Who had take Accutane for acne? Come here!! we also have CCCAlopecia!!

[Selb]

This is actually pretty interesting. Is there a way to test for retinoic acid levels? I’m assuming it’s not the amount that’s changed but the metabolism of it...

 

[Selb]

So I’ve looked into this, the key article to read is this:

https://etd.ohiolink.edu/apexprod/rws_etd/send_file/send?accession=osu1429824777&disposition=inline

@Gunnersup it might be worth a try reaching out to the researchers who wrote that study.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

There are inhibitors of ALDH1A1 , appeareantly it is used a lot in ovarian cancer research

A37 Supplier | CAS 896795-60-1 | CM 037 | Tocris Bioscience

View and buy high quality A37 from Tocris Bioscience. ALDH1A1 inhibitor.

www.tocris.com

Nonetheless, the paper proposes that reduced Wnt signaling is the culprit, and luckily we have a few ways to increase Wnt nowadays like microneedling/minoxidil and upcoming Wnt drugs. I also did accutane and suffer from agressive alopecia, I have always noticed that some of my follicles fall with a hard ball in the root, as if there is no sebum and cicatriced so this makes a lot of sense.

Anyway, current treatments work pretty good for me. I would still have gone for it because my acne was pretty bad and I was cured thanks to it.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Oh great, appereantly inhibiting ALDH1A1 is related to healing cancer, makes you wonder the implications of Accutane after all

TAZ induces lung cancer stem cell properties and tumorigenesis by up-regulating ALDH1A1 - PubMed

Recent studies suggest that lung cancer stem cells (CSCs) may play major roles in lung cancer. Therefore, identification of lung CSC drivers may provide promising targets for lung cancer. TAZ is a transcriptional co-activator and key downstream effector of the Hippo pathway, which plays critical...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The drug to inhibit ALDH1A1 is called A37 and not that expensive actually.

 

[Armando Jose]

No giiizmo , it's not like a 2,3 year interval. It takes place for life and it continue to aggravate your baldness.
Accutane changed how our metabolism synthetise vitaminA,and that lead to high levels of atRA in our tissues,every day and every hour.
it's a change in our RA receptors,etc so it continue for all the life, that's why majority of accutane users don't have acne anymore during their life ( but also a change in how our skin react to the sun,etc)

For an exemple, if we have just Androgenetic Alopecia,the baldness process can take place during 30 years, but in combination with CCCA this process will take place in 15 years or so
AtRA inhibit the Wnt pathway ! and the good function of sebaceous gland. So DHT don't have to do much to kill already affected follicles. And if there's LPP inflammation, it's even worse in the acceleration

It's not 'my theory' guys, it comes from some of the best researchers, and they explained in détails how altered vitA metabolism/signaling lead to hairloss. And how CCCA is working!


@Blondi, no i don't say that. Propecia will work against dht. But it's a matter of proportion, if the hair loss is 50% due to CCCA and 50 to Androgenetic Alopecia, you only fight against one problem.And the proportion of rapid hairloss expansion could really be 80% due to CCCA and just 20% to Androgenetic Alopecia, for exemple/ Or even 100% due to CCCA for those one who were not predisposed to Androgenetic Alopecia.
So if we only fight against DHT, it's a loosing game , cause atRA levels and LPP still continue to kill the follicles.

And yes ultra low dose of accutane could be good to just regulate the sebum excression and it won't change the liver function regarding vitA , the RA receptors,etc..
But the full treatment dose that we took for acne changed our metabolism/signaling for life guys,so it's still contribute to the hairloss process! A cytopathologist in France confirmed me !

So that Aldh1A1 inhibitor could really help us to slow the process

Sorry for my english

- - - Updated - - -

""Follicular localization sites (including hair follicle stem cells) of several WNT signaling molecules are similar to those of synthesis enzymes of retinoic acid (RA), a vitamin A metabolite."

"Retinoic acid (RA) is essential during embryogenesis and for tissue homeostasis, whereas excess RA is well known as a teratogen. In humans, excess RA is associated with hair loss."

We have that constant RA excess for life guys! we have to regulate it

- - - Updated - - -

I have a biopsie soon to diagnosted active LPP

I will ask them if they can also measure atRA levels. If so they will clearly see that the recent study is right and that the aldh1A1 inhibitor is a solution to ,at least, slow my hairloss and try to save the donor area that I loosing fast

"I have a biopsie soon to diagnosted active LPP"
"I will ask them if they can also measure atRA levels. If so they will clearly see that the recent study is right and that the aldh1A1 inhibitor is a solution to ,at least, slow my hairloss and try to save the donor area that I loosing fast"

Any news?

 

[bluecyclone]

Did 2 accuaoclurses in my twenties no hairloss. At 40 started thinning and it is WEIRD AF. Thinning everywhere. Thought it could be autoimmune but can’t get any answers. Hair doctors tell me it’s not just AA but no answers.

 

[Gunnersup]

Did 2 accuaoclurses in my twenties no hairloss. At 40 started thinning and it is WEIRD AF. Thinning everywhere. Thought it could be autoimmune but can’t get any answers. Hair doctors tell me it’s not just AA but no answers.

So you did accutane? Me too. It's what triggered my diffusive hairloss. It's most likely autoimmune according to my doctor

 

[Selb]

I think it can trigger autoimmune hair loss. And the OP’s reasoning makes sense. It may be that disrupted vitamin A metabolism can trigger scarring alopecia of some sort. And accutane is just a heavy dose of vitamin A. So we either solve the autoimmune aspect of it, by using steroids or immunosuppressants.

Or you modify the metabolism of vitamin A, reducing the level of retinoic acid in your tissue. Maybe if you’ve removed the trigger, the alopecia goes away too

 

[Selb]

Oh great, appereantly inhibiting ALDH1A1 is related to healing cancer, makes you wonder the implications of Accutane after all

TAZ induces lung cancer stem cell properties and tumorigenesis by up-regulating ALDH1A1 - PubMed

Recent studies suggest that lung cancer stem cells (CSCs) may play major roles in lung cancer. Therefore, identification of lung CSC drivers may provide promising targets for lung cancer. TAZ is a transcriptional co-activator and key downstream effector of the Hippo pathway, which plays critical...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The drug to inhibit ALDH1A1 is called A37 and not that expensive actually.

The question is can this be used safely and topically? And is this a localized effect or would there need to be a systemic reduction in retinoic acid to fix the issue

 

[kaneki]

I think it can trigger autoimmune hair loss. And the OP’s reasoning makes sense. It may be that disrupted vitamin A metabolism can trigger scarring alopecia of some sort. And accutane is just a heavy dose of vitamin A. So we either solve the autoimmune aspect of it, by using steroids or immunosuppressants.

Or you modify the metabolism of vitamin A, reducing the level of retinoic acid in your tissue. Maybe if you’ve removed the trigger, the alopecia goes away too

I've had thick hair for most of my life, until I took accutane for acne. Accutane triggers this gene, and then my dupa hairloss began. I started taking finasteride at 19 and I'm now 26. I never lost much hair after I started finasteride, but I never regained the density and the hair on my sides and back. 3 years ago, finasteride wasn't working much at all and I began panicking. I tried dermaneedling etc but it just wasn't effective.

Then by a lucky coincidence, I had covid a few months back and I started taking an immune boosting medication. After a month, I noticed a lot of the hair on my sides, back and the overall density increasing. This was something that never happened before.

I then started reading and reading and I have everything saved on my computer, turns out many studies show taking specific immune boosting medications reverses this type of hairloss.

Now I only took it for a month and ran out of it. I ordered it again but it takes time to arrive from Europe to North America.

Now I'm testing another similar compound that is supposedly stronger than the one I took, and if that doesn't pan out, I'll go back to using the original one I tried.

The medication is called inosine pranobex. You can find a lot of studies on it being quite effective for our type of hairloss.

I took it at 3g/day

It's pretty safe as well

 

[Gunnersup]

I've had thick hair for most of my life, until I took accutane for acne. Accutane triggers this gene, and then my dupa hairloss began. I started taking finasteride at 19 and I'm now 26. I never lost much hair after I started finasteride, but I never regained the density and the hair on my sides and back. 3 years ago, finasteride wasn't working much at all and I began panicking. I tried dermaneedling etc but it just wasn't effective.

Then by a lucky coincidence, I had covid a few months back and I started taking an immune boosting medication. After a month, I noticed a lot of the hair on my sides, back and the overall density increasing. This was something that never happened before.

I then started reading and reading and I have everything saved on my computer, turns out many studies show taking specific immune boosting medications reverses this type of hairloss.

Now I only took it for a month and ran out of it. I ordered it again but it takes time to arrive from Europe to North America.

Now I'm testing another similar compound that is supposedly stronger than the one I took, and if that doesn't pan out, I'll go back to using the original one I tried.

The medication is called inosine pranobex. You can find a lot of studies on it being quite effective for our type of hairloss.

I took it at 3g/day

It's pretty safe as well

Are you still shedding? Accutane also started my DUPA

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

I had regular MBP until my 30s ( did accutane at 17 ). At 30s started crazy aggresive diffusse thinning on top of mbp, never attributed my hairloss to accutane. Had insane itching on scalp all my life. Also my worst hairloss was on a stressfull period of my life. I am also starting to have thinning on my sides. Can it really have such a delayed effect?

Also, im using tretinoin (retinoic acid) on my skin for aging , wondering if safe. minoxidil/needling works pretty good for me I guess because the wnt is elevated.

Also @kaneki im confused, if its autoimmune hairloss should we supress or boost immune system?

Alopecia Areata is also autoimmune and there are working treatments for it... We should unite and experiment.

Topical Corticosteroids and cetrizine are good vs Areata.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Ok I was thinking all of this again and wondered... If this theory was true, women would become bald after accutane since this is a non-gender systemic modification, and we know this doesnt happen at all.

Maybe all it means is that IF you have AA it could worsen the situation because DHT has an easier job, but if you reduce DHT problem solved I guess? Standard mbp medication works pretty good on me.

I might try cetrizine (safe) or ocasional topical steroid (horrible for skin longterm).

About the inhibitor... Well... Retinoic acid is pretty good for skin and aging, also what if it brings back the acne once you inhibit it ??

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Are you still shedding? Accutane also started my DUPA

Bro, you are taking tofacitinib which is a JAK inhibitor, which is supposed to be the most promising upcoming treatment for autoimmune related hairloss (areata, alopecia universialis etc)

Did it work for you?

 

[Gunnersup]

Bro, you are taking tofacitinib which is a JAK inhibitor, which is supposed to be the most promising upcoming treatment for autoimmune related hairloss (areata, alopecia universialis etc)

Did it work for you?

I'm also on Otezla. Two of the strongest drugs, and they were hell to source. They are working. The itch is gone but the shed is still present. I've been on both for a few months so I still have to wait. Also I'm on oral minoxidil which I think has been the biggest help thus far.

 

[kaneki]

I had regular MBP until my 30s ( did accutane at 17 ). At 30s started crazy aggresive diffusse thinning on top of mbp, never attributed my hairloss to accutane. Had insane itching on scalp all my life. Also my worst hairloss was on a stressfull period of my life. I am also starting to have thinning on my sides. Can it really have such a delayed effect?

Also, im using tretinoin (retinoic acid) on my skin for aging , wondering if safe. minoxidil/needling works pretty good for me I guess because the wnt is elevated.

Also @kaneki im confused, if its autoimmune hairloss should we supress or boost immune system?

Alopecia Areata is also autoimmune and there are working treatments for it... We should unite and experiment.

Topical Corticosteroids and cetrizine are good vs Areata.

I don't know, all I know is it's helping me better than anything I've taken before and the studies all point towards it being effective.

Are you still shedding? Accutane also started my DUPA

Not really no. I also looked at the JAK inhibitors you're taking, they list cancer as a side effect. You need to stop taking these and try inosine pranobex first.

 

[Armando Jose]

Also @kaneki im confused, if its autoimmune hairloss should we supress or boost immune system?

Alopecia Areata is also autoimmune and there are working treatments for it... We should unite and experiment.

Topical Corticosteroids and cetrizine are good vs

Aopecia areata remits over time without the need for treatment, many times just by reducing stress and worries

I had regular MBP until my 30s ( did accutane at 17 ). At 30s started crazy aggresive diffusse thinning on top of mbp, never attributed my hairloss to accutane. Had insane itching on scalp all my life.

Insane itching on scalp, ....., I'll bet that you suffer it even with accutane,
I have seen that in many cases of dermatitis and itching anti seborrheic products are recommended and what they do is aggravate the itching

Ok I was thinking all of this again and wondered... If this theory was true, women would become bald after accutane since this is a non-gender systemic modification, and we know this doesnt happen at all.

There are many cases with hair problems in women

tofacitinib which is a JAK inhibitor, which is supposed to be the most promising upcoming treatment for autoimmune related hairloss (areata, alopecia universialis etc)

Alopecia areata remits with time on its own, let's think of an areata due to traumatic or personal stress, when the problem is eliminated, the hair recovers naturally, and it is always achieved because the human being could not live forever with those big concerns. I don't know if I have explained myself well.

AK inhibitors you're taking, they list cancer as a side effect. You need to stop taking

+1

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

So basically our only choice is to take an aldh1A1 inhibitor that is used to treat cancer, or an antiviral drug for covid ?

Guess im sticking to lowering scalp DHT and going on the wnt angle even harder (which was the conclusion of the op study)

 

[Paulie777]

I've just stumbled across this thread, and I'm fascinated. I had a full, thick, dense head of hair until I was about 29. I took accutane, then I noticed visible thinning. It got a little better when I stopped accutane, but the thinning has continued gradually since then. I'm now almost 40. Lots of thinning on top. Bodyhair is much more diffuse than it was. Same with facial hair.

So, it looks to me like it would be a good idea to:

-Test VitaminA metabolism / signalling
-Test RA Receptors
-Test atRa levels
-Test trans retinoic acid levels (in tissues)
-Test for lymphocyte inflammation

If, for argument's sake, that accutane has caused the problems that were described in earlier posts, what can we do to fight it / reverse it / minimise the damage?

-Find a way to regulate our retinoic acid?

What else?

I'm going to try and contact the authors of the study, to see if they can offer any advice.

 

[Selb]

I've had thick hair for most of my life, until I took accutane for acne. Accutane triggers this gene, and then my dupa hairloss began. I started taking finasteride at 19 and I'm now 26. I never lost much hair after I started finasteride, but I never regained the density and the hair on my sides and back. 3 years ago, finasteride wasn't working much at all and I began panicking. I tried dermaneedling etc but it just wasn't effective.

Then by a lucky coincidence, I had covid a few months back and I started taking an immune boosting medication. After a month, I noticed a lot of the hair on my sides, back and the overall density increasing. This was something that never happened before.

I then started reading and reading and I have everything saved on my computer, turns out many studies show taking specific immune boosting medications reverses this type of hairloss.

Now I only took it for a month and ran out of it. I ordered it again but it takes time to arrive from Europe to North America.

Now I'm testing another similar compound that is supposedly stronger than the one I took, and if that doesn't pan out, I'll go back to using the original one I tried.

The medication is called inosine pranobex. You can find a lot of studies on it being quite effective for our type of hairloss.

I took it at 3g/day

It's pretty safe as well

This is pretty big because accutane induced hair loss as far as I know hasn’t been reversed. Maybe stopped but hair usually doesn’t grow back. The fact that you can grow it back by messing with your immune system just shows that it’s all an immune system related problem. I’ll look into trying inosine pranobex.
Have you lost ground since stopping inosine?