Where is everyone from?

[The Gardener]

 

[moksel]

This is a very interesting discussion to follow for me as a European guy, Dutch to be more specific.

For me it is unbelievable that any civilized man would argue pro gun possession. I guess this has something to do with the soft approach that we are brought up with in western Europe.

Most of the pro reasoning I see here is that the weaker defender can defend against a physically more able agressor. I agree with this, it would be great if we were all physically equal such that we would all reason ourselves out of each argument. One can argue that the gun is this "grand" equalizer of all.

I however can not disagree more. The equalling reasoning is flawed. My belief is that guns are only oil on the fire. When an agressor knows that he might have to deal with the force of a gun of a defender he will only employ more force to begin with.

Say I want to rob the store of the old lady on the corner, and I know that she is unarmed and physically inferior to me, I will use next to no force to rob her. If I know she has a gun under the counter I'm gonna bust one of her kneecaps first when I run into the store.

Now your opinion is that grandma had a fighting chance because she owned a gun, however because of the threat to the agressor grandma is now not only poor but also bleeding on the floor crying that she is probably never going to be able walk again.

Giving the guy on the street a gun does not make him more eloquent ore more prone to reasoning than a guy without a gun. It will make everybody more agressive and more prone to choose for the "easy" way out. Give a guy to much to drink, he is unable to reason but he still has his "easy" way out in the trunk of his car or the bedroom closet.

Even if one does not agree with this reasoning, look at the number of deaths in the USA. This is higher than ANY OTHER COUNTRY that is not in some kind of civil war and also has a ban on arms. For me the only people in this world should be highly trained policemen and the army. Saying that everyone should be allowed to own a gun because there are bad people that also have guns is not the solution and is only going to result in more fatalities. Open your eyes man, the numbers don't lie.

 

[Smooth]

Although i don't have a strong opinion on the subject (lean more towards the "everyone should have a gun" attitude)
but think about this; if you knew that every person on earth might have a gun under their coat... would you rush into a feud....

btw, your grandma analogy doesn't hold since grandma could easily - and probably would - hide the piece...(and maybe save a few lives.. :dunno: )
unless your granny loves the attention... :S

 

[timbo]

This is a very interesting discussion to follow for me as a European guy, Dutch to be more specific.

For me it is unbelievable that any civilized man would argue pro gun possession. I guess this has something to do with the soft approach that we are brought up with in western Europe.

Most of the pro reasoning I see here is that the weaker defender can defend against a physically more able agressor. I agree with this, it would be great if we were all physically equal such that we would all reason ourselves out of each argument. One can argue that the gun is this "grand" equalizer of all.

I however can not disagree more. The equalling reasoning is flawed. My belief is that guns are only oil on the fire. When an agressor knows that he might have to deal with the force of a gun of a defender he will only employ more force to begin with.

Say I want to rob the store of the old lady on the corner, and I know that she is unarmed and physically inferior to me, I will use next to no force to rob her. If I know she has a gun under the counter I'm gonna bust one of her kneecaps first when I run into the store.

Now your opinion is that grandma had a fighting chance because she owned a gun, however because of the threat to the agressor grandma is now not only poor but also bleeding on the floor crying that she is probably never going to be able walk again.

Giving the guy on the street a gun does not make him more eloquent ore more prone to reasoning than a guy without a gun. It will make everybody more agressive and more prone to choose for the "easy" way out. Give a guy to much to drink, he is unable to reason but he still has his "easy" way out in the trunk of his car or the bedroom closet.

Even if one does not agree with this reasoning, look at the number of deaths in the USA. This is higher than ANY OTHER COUNTRY that is not in some kind of civil war and also has a ban on arms. For me the only people in this world should be highly trained policemen and the army. Saying that everyone should be allowed to own a gun because there are bad people that also have guns is not the solution and is only going to result in more fatalities. Open your eyes man, the numbers don't lie.

Your argument is irrelevant because gun owners don't post signs on their door saying "I am a gun owner." Plus, if someone is going to rob a convenient store, they are going to plan for the worst and use a gun anyway... I don't wish to live in a society where criminals can have guns, and law abiding citizens cannot.

 

[s.a.f]

But here in the UK 99.9% of criminals dont have guns. Why? Because since they are not freely available to the public they either dont need one or cant get hold of one.

 

[timbo]

But here in the UK 99.9% of criminals dont have guns.

Way to pull that out of your ***. The UK has it's fair share of firearm related offenses.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6960431.stm

 

[s.a.f]

But here in the UK 99.9% of criminals dont have guns.

Way to pull that out of your ***. The UK has it's fair share of firearm related offenses.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6960431.stm

Not in comparison to the U.S, not by a long way, the difference in the U.S figures is about 70x as much. Look at the stats I posted previously.

LOL look at your link 507 'incidents' a year, 9 young people killed on 2007! The U.S wishes its could have that few in a day let alone a year!

Think about it over here yeah there are illegal guns but of all the criminals arrested in the U.K today what % do you think were packing a gun. Thats why we dont even need to arm our police.

Obviously if you are a bigtime crimelord or gangster you would have one, but its most likely that it would only be used on a opposing gangster and not to harm the general public. And thats where the homicide rate is rising.
Wheareas in the U.S every 2 bit criminal is likely to be armed.
And thats the difference between us.

 

[timbo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6960431.stm[/url]

Not in comparison to the U.S, not by a long way, the difference in the U.S figures is about 70x as much. Look at the stats I posted previously.

LOL look at your link 507 'incidents' a year, 9 young people killed on 2007! The U.S wishes its could have that few in a day let alone a year!

Think about it over here yeah there are illegal guns but of all the criminals arrested in the U.K today what % do you think were packing a gun. Thats why we dont even need to arm our police.

Obviously if you are a bigtime crimelord or gangster you would have one, but its most likely that it would only be used on a opposing gangster and not to harm the general public. And thats where the homicide rate is rising.
Wheareas in the U.S every 2 bit criminal is likely to be armed.
And thats the difference between us.[/quote:11xzmwmx]

Obviously firearm related deaths are going to be higher in the U.S. (Where firearms are legal). That is a no-brainer, and nobody argued against that. The question is, who is dying? Personally, I am okay with criminals getting shot by people who defend themselves. It seems to be a pretty good deterrent.

 

[s.a.f]

[quote="s.a.f":rrqm6x9l]But here in the UK 99.9% of criminals dont have guns.

Not in comparison to the U.S, not by a long way, the difference in the U.S figures is about 70x as much. Look at the stats I posted previously.

LOL look at your link 507 'incidents' a year, 9 young people killed on 2007! The U.S wishes its could have that few in a day let alone a year!

Think about it over here yeah there are illegal guns but of all the criminals arrested in the U.K today what % do you think were packing a gun. Thats why we dont even need to arm our police.

Obviously if you are a bigtime crimelord or gangster you would have one, but its most likely that it would only be used on a opposing gangster and not to harm the general public. And thats where the homicide rate is rising.
Wheareas in the U.S every 2 bit criminal is likely to be armed.
And thats the difference between us.

Obviously firearm related deaths are going to be higher in the U.S. (Where firearms are legal). That is a no-brainer, and nobody argued against that. The question is, who is dying? Personally, I am okay with criminals getting shot by people who defend themselves. It seems to be a pretty good deterrent.[/quote:rrqm6x9l]

Yes but thats the whole point most people being killed by guns are NOT intruders they are innocent people.

 

[s.a.f]

Not in comparison to the U.S, not by a long way, the difference in the U.S figures is about 70x as much. Look at the stats I posted previously.

LOL look at your link 507 'incidents' a year, 9 young people killed on 2007! The U.S wishes its could have that few in a day let alone a year!

Yes but your population is drastically smaller, so naturally your annual homicide rate would be smaller.

UK Population- 62,041,708

USA Population- 303,824,640

Yes and taking that into consideration your country is still 5X more dangerous. Or in otherwords you have 5x the population but 25x the murder rate.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita

 

[HughJass]

moar pro-gun positives-

THE .50 CALIBER Bushmaster bolt action rifle is a serious weapon. The model that Pvt. 1st Class Lee Pray is saving up for has a 2,500-yard range and comes with a Mark IV scope and an easy-load magazine. When the 25-year-old drove me to a mall in Watertown, New York, near the Fort Drum Army base, he brought me to see it in its glass case—he visits it periodically, like a kid coveting something at the toy store. It'll take plenty of military paychecks to cover the $5,600 price tag, but he considers the Bushmaster essential in his preparations to take on the US government when it declares martial law.

...In the belief that the government is already turning on its citizens, they are recruiting military buddies, stashing weapons, running drills, and outlining a plan of action. For years, they say, police and military have trained side by side in local anti-terrorism exercises around the nation.

...In Pray's estimate, it might not be long (months, perhaps a year) before President Obama finds some pretext—a pandemic, a natural disaster, a terror attack—to impose martial law, ban interstate travel, and begin detaining citizens en masse. One of his fellow Oath Keepers, a former infantryman, advised me to prepare a "bug out" bag with 39 items including gas masks, ammo, and water purification tablets, so that I'd be ready to go "when the sh*t hits the fan."

When it does, Pray and his buddies plan to go AWOL and make their way to their "fortified bunker"—the home of one comrade's parents in rural Idaho—where they've stocked survival gear, generators, food, and weapons. If it becomes necessary, they say, they will turn those guns against their fellow soldiers.

..In Pray's estimate, it might not be long (months, perhaps a year) before President Obama finds some pretext—a pandemic, a natural disaster, a terror attack—to impose martial law, ban interstate travel, and begin detaining citizens en masse. One of his fellow Oath Keepers, a former infantryman, advised me to prepare a "bug out" bag with 39 items including gas masks, ammo, and water purification tablets, so that I'd be ready to go "when the sh*t hits the fan."

....Now Pray is both a Birther and a Truther. He believes he is following an illegitimate, foreign-born president in a war on terror launched by a government plot—9/11.

....Pray isn't sure how to do this and still cover his ***. He talks to me on the record and agrees to be photographed, even as he hints that the CIA may be listening in on his phone. Although I met him through contacts from the group's Facebook page, Pray, fearing retribution, keeps his Oath Keepers ties unofficial.

.....After a combative Hardball interview in October—host Chris Matthews asked Rhodes whether Oath Keepers had the "firepower to stand up against the federal government"—the group says it gained 2,000 members in three days.

As of mid-January, according to Rhodes, Oath Keepers had at least one chapter in every state and was adding dozens of members daily. Some 14,000 people had signed up as members on the Oath Keepers website while more than 15,000, including dozens of military recruiters, had done so on Facebook. And that doesn't include those who, fearing reprisal, do their networking offline.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03 ... ers?page=1

 

[somone uk]

a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger'

:innocent: :innocent:

 

[Shma]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology ... -22097499/

Three-year-old shot dead in Wii controller mix up

*
*

9/03/2010

A youngster has been tragically killed after she mistakenly picked up a loaded handgun, thinking it was a gun-like Wii controller.

Three-year-old Cheyenne Alexis McKeehan from Wilson County, Tennessee, died following a fatal a shot to the abdomen from her stepfather's .380 calibre pistol.

The semi-automatic had been left within reach of the child on a coffee table in the living room at the girl’s house.

Advertisement - article continues below »

According to girl’s mother, the child had been playing a Nintendo game that uses a gun peripheral and had confused the real firearm for the replica.

She was rushed to hospital, but pronounced dead the same night.

Her step-father told police that he had left the handgun on the table after hearing what he thought was a prowler outside the house.

Wilson County Sheriff Terry Ashe said that the case is being investigated and no charges have so far been filed relating to the incident.

Pro America! GUNS! :bravo:

 

[timbo]

Should I go pull up an article that covers a young child involved in a knife related accident as evidence that we should ban steak-knives in our kitchens?

 

[squeegee]

Should I go pull up an article that covers a young child involved in a knife related accident as evidence that we should ban steak-knives in our kitchens?

Knife is not as lethal as a gun. Guns are useless but I can use a knife for my steak on the barbecue right now. unk:

 

[HughJass]

Should I go pull up an article that covers a young child involved in a knife related accident as evidence that we should ban steak-knives in our kitchens?

rather live in a society full of knife crime than one full of gun crime any day of the week

 

[somone uk]

a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger'

:innocent: :innocent:

Who is that chick? She's hot!

Whitney Stevens
she did a gangbang when she was 19, i just wish i was in the gang :hump:

 

[somone uk]

Should I go pull up an article that covers a young child involved in a knife related accident as evidence that we should ban steak-knives in our kitchens?

i would but i have done jui jitsu
[youtube:2ejab2xn]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLyBpiZxGdY&feature=related[/youtube:2ejab2xn]

unfortunately guns don't need to be point blank unlike a knife

 

[HughJass]

she did a gangbang when she was 19

the kind of girl you'd want to bring home to meet your parents then....

 

[timbo]

Should I go pull up an article that covers a young child involved in a knife related accident as evidence that we should ban steak-knives in our kitchens?

rather live in a society full of knife crime than one full of gun crime any day of the week

I'm not saying that there isn't relevance behind an anti-gun argument, just pointing out the blatant idiocy of Shma's post!