Why is propecia not OTC?

[Guest]

A libertarian is a conservative who wants to be able to smoke pot legally. And also get more drugs OTC, in your case.

lol, I hope that was a joke as it came off funny. That certainly is NOT a libertarian. Did you know that the disparity from a TRUE liberal and a TRUE conservative are very far and few between? Modern day Republican Fasco-socialist neocons along with modern day democratic socialist progressives liberals have hijacked these terms to describe something completely unlike what they mean.

And you are the one who wants to trample on the rights of women by telling them what they can and can't do with their own bodies. The fetus has very few legal rights. You and your bud should stop using the term murder when murder is a LEGAL term and abortion is legal.

Once again, liberty gives you the right to do whatever you want, as long as you don't hurt somebody else. In this case it's quite simple, nobody hast he right to hurt the life inside the mother's own body. Murder is when somebody takes the LIFE of another. Abortion is a legal term, it IS murder.

So what are the police for? Why is it illegal to commit suicide? Why is there a justice system at all? Why do you pay taxes? Why are there road laws?

The police exist to protect our rights. I can't tell you why it is illegal to commit suicide, but I can tell you why it's wrong (hint: liberty). There is a justice system because that is one of the basic functions of any government. Same with road laws.

Here's some questions for you. Do you believe the FEDERAL government has the right to confiscate the fruits of our own labor to GIVE to somebody out in Omaha Nebraska to be able to watch 24, and somebody in New York City so that they can watch the Yankees, and also that family living in TX who likes to watch Joel Osteen? Does the FEDERAL government have a right to again confiscate more of your earnings to redistribute towards a failing railroad company that ranks LAST out of 43 companies in SAFETY? Do you believe that the government has the right to TAKE from you what you've attained with your own two hands, or when you make a good decision and have made a good investment, how about when you want to give away that money to somebody, or to take even more when you die?

Here's the kicker, do you believe the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land and that the government should FOLLOW it or be removed from office if they break this law?

 

[bubka]

that goodness these people only make up like a very small percentage of the population, freaking wackos, i guess societies create laws and regulations for a reason you know???

 

[Guest]

that goodness these people only make up like a very small percentage of the population, freaking wackos, i guess societies create laws and regulations for a reason you know???

that goodness! That goodness alright!

Who are "these" people you are talking about? That's right, thank goodness we have people like bubba here voting for what we have now.

Hey I have a fun little challenge for you, head over to the off-topic discussion forum and look for it. Nothing combative or controversial, but like I said, FUN!

I would like to note that although this topic has somewhat strayed OT, that I'm glad the mods and owners here exhibit limited moderation and let people talk! On some other sites about a dozen people would've been banned and this thread would've deleted based on the topic of the post itself. Kudos to limited moderation!

 

[Guest]

lol, I hope that was a joke as it came off funny. That certainly is NOT a libertarian. Did you know that the disparity from a TRUE liberal and a TRUE conservative are very far and few between? Modern day Republican Fasco-socialist neocons along with modern day democratic socialist progressives liberals have hijacked these terms to describe something completely unlike what they mean.

This is just bullshit that libertarians believe so that they justify wasting their vote.

Once again, liberty gives you the right to do whatever you want, as long as you don't hurt somebody else. In this case it's quite simple, nobody hast he right to hurt the life inside the mother's own body. Murder is when somebody takes the LIFE of another. Abortion is a legal term, it IS murder.

Please look up the word MURDER in the dictionary.

No, I'll do it for you:

the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

See that word UNLAWFULLY? Abortion is LEGAL, therefore it's not UNLAWFUL. So you show your ignorance by calling it murder.

I can't tell you why it is illegal to commit suicide, but I can tell you why it's wrong (hint: liberty).

Well suicide harms no one else but the suicide victim, right? Unless you're talking about emotionally harming family members. But then you could make the same argument for keeping drugs illegal because family members often emotionally suffer at the hands of drug addicted relatives.

Here's some questions for you. Do you believe the FEDERAL government has the right to confiscate the fruits of our own labor to GIVE to somebody out in Omaha Nebraska to be able to watch 24, and somebody in New York City so that they can watch the Yankees, and also that family living in TX who likes to watch Joel Osteen?

Yes. I'm not saying that these things are good ideas, but they do have the right to do so. The Congress passed the 16th amendment and they have the power to tax. The Supreme Court ruled during the New Deal era that Congress has immense power with the interstate commerce and other clauses.

Does the FEDERAL government have a right to again confiscate more of your earnings to redistribute towards a failing railroad company that ranks LAST out of 43 companies in SAFETY?

Again, yes they do. You can argue about whether or not it is a good idea to continue to fund Amtrak, but this is why libertarians are thought of as stupid. Instead of telling people why funding Amtrak is a bad idea, they argue that it is illegal for the government to do what its doing, which is not true.

Do you believe that the government has the right to TAKE from you what you've attained with your own two hands,

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Sixteenth amendment. Read it sometime.

or when you make a good decision and have made a good investment, how about when you want to give away that money to somebody, or to take even more when you die?

Yes.

Here's the kicker, do you believe the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land and that the government should FOLLOW it or be removed from office if they break this law?

Yes, and Congress is not violating the Constitution at all. You can pull some crap out of your *** about the 9th and 10th amendment like most libertarians if you want, but the fact remains that the Supreme Court has ruled on the power of Congress and Congress has passed a few amendments increasing its power.

 

[Guest]

That was really too easy, bubka. :roll:

 

[Guest]

This is just bullshit that libertarians believe so that they justify wasting their vote.

What is this supposed to mean? Wasting their vote on who? Oh you mean Republicans who waste their vote on a candidate simply because his party is Republican and the same for Democrats? Where has the Democrats and Republicans got us to other than MUCH bigger government away from the Constitution?

Please look up the word MURDER in the dictionary.

No, I'll do it for you:

the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

See that word UNLAWFULLY? Abortion is LEGAL, therefore it's not UNLAWFUL. So you show your ignorance by calling it murder.

woop! Guess you and your buddy merriam got me there. Murder predicates itself on man-made LAW rather than the fact that life is a natural right that nobody has the ability to take. If you want to use another straw man and misconstrue that with self defense you don't have to, due to the fact that someone else relinquishes their rights when they attempt to agress mine. Again, THAT there is the duty of government, no more. Anarchists would not even state this, they believe the private sector can perform their own law enforcement and courts. So please stop throwing around terms you guys know nothing about. The meaning of anarchy is not complete and utter choas. Just like how China is not even communism, but again, we have the midget and close-minded factor here.

Well suicide harms no one else but the suicide victim, right? Unless you're talking about emotionally harming family members. But then you could make the same argument for keeping drugs illegal because family members often emotionally suffer at the hands of drug addicted relatives.

Who gives that individual the right to life? You do not have the right to take your own life.

[quote:37809]
Here's some questions for you. Do you believe the FEDERAL government has the right to confiscate the fruits of our own labor to GIVE to somebody out in Omaha Nebraska to be able to watch 24, and somebody in New York City so that they can watch the Yankees, and also that family living in TX who likes to watch Joel Osteen?

Yes. I'm not saying that these things are good ideas, but they do have the right to do so. The Congress passed the 16th amendment and they have the power to tax. The Supreme Court ruled during the New Deal era that Congress has immense power with the interstate commerce and other clauses.[/quote:37809]

Sorry, you're wrong again. Just because something becomes "law" does that make it a legal law, or a just law? First of all, Congress does not "pass" an amendment. Then SoS Knox illegally certified the 16th amendment as ratified even though there were at LEAST 7 states that DID NOT legally ratify this amendment. Even if it was, the idea of an income tax is a DIRECT tax that completely goes against the principles established by our Founding Fathers to protect our rights to life, liberty, and property. It is the responsibility of the people to petition the government for redress of grievances and eliminate this communist protocol. The Supreme court will obviously not take up this issue and at this point in time its neither here nor there, that's why I support the FairTax plan as a tax reformer, rather than a tax protestor.

Supreme Court did not expand the power of the federal government via the "commerce clause" during the New Deal (of Socialism) but in Gibbons vs. Ogden by the Federalist chief justice John Marshall. SURE, the Supreme Court wimps gave in to FDR after he threatened them with the court packing scheme, but Marshall set the stage for expansion of federal government via the "commerce clause".

[quote:37809] Does the FEDERAL government have a right to again confiscate more of your earnings to redistribute towards a failing railroad company that ranks LAST out of 43 companies in SAFETY?

Again, yes they do. You can argue about whether or not it is a good idea to continue to fund Amtrak, but this is why libertarians are thought of as stupid. Instead of telling people why funding Amtrak is a bad idea, they argue that it is illegal for the government to do what its doing, which is not true.[/quote:37809]

Who is talking about Amtrak? I'm talking about the $2.3 Billion bailout that I'm loaning to DM&E railroad. Where are libertarians talking about privatizing amtrak? I don't think you can call these libertarians, you can calls these "common sense" individuals. Amtrak is another failure, it is a MUCH more costly form of transporation, and the federal government has no business being in this. Privatize Amtrak.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Sixteenth amendment. Read it sometime.

I never asked you if an illegal ratification of an amendment MADE the taxation of Income (which is also not defined as wages in any federal law) "legal". I asked you if government has the right to take from you the fruits of your labor. You did not answer.

[quote:37809] or when you make a good decision and have made a good investment, how about when you want to give away that money to somebody, or to take even more when you die?

Yes.[/quote:37809]

Ah, so you are a socialist? You give government the right to directly tax you as they wish? As you would know this is a key point to socialism, it's written in the Communist Manifesto itself. Do you prefer this document or the Founders Document(s).

[quote:37809]Here's the kicker, do you believe the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land and that the government should FOLLOW it or be removed from office if they break this law?

Yes, and Congress is not violating the Constitution at all. You can pull some crap out of your *** about the 9th and 10th amendment like most libertarians if you want, but the fact remains that the Supreme Court has ruled on the power of Congress and Congress has passed a few amendments increasing its power.[/quote:37809][/quote]

Congress is not violating the Constitution at all?! Why don't you actually READ it and pay particular attention to Article I Section 8 which ENUMERATES the duties of the federal government, and then again re-read Amendments 9 and 10 of the Bill of Rights.

The Constitution did NOT give the Supreme Court the right to legally change the intentions of this governing document. You are probably AGAINST the war in Iraq right? You are probably against many things that Bush does right? You can apply those same arguments you use to yourself. Instead I will put my stock into our source documents and the Supreme Law of the Land.

Of which, I do not see anywhere in Article I Section 8 of the Constitution that says that government shall require a prescription for finasteride :wink:

That was just to easy TJ, :wink: :roll:

 

[bubka]

i love these people, they live in a country, built on the back, on the backs, on the backs of lawful taxpayers, the quality of their living, the value of their home, schools, roads, is all because of taxes, yet they fell is if they don't have to pay, the are excluded, they should just do as they feel, and everything will magically be great and perfect, in a land of cotton candy clouds, lollipop trees, and sugar coated tootsie roll lanes....

go start your own country please

 

[Guest]

i love these people, they live in a country, built on the back, on the backs, on the backs of lawful taxpayers, the quality of their living, the value of their home, schools, roads, is all because of taxes, yet they fell is if they don't have to pay, the are excluded, they should just do as they feel, and everything will magically be great and perfect, in a land of cotton candy clouds, lollipop trees, and sugar coated tootsie roll lanes....

go start your own country please

FYI, it was a minority of individuals who wanted to form our own country. The majority wanted no independance from the crown. By your last post it is quite clear you really don't care what happens in your country because either 1.) It has not yet happened to you, or 2.) You don't think it can ever happen to you. Just wait until your "democracy" displays itself and your property is taken from you, or when your terrorized in the middle of a night from a no-knock raid targetting the wrong house for the purpose of marijuana. Maybe then you will wake up.

Luckily I didn't have to have something happen to me to wake up and think I need the feds to protect me from finasteride.

 

[Guest]

i love these people, they live in a country, built on the back, on the backs, on the backs of lawful taxpayers, the quality of their living, the value of their home, schools, roads, is all because of taxes, yet they fell is if they don't have to pay, the are excluded, they should just do as they feel, and everything will magically be great and perfect, in a land of cotton candy clouds, lollipop trees, and sugar coated tootsie roll lanes....

go start your own country please

FYI, it was a minority of individuals who wanted to form our own country. The majority wanted no independance from the crown. By your last post it is quite clear you really don't care what happens in your country because either 1.) It has not yet happened to you, or 2.) You don't think it can ever happen to you. Just wait until your "democracy" displays itself and your property is taken from you, or when your terrorized in the middle of a night from a no-knock raid targetting the wrong house for the purpose of marijuana. Maybe then you will wake up.

Luckily I didn't have to have something happen to me to wake up and think I need the feds to protect me from finasteride.

What about being blown to pieces inside an abortion clinic because some nutjob anti choicer realized that he wanted to save some fetuses.

 

[bubka]

you know, i have seen some of those black helicopters flying around a good bit, and all black UN soldiers training in the woods for the takeover of the new world order

 

[Guest]

What about being blown to pieces inside an abortion clinic because some nutjob anti choicer realized that he wanted to save some fetuses.

C'mon JayMan. This isn't simply anti-choice but anti-liberty in general. Obviously these nutjob criminals should be punished for committing these acts.

 

[abcdefg]

abortion is murder. I dont see how thats arguable. The only thing thats arguable I guess is should someone be able to kill someone else. I vote no but I guess society majority says yes.

A lot of things aren't worth thinking about. The more you dwell on the completely stupid things the American public thinks and does you just get mad. There is nothing you can do though so just not worrying about it is the best. Its funny how politicians always say the American people are smart enough to ... when thats a complete lie. Ask anyone in the public service sector and they will tell you the truth. The American public are an evolutionary step backwards of our ape like ancestors.

When someone on earth dies I just think good more resources for everyone else.

 

[Guest]

abortion is murder. I dont see how thats arguable. T

It's funny how you call Americans so stupid, when you just called abortion murder. I explained earlier in the thread how abortion cannot be murder because murder is an ILLEGAL killing and abortion is LEGAL. you shouldn't have to make stupid statements like you did above to prove your points.

 

[Guest]

There is nothing you can do though so just not worrying about it is the best. Its funny how politicians always say the American people are smart enough to

I'm glad our Founding Fathers did not think this when the vast majority did not want independance from the Crown. I like the quote from Samuel Adams: "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate tirless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of other men"

I explained earlier in the thread how abortion cannot be murder because murder is an ILLEGAL killing and abortion is LEGAL.

As I rebutted it earlier it does not matter what Merriam tells you. Legislators have LEGALIZED theft as well (via Income/Property taxation....direct taxes), just because they will legalize murder does not make it so. It's also funny how a LOT of these "pro-choice" democrats will always say how they don't support abortion and think it's such a horrible thing. At least the pro-murder libertarians will come out and flatly say they believe it's fine and dandy.

 

[Guest]

As I rebutted it earlier it does not matter what Merriam tells you. Legislators have LEGALIZED theft as well (via Income/Property taxation....direct taxes), just because they will legalize murder does not make it so. It's also funny how a LOT of these "pro-choice" democrats will always say how they don't support abortion and think it's such a horrible thing. At least the pro-murder libertarians will come out and flatly say they believe it's fine and dandy.

Don't patronize me, Mises. Don't patronize me. Don't worry, no one loves liberty as much as you. You are King of Liberty.

But I don't think abortion is a horrible thing. I think abortion should be an option for every pregnant woman and I think that it should be safe, legal, and available. I don't cry when I think about fetuses. There are enough dead American soldiers to care about without spending days crying about fetuses like the Republican congressmen do.

And it does matter what Merriam tells me. You're not a lawyer, you're not a politician, you're just some kid who read Atlas Shrugged and thinks he's a genius. You'll grow out of it.

 

[Guest]

Ah, another shameless resort to ad hominem when you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

A life is a life, and I'm sorry but I don't think you define what one is.

 

[abcdefg]

murder is an illegal killing while abortion is not murder because its legal?

So who in the united states is god? because i thought in almost every religion killing someone was considered murder many thousands of years ago. My memory comes and goes but the religion with most members in world has a commandment that says something about murder. So for most people its a crime in terms of morality whether or not the stupid majority of Americans is right or in this case wrong.
Christianity is the largest religion in the US. According to this religion abortion is wrong so for it to be legal goes against the very essence of democracy "majority rule" so america is a messed up country where politicians basically do what they want I guess.

 

[Guest]

abcdefg,

You're on the right track, but first America is not a democracy. Check the Constitution, we're some form of government but I'll tell you it's certainly NOT a democracy. Our Founders warned us against democracy for good reason as it = mob rule and does not respect individual rights.

As I said, nobody here, myself or Jayman, defines life. Only God defines life. When human being has a soul it is a life, KILL that human being at no matter what age it is, and that is murder. It's pretty simple. Oh and George W. Bush is NOT pro-life either. Many Republicans who like to rely on this are not. I'm no theocrat though, I'd rather we repeal Roe v. Wade and allow states to decide whether or not to outlaw abortions as we'd very likely have 48/50 states making it illegal as it should be. A life in California is no more valuable than one in the Netherlands that gets aborted as well. Since I am not a resident of a state that would likely legalize it's not as great a concern for me.

By the way, finasteride can be made OTC but it's the politics, lobbyists, and $$$$$ that keep stuff like this from being OTC

 

[bubka]

murder is an illegal killing while abortion is not murder because its legal?

So who in the united states is god? because i thought in almost every religion killing someone was considered murder many thousands of years ago. My memory comes and goes but the religion with most members in world has a commandment that says something about murder. So for most people its a crime in terms of morality whether or not the stupid majority of Americans is right or in this case wrong.
Christianity is the largest religion in the US. According to this religion abortion is wrong so for it to be legal goes against the very essence of democracy "majority rule" so america is a messed up country where politicians basically do what they want I guess.

last time a checked too you dumb ***, in the bible, if a women is raped and a virgin, and does not cry out loud enough for someone else to hear, she should be stoned to death... freaking idiot probably thinks that should be the law too

 

[bubka]

By the way, finasteride can be made OTC but it's the politics, lobbyists, and $$$$$ that keep stuff like this from being OTC

its a controlled substance, you have absolutely no proof of any of the statements you just made concerning propecia