Who here takes dutasteride every other day?

[CCS]

I just got an email from a NW1 - NW1.5 who is in his mid 20's and was considering buying avodart. I told him he might not need it, since his hair loss does not seem to be that aggressive. I recommend dutasteride for people who need to regrow some hair, and for whom people on this sight who saw the hair wet are not debating about whether it is thin or just wet.

Eveyone should pare the hiar above their ear, since it is in the thick zone and still visible in the mirror. see how much scalp you can see on either side of the part. then do the same on top of your head. If they look the same, that just means you have thin hair, not male pattern baldness, unless you remember it being thicker. If the hair on top looks thinner when you part it and give both comparable light, then that is when you consider dutasteride.

generic proscar cut into forths is cheap. but genuine avodart once per week is also cheap.

the reason i don't want everyone on dutasteride is not because I doubt it's safety, but because it has a long enough half life that you can't just get off it fast when you having unprotected sex and thinking of having a kid. I don't know if the kid protection plan is overkill or not. but with finasteride you can just get off it in 2 days and be fine. bryan would say 3, and some conservative doctors would say a week.

 

[balu123]

Is it dangerous if you have unproteced sex with your partner?
Not because of she could become pregnant... just dangerous for her because I take dutas?

 

[CCS]

women could greatly benifit from finasteride for the hair on their faces. same with dutasteride. the reason doctors won't let them take it is they could become pregnant with a male fetus. that is the only reason.

i don't know if dutasteride in semen can even do any damage. It is hard to know since doctors are such liers. for example: before you can donate blood, you have to stop taking finateride for 30 days, according to doctors and rules. the fact is it is almost all of it is gone after 2-3 days, and any amount left would not affect fetal DHT by more than half a percent.

and donating blood is only a problem if it is given to a person who is currently pregnant. that person will metabolise the remaining finasteride even further, minimizing exposure.

the amount in your sperm is only a tiny faction of the amount in your body.

but I don't know about the dutasteride. ask bryan what he thinks. the stuff spread out evenly throughout your body. it does not just accumulate in the prostate.

 

[bubka]

I just got an email from a NW1 - NW1.5 who is in his mid 20's and was considering buying avodart. I told him he might not need it, since his hair loss does not seem to be that aggressive. I recommend dutasteride for people who need to regrow some hair, and for whom people on this sight who saw the hair wet are not debating about whether it is thin or just wet.

see, i don't know where you get support by implying that avodart is better for more "aggressive" hairloss?

as for blood, it's for safety reasons... do you know the level of finasteride that has to be in the blood to effect inuntero male fetus? If dust from a broken pill can cause defects, i would imagine, even with it's short half-life, that extremely small amount of finasteride takes a while to totally leave one's body

i do not know how you can cause that a reason to label medical doctors as "liars"

 

[CCS]

"liars" was definitely was too strong a word to use. i must appologize for that. Let me change that and just say "very overly cautious." and i've read places that the pill figure is being reconsidered by the experts, at least for finasteride.

 

[CCS]

http://www.mongabay.com/health/medicati ... eride.html

Pregnancy: Pregnancy Category X. Duagen is contraindicated for use in women. Duagen has not been studied in women because preclinical data suggest that the suppression of circulating levels of dihydrotestosterone may inhibit the development of the external genital organs in a male fetus carried by a woman exposed to dutasteride.


In an intravenous embryo-fetal development study in the rhesus monkey (12/group), administration of dutasteride at 400, 780, 1325, or 2010 mg/day on gestation days 20 to 100 did not adversely affect development of male external genitalia. Reduction of fetal adrenal weights, reduction in fetal prostate weights, and increases in fetal ovarian and testis weights were observed in monkeys treated with the highest dose. Based on the highest measured semen concentration of dutasteride in treated men (14 ng/mL these doses represent 0.8 to 16 times (based on blood levels of parent drug) the potential maximum exposure of a 50-kg human female to 5 mL semen daily from a dutasteride-treated man, assuming 100% absorption. Duiasteride is highly boui.d to proteins in human semen (>96%), potentially reducing the amount of dutasteride available for vaginal absorption.


In an embryo-fetal development study in female rats, oral administration of dutasteride at doses of 0.05, 2.5, 12.5, and 30 mg/kg/day resulted in feminization of male fetuses (decreased anogenital distance) and male offspring (nipple development, hypospadias, and distended preputial glands) at all doses (0.07- to 111-fold the expected male clinical exposure). An increase in stillborn pups was observed at 30 mg/kg/day, and reduced fetal body weight was observed at doses >2.5 mg/kg/day (15- to 111-fold the expected clinical exposure). Increased incidences of skeletal variations considered to be delays in ossification associated with reduced body weight were observed at doses of 12.5 and 30 mg/kg/day (56- to 111-fold the expected clinical exposure).


In an oral pre- and post natal development study in rats, dutasteride doses of 0.05, 2.5, 12.5, or 30 mg/kg/day were administered. Unequivocal evidence of feminization of the genitalia (i.e., decreased anogenital distance, increased incidence of hypospadias, nipple development) of Fl generation male offspring occurred at doses >2.5 mg/kg/day (14- to 90-fold the expected clinical exposure in men). At a daily dose of 0.05 mg/kg/day (0.05-fold the expected clinical exposure), evidence of feminization was limited to a small, but statistically significant, decrease in anogenital distance. Doses of 2.5 to 30 mg/kg/day resulted in prolonged gestation in the parental females and a decrease in time to vaginal patency for female offspring and decrease prostate and seminal vesicle weights in male offspring. Effects on newborn startle response were noted at doses greater than or equal to 12.5 mg/kg/day. Increased stillbirths were noted at 30 mg/kg/day.


Feminization of male fetuses is an expected physiological consequence of inhibition of the conversion of testosterone to DHT by 5α-reductase inhibitors. These results are similar to observations in male infants with genetic 5α-reductase deficiency.


In the rabbit, embryo-fetal study doses of 30, 100, and 200 mg/kg (28- to 93-fold the expected clinical exposure in men) were administered orally on days 7 to 29 of pregnancy to encompass the late period of external genitalia development, Histological evaluation of the genital papilla of fetuses revealed evidence of feminization of the male fetus at all doses. A second embryo-fetal study in rabbits at doses of 0.05, 0.4, 3.0, and 30 mg/kg/day (0.3- to 53-fold the expected clinical exposure) also produced evidence of feminization of the genitalia in male fetuses at all doses. It is not known whether rabbits or rhesus monkeys produce any of the major human metabolites.

 

[Bryan]

do you know the level of finasteride that has to be in the blood to effect inuntero male fetus? If dust from a broken pill can cause defects, i would imagine, even with it's short half-life, that extremely small amount of finasteride takes a while to totally leave one's body

Dust from a broken pill can't cause defects. All this silliness is considerable over-kill.

Bryan

 

[Guest]

see, i don't know where you get support by implying that avodart is better for more "aggressive" hairloss?

as for blood, it's for safety reasons... do you know the level of finasteride that has to be in the blood to effect inuntero male fetus? If dust from a broken pill can cause defects, i would imagine, even with it's short half-life, that extremely small amount of finasteride takes a while to totally leave one's body

i do not know how you can cause that a reason to label medical doctors as "liars"

http://www.pharmcom.com/propecia_indications.html

"The in utero effects of finasteride exposure during the period of embryonic and fetal development were evaluated in the rhesus monkey (gestation days 20-100), a species more predictive of human development than rats or rabbits. Intravenous administration of finasteride to pregnant monkeys at doses as high as 800 ng/day (at least 750 times the highest estimated exposure of pregnant women to finasteride from semen of men taking 1 mg/day) resulted in no abnormalities in male fetuses. In confirmation of the relevance of the rhesus model for human fetal development, oral administration of a very high dose of finasteride (2 mg/kg/day; 100 times the recommended human dose of 1 mg/day or approximately 12 million times the highest estimated exposure to finasteride from semen of men taking 1 mg/day) to pregnant monkeys resulted in external genital abnormalities in male fetuses. No other abnormalities were observed in male fetuses and no finasteride-related abnormalities were observed in female fetuses at any dose."

Now I'm no scientist, but it sounds to me like a tiny bit of propecia in the bloodstream isn't going to harm a male fetus.

 

[CCS]

bubka, have you seen the FDA phase II trial results for dustasteride? the stuff can regrow almost twice as much hair as propecia at 2.5mg/day.

at 0.5mg/day, it regrows about 50% more than propecia and about 30% more than proscar.

there are people here who loose hair even with propecia. they make up over 17% of the male pattern baldness population. surely dutasteride would give them better results. finasteride 1.25mg has all but stopped my hair loss, but not regrown any, and I'm going to take dutas to regrow my hair. you don't look like you need dutasteride.

 

[CCS]

thanks JayMan

I thought I also posted a dutasteride clip on here that showed that only the very highest doses had any small affect on the monkeys.

also, at such a low dose, the half life of the drug is very short, and the mother's liver will get rid of it fast. so the low dose in semen will be gone very soon. my point is, unless you are taking well over 2.5mg/day, you don't need to cut back on your dose just to have kids. the doctors are extremely over cautious. i know that is redundant, but it is true.

 

[chromedomefear]

College (and other posters that know what they are talking about),

You state that 2.5mg/day grows almost twice as much as propecia, and .5mg/day about 50%. What are the different dosages available? More specifically, how are Avodart scripts written? 90 or 30 pills at 2.5mg? And you cut that up into .5mg portions (like you would with proscar)? Or are scripts also written for 30 pills at .5mg? I need to know what to ask my Doctor for, because he knows less than I do about dutasteride/Avodart.

And as far as what answers I am looking for.....the past few posts have provided some (except the pregnancy/embryo talk), but I guess I'm really just looking to gather info enough to make a founded decision on how much dutasteride I should take. Being able to regrow twice as much hair with 2.5 mg/day of dutasteride compared to propecia sounds phenomenally more desirable than growing 50% more with .5mg/day of dutasteride. So then why would I NOT use 2.5mg/day? I haven't read on here of anyone becoming retarded from it. Although Jacky81's posts do seem a little off the cracker....just joking... a little.
But seriously, this is the type of unspeculated info I'm looking for, so I can go to my Doctor and come out of his office with the right script in my hand, and know it, or at least be somewhat confident about it. I did so many things over the past few years to try and help my scalp, only to learn afterward that I shouldn't have done what I did, or was doing it the wrong way.

If we got in an airplane together, I could tell you that if you pulled up 3 degrees...you'd get into the air...and you would. You might hit a tree or two on the way up though, and possibly survive. I could tell you to pull up 30 degrees...and you'd get into the air, and eventually stall, spin, crash, and die. But 14 degrees would give you the optimal speed and performance for the safest, fastest, and most efficient flight.

I can't understand chemistry graphs, or serum percentages too well, but I'd like to understand dutasteride enough to make a decision on how I'm going to use it to get the best results. The safest, fastest, and most efficient results.....not necessarily the most conservative, but yet without hitting a proverbial/metaphorical tree or stalling.

CDF

 

[Bryan]

College (and other posters that know what they are talking about),

You state that 2.5mg/day grows almost twice as much as propecia, and .5mg/day about 50%. What are the different dosages available?

There's only ONE dose available, and that's 0.5 mg. To get 2.5 mg, you'd have to take 5 Avodart capsules at a time.

Being able to regrow twice as much hair with 2.5 mg/day of dutasteride compared to propecia sounds phenomenally more desirable than growing 50% more with .5mg/day of dutasteride.

Don't get too excited by that little factoid. Even Rogaine has greater reported haircount increases than 2.5 mg/day of dutasteride.

So then why would I NOT use 2.5mg/day?

The risk of side-effects is obviously much greater at 2.5 mg/day. You'd really be venturing into The Great Unknown if you were to take that much for an extended period of time. That high a dose will SERIOUSLY inhibit the version of 5a-reductase that's found in your brain. Doing that may have unforeseen consequences. If you do it, you're on your own.

Bryan

 

[chromedomefear]

...like sunlight from the heavens....the hairloss god has spoken.

Seriously, thanks for that info. The 2.5mg/day figure was getting tossed around like it was actually being taken by many.

Is there a shelf-life for Avodart? If I get a script for 90 and take it 3x/week...that's stretching that one bottle/package across over 7 months. Is it any less potent over time? Should I keep it in the fridge or something?

 

[Felk]

...like sunlight from the heavens....the hairloss god has spoken.

:lol:

 

[CCS]

it won't expire for at least 2 years. maybe 5, though i'd have to look at the label again.

unlike finasteride, dutasteride is in gelatin capsules in a liquid. you can't chop it up, but you can squirt it, not that you may want to.

2.5mg/day is not only risky, but very expensive. well, at least for most people. you are talking $450 to $500 per month.

volunteers in the phaseII trials did tolerate 2.5mg/day to finish the study, though I have not read what the side effects were. i think i read one or two people considering it, but most people only take 1 per day. cost keeps some people to less than that.

if cost is not an issue for you, you should look into RU. it is under the new research or the experimental section. dutasteride is better than propecia, and probably can maintain the hair of most propecia non-responders. but it is no wonder drug.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Is there a shelf-life for Avodart? If I get a script for 90 and take it 3x/week...that's stretching that one bottle/package across over 7 months. Is it any less potent over time? Should I keep it in the fridge or something?

It has a 4-year shelf-life and so presumably retains its potency over the whole of that period if stored correctly. My most recent Avodart packaging states only that they should be kept under 30C; whereas a pot from 3-odd years back gives a range of 15-30C, with an ideal temp. of 25C.

Slarti

 

[chromedomefear]

whereas a pot from 3-odd years back gives a range of 15-30C, with an ideal temp. of 25C.

....huh? pot? somehow I'm confused, I guess. I didn't know that pot and dutasteride had similar chemical traits...but now I'm going to order some dutasteride RIGHT AWAY!!

 

[Slartibartfast]

Just an empty Avodart pot I've never chucked, don't think pot comes with storage advice - I guess discreetly would suffice if it did.

 

[Mer]

So, is .5mg dutasteride twice a week more effective than 1.25mg finasteride each day?

Just want to make sure I'm understanding this.

Thanks

 

[Aplunk1]

So, is .5mg dutasteride twice a week more effective than 1.25mg finasteride each day?

Yes, .5 mg of dutasteride twice a week is comparable to taking more than 5mg of finasteride daily.