR = much shorter,
GRAFTS = buzzed to 0mm @ corner for some reason (or new hair growing?),
but I trust you know your hair better than we do w/ 2 pics and your temples are indeed thinner than baseline (especially since my temple terminals are too at this point).

VELUS
What gives me optimism nevertheless - although still cosmetically irrelevant - are tons of (very thin & transparent) velus hair all over the temples:

You could check if you see any as well - but you need strong skin-grazing lighting, as they are all but invisible under normal lights.

"NEGATIVE NORWOOD"
What's most surprising to me is that the velus is growing into the "negative Norwood" area, where I don't remember having hair at all in the first place - even in my teens.

@antydhtor has shown us it is indeed possible to regrow hair there - although in his case w/ a full-blown nuclear regimen - as kindly documented by @BetaBoy here:


Mine are billions of light years thinner than that, but they are (very) slowly getting longer, (slightly) thicker and pigmented as I am approaching the 3 month mark - which together w/ the fact that it took Anty 2 years for his (mind blowing) results, gives me a few atoms of cautious optimism...

CONCLUSION
Temples are notoriously tough to regrow - and even if it does happen, it takes a lo(ooo)ng time. On the flip side, in the needling studies nobody has lost ground long-term and based on the to date anecdoes, there is a low chance for us as well.

Since you have asked for advice and seem to be (rightfully) concerned with sides, here are a few safe & relatively cheap options (along with the suggested extended healing time) that I am using and could (slightly) strengthen your regimen, depending on the effort you are willing to invest:

- 1% DESLORATADINE as documented here;
- 2% NIZORAL CREAM - an anti-androgen which was shown in the Japanese study to regrow hair;
- 5% TOPICAL SPRONOLACTONE cream - which has weak evidence, but should in theory block T as well (which Fina doesn't) and is to date reported sides free;

Best of Luck fellow temple warrior!

 

[RU serious]

Left - Baseline, Right - 4 months
Derma needling 1x week with 1.5/2mm
Minoxidil foam once daily
Trinov daily

It's not a HUGE improvement but definitely something I've noticed just in every day life when I see less scalp in mirrors and such, I wasn't expecting a lot to begin with given that over the past 8 years I've tried basically everything (including dermarolling and minoxidil separately) and nothing worked without nuking my hormones. I'm not sure how much trinov is doing and put any results down to wounding and minoxidil but I'll probably stick with this regimen for awhile to see if it keeps improving.

 

[Bitless]

Yes. Anti inflammatories are a major key to solving hairloss.

What kind of keto shampoo do you use?

 

[Francky85]

@Dyingdome firstly....I think you are clearly a naturally paranoid person, the fact that you have been battling hair loss as you say for so long (5 years), yet have a complete full head of hair with very little loss as far as I can see, pretty much tells us this....you have nothing more than a slightly more mature hairline.

Secondly....that second picture, shows lots of new hairs starting to come through on your temples, which give it a month or so will start to fill that area in.

I've been doing this for 6 months nearly......I'm actually coming off the tail end of my first shed which hadn't happened at all for the first 4 months after my hair was getting thicker and thicker month by month...…your hair has to shed to come back thicker....this is a normal hair cycle for which itself last 4 months....I would imagine that your hair line that's been "decimated" will come back thicker over the coming months.

Annnnnddd chill.

 

[sportsguy97]

To the people not getting the results you want early on, maybe try switching things up. We've seen rolling working in different methods on here. We've have seen guys get results in this thread from different angles when rolling. Variables Include......

Intensity - Some are needling light, some a couple of passes, some with high intensity.

Frequency - Some are doing it every other day, some weekly or every two-three weeks.

Depth - Obviously will vary.

Supplemental treatments - Topicals, With/without minoxidil, finasteride. Ect.


Now for my anecdote. I'm still seeing continued thickening every month 3.5 months in. I originally started at 1.75 weekly and felt i was seeing results. Now however i have switched to 1.75 every two weeks. But i'm wounding alot harder. I think i go 12-15 passes on every area of my head with my DR Pen. I take breaks and do this over 20-30 minute period. I don't get crazy amounts of blood at all, but there are blood spots all over. I use a new needle everytime. It has definitely led to an uptick in results i believe.

Point being - When i originally started to wound more intently i was doing it every week. My results stalled because i think i wasn't giving myself enough time to heal. Not every scalp is the same, not every body processes healing the same. Hell i read follica intends to go 5mm deep? Which is a huge variation, obviously in a controlled environment. Just proves theres alot we still don't know.

 

[sportsguy97]

@Dyingdome firstly....I think you are clearly a naturally paranoid person, the fact that you have been battling hair loss as you say for so long (5 years), yet have a complete full head of hair with very little loss as far as I can see, pretty much tells us this....you have nothing more than a slightly more mature hairline.

Secondly....that second picture, shows lots of new hairs starting to come through on your temples, which give it a month or so will start to fill that area in.

I've been doing this for 6 months nearly......I'm actually coming off the tail end of my first shed which hadn't happened at all for the first 4 months after my hair was getting thicker and thicker month by month...…your hair has to shed to come back thicker....this is a normal hair cycle for which itself last 4 months....I would imagine that your hair line that's been "decimated" will come back thicker over the coming months.

Annnnnddd chill.

I definitely agree here. I never noticed a huge shed of how i styled my hair but i know for sure when i look at my hair up close, everytime i se thicker hairs they are smaller and beginning to grow.

I think sometimes those intermediate hairs that provide coverage fall out and people go crazy, when in reality they should grow back thicker.

 

[Leauxi]

So I'm a longtime lurker who has rarely ever posted, I think the only reason I did was for the Brotzu discord, but I won't get into that s*** show.

I have followed this thread and the development of microneedling/dermarolling closely and I have no doubt that this has substantially assisted some people with regrowth and its awesome that these people have benefited. Due to these great results we've been seeing I decided to include this in my regimen and was hoping for similar affects, unfortunately this has not been the case. I don't want to rain on the parade, especially after another example of the benefits just being posted, but what I've experienced is the opposite of others and believe it is important to include this in the overall picture so people are aware it is possible to have negative outcomes. Here's some background:

• Starting noticing very very slight recession/thinning around age 30
• Age 30-31 tried the misc natural options, to no avail (obviously)
• Age 32-33 starting experimenting with various forms of minoxidil. Never had results or regrowth, continued to lose at a very slow rate
• Age 34 started to include finasteride. Started with Morr F for 6 months, then switched to oral. Got really weird sides with oral like vertigo and multiple inner ear infections so stopped and went back to Morr F. Again, no real results but was losing so slowly I figured I prob would be a Norwood 2-2.5 by the time I was 50+. No one ever knew I had any hairloss issues besides my wife and even she couldn't really tell unless I took hi-res pics and showed her what I was seeing. I could always style it and there was never any indication visually.
• Age 35 (Now) stumbled across this and other threads last November. Got the Dr Pen, 12-point needles and started going at it once a week at 1.5 depth, no topicals for 24 hrs after. Up into January things were looking good, could def tell a difference in thickness/scalp health and thought I finally found something that works, man was I in for a surprise. Fast forward to February and March, I have lost an absolute S*** TON of hair. My entire hairline has been decimated, and I now have diffuse thinning all over the front of my scalp, which is where I have been focusing the rolling on.

This is all irrelevant without pics so I have included one from last August/Sept basically right before I started rolling. Which everyone can see it looks like a normal head of hair styled. I'm sure most would be like wtf are you even doing on here but I cut my own hair weekly and could def tell I was heading for a Norwood 2 at some point. My hairline used to be so low it was actually a little weird looking so for me it was apparent I was losing ground. The second one is from last night. Yes the length is much shorter but I had to cut it this short cause the density got so poor it looked terrible all thin and whispy. So after 5 months straight of keeping the same routine, and only adding in the rolling, I have gone from basically a full head of hair to the fast track to a Norwood 3+ at this rate, and in a matter of about 2 months.

I guess the point of posting this is one, to at least raise the topic of this not only being a treatment that may not work for everyone, but it is a possibility it makes things worse. And two, I'd like to hear opinions on where to go from here. Not to try and jack the thread but I'm at a loss of what to do now. I feel I got greedy and should've just left things alone and now I'm paying for it. Should I stop rolling if it honestly just looks worse each week after I roll. Or should I continue for a year and hope this was a massive shed from the treatments finally taking having an impact? I've never even experienced a shed from years of minoxidil and a good 18 months worth of top/oral finasteride use so that's confusing as well. It's a hard decision from this standpoint due to the possibility I keep accelerating loss by rolling. I know there's one or two instances of it taking almost a year to see results but I don't remember it getting much worse at 5-6months, but correct me if I'm wrong. Any help or advise is greatly appreciated.

View attachment 116709 View attachment 116710

Hey mate. Do you have an underlying inflammatory condition you're aware of? i.e. Crohn's disease, or CIRS. Supposedly dermarolling with systemic inflammation can worsen your hair.

 

[NarWhal7]

Hey y'all. Still lurkin'

Nice to see more success stories and collect all the latest info/reports.

I'm at my 10 month mark today. Still gaining. Still needling.

I have a diffuse pattern for sure, still got work to do. Each month I notice it filling in more though and hairs able to grow longer. Will definitely have new photos at my 1 years mark.

Keep rollin.

 

[aldog]

Supposedly dermarolling with systemic inflammation can worsen your hair.

Link?

 

[wannahaveagoodtime]

For those using castor oil, do you use it as a treatment where you leave it in for a while then wash it out, or do you just put it in and leave it like a styling product

I use it as a treatment and leave it on my scalp overnight. Castor oil mimics PGE2 and also deceases some PGD2 in your scalp.

 

[tomcat]

Maybe / maybe not.

4 months dermapen through really thick hair maybe the same as 0 months dermapen. Where you bleeding?

3 months pen. Are you 1.75mm - 2mm? Bleeding? If not maybe you need to bleed and do it hard for 6 more months.

2 mm and believe me no matter how much hard I go I just don't bleed only redness and some red dots here and there .reduced it to once in 2 weeks lets see what happens maybe my scalp need more time to heal

 

[ghosthairkillah]

Does anyone else feel like their Dr. Pen "catches"? I've buzzed my hair and it just feels like it catches on my scalp when I try to do near my crown. It's frustrating because I feel like I'm not needling as effectively there because of it and while it's red post-session, I bleed basically up to the point of where it starts catching then it stops.

 

[Rudi]

To the people not getting the results you want early on, maybe try switching things up. We've seen rolling working in different methods on here. We've have seen guys get results in this thread from different angles when rolling. Variables Include......

Intensity - Some are needling light, some a couple of passes, some with high intensity.

Frequency - Some are doing it every other day, some weekly or every two-three weeks.

Depth - Obviously will vary.

Supplemental treatments - Topicals, With/without minoxidil, finasteride. Ect.


Now for my anecdote. I'm still seeing continued thickening every month 3.5 months in. I originally started at 1.75 weekly and felt i was seeing results. Now however i have switched to 1.75 every two weeks. But i'm wounding alot harder. I think i go 12-15 passes on every area of my head with my DR Pen. I take breaks and do this over 20-30 minute period. I don't get crazy amounts of blood at all, but there are blood spots all over. I use a new needle everytime. It has definitely led to an uptick in results i believe.

Point being - When i originally started to wound more intently i was doing it every week. My results stalled because i think i wasn't giving myself enough time to heal. Not every scalp is the same, not every body processes healing the same. Hell i read follica intends to go 5mm deep? Which is a huge variation, obviously in a controlled environment. Just proves theres alot we still don't know.

I believe that the best strategy is to have longer healing periods at the beginning and reducing them slowly to find the most effective time period. Once a month 1.5mm has probably no negative effects from what has been observed. But on the polar opposite, 1.5mm every other day most likely has negative effects. The art is finding the right time period (apart from depth). But...hair growth is so slow

 

[INT]

Hey y'all. Still lurkin'

Nice to see more success stories and collect all the latest info/reports.

I'm at my 10 month mark today. Still gaining. Still needling.

I have a diffuse pattern for sure, still got work to do. Each month I notice it filling in more though and hairs able to grow longer. Will definitely have new photos at my 1 years mark.

Keep rollin.

Cool. Only needling?

 

[Bitless]

Okay so another report about my scalp if someone care, on Saturday i reported that my scalp got real harder, Saturday was day after my session and i was worried about if i did it too much. Now it’s Tuesday my scalp is surprisingly flexible. I guess this is the good thing, more blood flow

 

[Seuxin]

Hello Guys,

Is it ok to buy the Dr Pen A6 ? Good stuff or shitty stuff ? Thanks

 

[Derelict]

Hello Guys,

Is it ok to buy the Dr Pen A6 ? Good stuff or shitty stuff ? Thanks

The A6 Ultima is good stuff