Website explains why HM/new discoveries shrouded in secrecy

[Python]

First off, I disagree with the part about Spencer Kobren. I do believe him to be a good and sincere person who does a lot to bring to light the plight of hair loss sufferers and trying to get the media to see hair loss as a devastating condition rather than comedic fodder.

But I've always thought that a lot of the hair transplant surgeons tried to do their best to lambast the field of hair multiplication. When asked about the prospect of HM, they almost always give ridiculously long timelines of when it be available to the public and are always quick to point out the hurdles and drawbacks associated with HM. And despite the fact that hair transplantation is really only a very niche market (only a small scintilla of hair loss sufferers even get hair transplants), these hair transplant surgeons never seem to make any effort towards innovation at all (unless it is another form of a hair transplant). IMO, they do this because hair transplantation generates massive amounts of money for them and HM would make their cash cow procedures obsolete. Nobody wants to lose money, especially the very large amounts that they are making. If a real form of HM became available, or even a superior treatment to the inferior options that we have today, it would put a massive dent in their profit margins.

Don't be so naive. He has a forum where he removes people who make threads about crowd funding. So any thread that actually has a chance to make a real difference, he removes.

He has so much fame in the hair loss industry. He is ideal for a crowdfunding project. But of course, that would be bad for business in the long run.

 

[hellouser]

I think, from my own observations, there are more women than not, say, mid-40s and up who have noticeable hair loss. True, we don't lose it like men in the Norwood pattern, but, to us, diffuse thinning where WE notice it on ourselves affects us greatly even if the average person does not notice it. The problem is, not enough of us make a big enough issue of it. I see these women with thin hair that I wouldn't be caught dead with walking around in public, smiling, laughing, conversing, and I wonder what the hell's wrong with me. Sometimes I think the answer is for all of us ladies to descend upon psychiatrists' offices with severe depression and suicidal thoughts because of hair loss. Sound crazy? Maybe if women lost hair like men (Norwood pattern), they'd freak out more and know just how bad men feel.

Physically we feel fine. But it's the social rejection that hurts. Being treated like a second class citizen would have women in an uproar. I wonder why more men don't speak out?

 

[kirk]

This might be a little deep for this discussion, but the great Nikola Tesla has drawn interesting comparisons between the development of modern human society and that of the Bee.

The Queen is the Center of Life "BUT the female mind has demonstrated a capacity for all the mental acquirements and achievements of men, and as generations ensue that capacity will be expanded; the average woman will be as well educated as the average man, and then better educated, for the dormant faculties of her brain will be stimulated to an activity that will be all the more intense and powerful because of centuries of repose. Woman will ignore precedent and startle civilization with their progress. "The acquisition of new fields of endeavor by women, their gradual usurpation of leadership, will dull and finally dissipate feminine sensibilities, will choke the maternal instinct, so that marriage and motherhood may become abhorrent and human civilization draw closer and closer to the perfect civilization of the bee." The significance of this lies in the principle dominating the economy of the bee--the most highly organized and intelligently coordinated system of any form of nonrational animal life--the all-governing supremacy of the instinct for immortality which makes divinity out of motherhood. The center of all bee life is the queen. She dominates the hive, not through hereditary right, for any egg may be hatched into a reigning queen, but because she is the womb of this insect race. We Can Only Sit and Wonder THERE are the vast, desexualized armies of workers whose sole aim and happiness in life is hard work. It is the perfection of communism, of socialized, cooperative life wherein all things, including the young, are the property and concern of all. Then there are the virgin bees, the princess bees, the females which are selected from the eggs of the queen when they are hatched and preserved in case an unfruitful queen should bring disappointment to the hive. And there are the male bees, few in number, unclean of habit, tolerated only because they are necessary to mate with the queen. When the time is ripe for the queen to take her nuptial flight the male bees are drilled and regimented. The queen passes the drones which guard the gate of the hive, and the male bees follow her in rustling array. Strongest of all the inhabitants of the hive, more powerful than any of her subjects, the queen launches into the air, spiraling upward and upward, the male bees following. Some of the pursuers weaken and fail, drop out of the nuptial chase, but the queen wings higher and higher until a point is reached in the far ether where but one of the male bees remains. By the inflexible law of natural selection he is the strongest, and he mates with the queen. At the moment of marriage his body splits asunder and he perishes. The queen returns to the hive, impregnated, carrying with her tens of thousands of eggs--a future city of bees, and then begins the cycle of reproduction, the concentration of the teeming life of the hive in unceasing work for the birth of a new generation. Imagination falters at the prospect of human analogy to this mysterious and superbly dedicated civilization of the bee; but when we consider how the human instinct for race perpetuation dominates life in its normal and exaggerated and perverse manifestations, there is ironic justice in the possibility that this instinct, with the continuing intellectual advance of women, may be finally expressed after the manner of the bee, though it will take centuries to break down the habits and customs of peoples that bar the way to such a simiply and scientifically ordered civilization. We have seen a beginning of this in the United States. In Wisconsin the sterilization of confirmed criminals and pre-marriage examination of males is required by law, while the doctrine of eugenics is now boldly preached where a few decades ago its advocacy was a statutory offense. Old men have dreamed dreams and young men have seen visions from the beginning of time. We of today can only sit and wonder when a scientist has his say. ​

Basically we are DRONES

 

[F2005]

I think, from my own observations, there are more women than not, say, mid-40s and up who have noticeable hair loss. True, we don't lose it like men in the Norwood pattern, but, to us, diffuse thinning where WE notice it on ourselves affects us greatly even if the average person does not notice it. The problem is, not enough of us make a big enough issue of it. I see these women with thin hair that I wouldn't be caught dead with walking around in public, smiling, laughing, conversing, and I wonder what the hell's wrong with me. Sometimes I think the answer is for all of us ladies to descend upon psychiatrists' offices with severe depression and suicidal thoughts because of hair loss. Sound crazy? Maybe if women lost hair like men (Norwood pattern), they'd freak out more and know just how bad men feel.

I've always viewed "bald" and "thinning" as completely different things, just like I believe there is a huge difference between an NW2 and an NW6. Although I am thinning pretty badly, I can still walk out of the house without a hat on. I could never do that if I was an NW6. But I appreciate your proactive stance though, wanting to do something about your hair loss rather than simply accepting something that you hate. BTW, I see that you're from CT which is cool. I have very positive memories of hanging out in "The Valley".

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http://www.baldnessbattlers.com/aaaframeset.htm

an article from the site

Also, a quick housekeeping note: some one said that this thread was bumped but I don't think it was. I believe that I looked earlier in the day and saw that "Chewbaca" posted this today, but now its says that it was posted in 2005. There appears to be some clerical errors in this thread. For instance, Hellouser, it lists your normal stats on Page 2, but on Page 1 it has you listed as "21gone" and your join date in 2004. I am just mentioning this clerical error because it could have bearing on the merit of the post. For instance, if this guy posted this in 2005, it could easily be construed that HM was "just around the corner" back then and since 10 years later we have no HM, it could discredit the poster's claims. However, if it says that this was posted today, it would have more merit because it proves that this is not a false claim that was posted from years past.

 

[bushbush]

This might be a little deep for this discussion, but the great Nikola Tesla has drawn interesting comparisons between the development of modern human society and that of the Bee.



Basically we are DRONES

Are you suggesting that people with male pattern baldness are 'drones'?

 

[Justinian]

You also have to factor in age. Severe hair loss on a 20 year old guy (which isn't that uncommon) probably affects him a lot more than mild-moderate thinning on a 50-60 year old woman (the age most women get hair thinning according to webmd). Now for the unlucky women that get it in their teens/20s I admit that is much worse for them.

 

[Fena2000]

The natural colour and curliness, or otherwise, of your hair is a genetic lottery. So too is the matter of whether or not you are going to keep producing the hair on your head by natural means. Yes, you can blame your parents for FPHL – even if neither they nor your siblings show any sign of hair thinning.
Rather than there being a single gene behind FPHL, scientists now believe that at least five genes are involved. How these genes combine determines whether you will develop FPHL, how fast the condition will progress and how much hair you will ultimately lose.

5 genes are involved, how unlucky can you be to have these 5 genes combine a certain way to develop pattern hair loss, uggh!
A girl I know, she started thinning in her twenties, her mom and dad both have hair loss problems so it made sense. Her youngest sister started thinning really badly too, but her oldest sister has no sign of thinning at all, how is that possible When both parents are balding? All three of them don't smoke or drink, eat healthy, so environment playing part in it,... nope. It's all about genetic luck. And just like in the animal world, those with bad genetics are pushed on the side, at least that's how I feel.

 

[Python]

The natural colour and curliness, or otherwise, of your hair is a genetic lottery. So too is the matter of whether or not you are going to keep producing the hair on your head by natural means. Yes, you can blame your parents for FPHL – even if neither they nor your siblings show any sign of hair thinning.
Rather than there being a single gene behind FPHL, scientists now believe that at least five genes are involved. How these genes combine determines whether you will develop FPHL, how fast the condition will progress and how much hair you will ultimately lose.

5 genes are involved, how unlucky can you be to have these 5 genes combine a certain way to develop pattern hair loss, uggh!
A girl I know, she started thinning in her twenties, her mom and dad both have hair loss problems so it made sense. Her youngest sister started thinning really badly too, but her oldest sister has no sign of thinning at all, how is that possible When both parents are balding? All three of them don't smoke or drink, eat healthy, so environment playing part in it,... nope. It's all about genetic luck. And just like in the animal world, those with bad genetics are pushed on the side, at least that's how I feel.

Well it's also a matter of probability, she just got lucky. We have just been dealt the sh!t hand!

 

[Fbalding84]

Cant say everything in this post is legit. But in my personal and humble opinion.

Spencer is only a guy lurking to make money of us suffers. He has no other intentions than to make money for his own. He is indeed a proxy for the incumbent hair loss industry. Facts are facts. You can't send pm on his site, you gey kicked out if he doesn't like certain things. Etc etc. he is not the only one without naming others.

But in reality all well known posters on most forums are on the lobbyist bandwagon. All of them work directly or indirectly for large,-small companies or clinics. Whether they're compansated by free products or hard cash, doesn't really matter. They promote savage treatments and snake oils. Not to mention manhood killing pills.

Let's wake up. There is no cure available to the public (yet) and hardly any real honest forums. (This one has been great btw).

Ps. And why not rock the boat? Sometimes the right thing to do outweighs any kind of financial compensation. Use VPN to cover your ip and create new nickname or pass the info to others that you trust.

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Unless rocking the boat is a clever new strategic approach. Good Cop Bad Cop

Result: same bs treatments

 

[resu]

hair transplant docs will always be in demand, with unlimited hair grafts people will still want to change their hairline's if by no other reason than pure vanity.

 

[kirk]

Are you suggesting that people with male pattern baldness are 'drones'?

no. hellouser asked: why don't men speak up?

I was using an abstract analogy to explain why men don't have the same luxuries in our society when it comes to things that bother us.

 

[Swoop]

Don't be so naive. He has a forum where he removes people who make threads about crowd funding. So any thread that actually has a chance to make a real difference, he removes.

He has so much fame in the hair loss industry. He is ideal for a crowdfunding project. But of course, that would be bad for business in the long run.

Did he seriously ban someone/remove because someone made a topic about crowdfunding?

 

[Python]

Did he seriously ban someone/remove because someone made a topic about crowdfunding?

Umm, yes, me!!! I posted the male pattern baldness foundation at night and in like 6 hours it was a 4 page thread and everyone was excited. Then, his loyal minions came into work and saw it as a threat to their comfortable lifestyle. So they had to exterminate it or risk unemployment in the future.

Had my idea worked, we would have an amazing site by now, lots of supporters with a huge email list. But most importantly, it would have lots of money in the bank that we could today be giving to Lauster to accelerate his research.

 

[moskva]

Umm, yes, me!!! I posted the male pattern baldness foundation at night and in like 6 hours it was a 4 page thread and everyone was excited. Then, his loyal minions came into work and saw it as a threat to their comfortable lifestyle. So they had to exterminate it or risk unemployment in the future.

Had my idea worked, we would have an amazing site by now, lots of supporters with a huge email list. But most importantly, it would have lots of money in the bank that we could today be giving to Lauster to accelerate his research.

Things seems to be trapped in a circle like always. I remembered a old Chinese saying when I was waiting for the bus today, it says "if you don't accumulate single steps, you will never finish a journey of a thousand miles." Dude, mourn for the past and blaming some douchebags will never give us a step forward. Rather if we ignored all the annoying sh*t and just focus on the work, we would have been in a better place today, and if we start soon, we can save all the possible mourning in the future. What we may learn from the past is the idea is sound and it's able to attract people's interest. Kobren won't be able to block down the whole internet, people will hear when the job is done.

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btw Python do you still have any contact information of those people who showed interest in the male pattern baldness organization project?
I think forming up a rather intact group and gathering new blood whenever possible would be a good idea. I'm not familiar with the English speaking world but is there some group chatting app that everybody use everyday(not like the hair loss forums which people basically won't visit very often, not like facebook on which people just show off their cats, low efficacy in communication, also privacy is low)? We can found a group and discuss a proposal, and whenever help is needed to materialize an idea, people with the willingness and the leisure time can give a hand, nothing of a burden if we have 100 people in the group.

 

[F2005]

Who cares about men's feelings? We're only here to be toyboys and trophy husbands to hypergamic modern females. We're interchangeable, kirk is right, we're drones.

I don't talk about baldness in public anymore, ever. I simply got tired of the ignorance people and especially women show about this disease.

Women will always have their NW1's at hand's reach, and they will always mock and reject the NW4+ while calling them crybabies when they complain about it.

I cannot talk about hair loss to most people either. You can try to explain it until you are blue in the face but if they do not experience significant hair loss for themselves, they will never understand for themselves. I just love their "ho-hum" attitudes too, saying things like "if I go bald, I'll just accept it". But until they practice what they preach, I'll never believe them. Talk is cheap, actions mean everything.

I have a friend who is actually an NW6, shaves his head, and seems to be very secure in who he is. Although I do not agree with his stance, I do respect what he has to say because he actually practices what he preaches.

 

[Chromeo]

I actually do agree with the part about Kobren.

I used to listen to his show whenever I'd read of new developments or discoveries, and I'd be surprised that he would either gloss over the news very quickly or completely ignore it altogether. At the time I just thought he was a wise old cat who had seen it all before, not the kind to give airtime to the latest internet hype until we had real results to speak of. Occasionally freakshow Joe would call in and bring up the latest hot topic from the forums and Kobren would basically roll his eyes and move along quickly.

Eventually I realised the guy just wants to sing the praises of Propecia & the hair-transplant surgeons who basically pay him for his endorsement, nothing more. Fair play to him, it's a free world. Guy's gotta make a buck somehow. Don't expect him to do a damn thing for the cause, though. He's just fine where he is.

Granted, none of these so-called new treatments have amounted to anything, so perhaps he's been right not to give them too much credence or airtime. I'd like to think that one day, something will come along that will be real deal...and Kobren will most likely make little or no mention of it, because it's not really in his interests for people to hold off on those hair transplants and cost his buddies & eventually himself a paycheck.

 

[Python]

Things seems to be trapped in a circle like always. I remembered a old Chinese saying when I was waiting for the bus today, it says "if you don't accumulate single steps, you will never finish a journey of a thousand miles." Dude, mourn for the past and blaming some douchebags will never give us a step forward. Rather if we ignored all the annoying sh*t and just focus on the work, we would have been in a better place today, and if we start soon, we can save all the possible mourning in the future. What we may learn from the past is the idea is sound and it's able to attract people's interest. Kobren won't be able to block down the whole internet, people will hear when the job is done.

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btw Python do you still have any contact information of those people who showed interest in the male pattern baldness organization project?
I think forming up a rather intact group and gathering new blood whenever possible would be a good idea. I'm not familiar with the English speaking world but is there some group chatting app that everybody use everyday(not like the hair loss forums which people basically won't visit very often, not like facebook on which people just show off their cats, low efficacy in communication, also privacy is low)? We can found a group and discuss a proposal, and whenever help is needed to materialize an idea, people with the willingness and the leisure time can give a hand, nothing of a burden if we have 100 people in the group.

Nah, I closed my mailchimp account when I saw the low number of people willing to actually do something. Back then the biggest objection people gave was to who would we give the money to. Now that we could focus exclusively on Lauster's team, I'm guessing it could play better.

Still, there is but a handful of people here willing to actually contribute. Even the real scientists in this forum with actual degrees would rather spend countless hours disecting rat studies and trying to see if they can find the "missing link". And for what...? What good will come of it having intelligent discussions about DHT, growth factors and water fall effects of the root cause? I'll tell you what, nothing... Its just another way of coping with hair loss, venting. Because they should know that even if they do find some "hidden gem", maybe something the researchers overlooked, it will be for nothing. They're not going to contact Lauster, Cotsaralis, Garza or any of the other hair loss researchers anyways. So the way I see it, they're wasting their time just like everyone else here. Even if they don't care to admit it. Is this not true...? Or do you actually enjoy coming here, correcting the ignorant members who can't seem to understand the scientific process and the actual complexity of working in the field of science?

I have been here long enough to know they are very smart people. Why not lend us a hand writing the content for the website? You know your knowledge would be accurate and should be easier to digest by Lauster's team. I wish I could do it myself, I really do, I would do it today if I could. However, that is not a gift I have. So, Benj and any of the other scientists care to participate in something that can actually make an impact? Or do you want this forum to go back to the old days? The good old days where a new rat study would point to another piece of the puzzle?

Anyways, that's all I have to say. Maybe this comment will just get overlooked like every of the other ones actually worth while.

 

[moskva]

Nah, I closed my mailchimp account when I saw the low number of people willing to actually do something. Back then the biggest objection people gave was to who would we give the money to. Now that we could focus exclusively on Lauster's team, I'm guessing it could play better.

Still, there is but a handful of people here willing to actually contribute. Even the real scientists in this forum with actual degrees would rather spend countless hours disecting rat studies and trying to see if they can find the "missing link". And for what...? What good will come of it having intelligent discussions about DHT, growth factors and water fall effects of the root cause? I'll tell you what, nothing... Its just another way of coping with hair loss, venting. Because they should know that even if they do find some "hidden gem", maybe something the researchers overlooked, it will be for nothing. They're not going to contact Lauster, Cotsaralis, Garza or any of the other hair loss researchers anyways. So the way I see it, they're wasting their time just like everyone else here. Even if they don't care to admit it. Is this not true...? Or do you actually enjoy coming here, correcting the ignorant members who can't seem to understand the scientific process and the actual complexity of working in the field of science?

I have been here long enough to know they are very smart people. Why not lend us a hand writing the content for the website? You know your knowledge would be accurate and should be easier to digest by Lauster's team. I wish I could do it myself, I really do, I would do it today if I could. However, that is not a gift I have. So, Benj and any of the other scientists care to participate in something that can actually make an impact? Or do you want this forum to go back to the old days? The good old days where a new rat study would point to another piece of the puzzle?

Anyways, that's all I have to say. Maybe this comment will just get overlooked like every of the other ones actually worth while.

You may wanna start a new thread dude, seriously, page 5 of an ancient random thread might not be something that people always check out.
I suggest restart the project with accumulating manpower first(with some platform that provides a constant basis for communication), and I'm sure there are some people who wanna join the crusade. The website content, the investment strategy, the negotiation, the legislation assessment all starts here. Don't be obsessed with the past failure, for we can make a better future.

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Python you may wanna check out the Whatsapp Messenger thing, that seems to be very similar to what I meant

 

[isishearmyplea]

Whatsapp messenger is good for a closed group. . . . Python, you can actually give it a shot again, a small team where people are in touch with other, on a more personal level may be more productive.
Have a good one fellas!
**** this male pattern baldness **** :/

 

[Python]

Whatsapp messenger is good for a closed group. . . . Python, you can actually give it a shot again, a small team where people are in touch with other, on a more personal level may be more productive.
Have a good one fellas!
**** this male pattern baldness **** :/

So I'm guessing both y'all are going to be a part of it (moskva , isishearmyplea)?
Alright, I'll set up a website, PM me your phone numbers so we can get whatsapp group ready.