Numerous Anecdotal Reports Of Sheds On Low-carb / Fasting Diets

[Afro_Vacancy]

I'm in a low carb + intermittent fasting group on facebook which has a lot of active members, link available upon request by private message. An issue which regularly comes up is that of sudden sheds when starting the diet, Lots of people report spontaneous hair thinning, and then other people report that they indeed had sheds, but their hair grew back even thicker after several months. Some say that their hairlines have improved.

There's a range of people in the community. Most start off with moderate or severe type-II diabetes, and sometimes other illnesses too. There are lots of men and women. They switch from standard american diet (SAD) to low-carb, moderate protein diets involving fewer meals, fewer snacks, and intermittent fasts of 18-hours up to 7 days. Some of the foods emphasized include bone broth, chia seed, avocados, black coffee, cream, butter, pink himalayan salt, bacon, cheese, cauliflower, eggs, olives, coconut oil, peanut butter, nut butters, zucchini, etc with scorn heaped on wheat, rice, and sugar. Basically healthy eating.

This is an article linked by one of the preferred sources there:
https://www.dietdoctor.com/can-low-carb-diets-result-in-hair-loss

We also know on this site that hair loss is associated with low SHBG, insulin resistance, type-II diabetes, and heart disease. Due to the lack of research, there is no understanding of those very strong correlations, but they're there. We also know on this site that good treatments often involve sheds at first.

So overall I don't know what this means, but I thought I'd bring this up for discussion. I realize that it's unlikely to be properly researched soon.

 

[buckthorn]

I'm in a low carb + intermittent fasting group on facebook which has a lot of active members, link available upon request by private message. An issue which regularly comes up is that of sudden sheds when starting the diet, Lots of people report spontaneous hair thinning, and then other people report that they indeed had sheds, but their hair grew back even thicker after several months. Some say that their hairlines have improved.

There's a range of people in the community. Most start off with moderate or severe type-II diabetes, and sometimes other illnesses too. There are lots of men and women. They switch from standard american diet (SAD) to low-carb, moderate protein diets involving fewer meals, fewer snacks, and intermittent fasts of 18-hours up to 7 days. Some of the foods emphasized include bone broth, chia seed, avocados, black coffee, cream, butter, pink himalayan salt, bacon, cheese, cauliflower, eggs, olives, coconut oil, peanut butter, nut butters, zucchini, etc with scorn heaped on wheat, rice, and sugar. Basically healthy eating.

This is an article linked by one of the preferred sources there:
https://www.dietdoctor.com/can-low-carb-diets-result-in-hair-loss

We also know on this site that hair loss is associated with low SHBG, insulin resistance, type-II diabetes, and heart disease. Due to the lack of research, there is no understanding of those very strong correlations, but they're there. We also know on this site that good treatments often involve sheds at first.

So overall I don't know what this means, but I thought I'd bring this up for discussion. I realize that it's unlikely to be properly researched soon.

could it be Telogen Effluvium? @WhitePolarBear - what do you think? Telogen Effluvium?

 

[Min0]

if you want to lower insulin cut also animal proteins, because it riases insulin as much as pure white sugar.

 

[Noisette]

Hi David,

I can give you a study published on April 2017, and talked about "Role of Non Androgenic Factors in Hair loss and Hair Regrowth Review Article". I uploaded the PDF.

In this study you can see some informations about Nutrition correction in hair loss .

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

if you want to lower insulin cut also animal proteins, because it riases insulin as much as pure white sugar.

Correct post, I did not bring it up because I don't want to add confusion. A couple thoughts though, as this is not well understood:

- Protein also raises mTor and glucagon, and glucagon acts opposite to insulin in some respects. It's a complex issue. Further animal protein can be used to build muscle, which will decrease insulin resistance in the long-term.
- What some suggest is to eat fatty meats to reduce this issue. Lean protein will have the worst effects, so go for whole eggs, chicken thighs, real milk, beef brisket, etc.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Informative post @Noisette , I'll need time to digest it, pun intended.

 

[Noisette]

Let me Know what you think about this study. I will share your thought with the author

 

[Min0]

Correct post, I did not bring it up because I don't want to add confusion. A couple thoughts though, as this is not well understood:

- Protein also raises mTor and glucagon, and glucagon acts opposite to insulin in some respects. It's a complex issue. Further animal protein can be used to build muscle, which will decrease insulin resistance in the long-term.
- What some suggest is to eat fatty meats to reduce this issue. Lean protein will have the worst effects, so go for whole eggs, chicken thighs, beef brisket, etc.

man, fatty meat ? isn't intramyocellular lipids the cause of insulin resistance ?

fatty meat has the protein to raise the insulin and the fat that will be stored with it.
if you're eating more calories more than you need, you'll store fat which will not be good for insulin resistance.

 

[broko]

Hey David I would like a link. This is nothing new to me though I've been on other fasting forums like curezone for years. I have done a lot of small fasts, longest water fast was 14 days longest dry fast is 3 days for me. Fasting turns your body into a complete repair and detox mode, its actually pretty amazing what happens. Fasting is the number one medicine to cure illness, but there is no money to be made so you don't hear much about it.

I still believe baldness is from lymph issues, clogged arteries from toxins etc that build up near hair follicules. Happens in males more because DHT has a role in calcification and when there is inflammation that part of the body gets fibrosis/ calcification.

 

[mdmnota]

So, how would you fight calcification/fibrosis?

 

[Grasshüpfer]

Contrary there are also lots of anecdotes around, especially in the model scene about how low carb and cutting diets can cause hairloss.
Possible that this is positive shedding.
Possible also that this is caused by starvation to some degree and not relevant.

I have also read that high fat/ protein diets lead to lower estrogen production, possibly because estrogen is produced in body fat.

But furthermore in the german forum some members speculate that the body is producing dht only to balance estrogens and that a tendency to low testosterone and high estrogen/androstenediol is one possible root culprit for male pattern baldness.

A few month ago I would have disagreed with you David, but now I'm inclined to think you could be very right.


Is there actual evidence for the benefits of fasting?

Also I'm eating kind of erratic when I'm stressed and sometimes plainly forget about eating for a few days. Is that already fasting, or just me incompetent in basic survival?

 

[br1]

Hey David I would like a link. This is nothing new to me though I've been on other fasting forums like curezone for years. I have done a lot of small fasts, longest water fast was 14 days longest dry fast is 3 days for me. Fasting turns your body into a complete repair and detox mode, its actually pretty amazing what happens. Fasting is the number one medicine to cure illness, but there is no money to be made so you don't hear much about it.

I still believe baldness is from lymph issues, clogged arteries from toxins etc that build up near hair follicules. Happens in males more because DHT has a role in calcification and when there is inflammation that part of the body gets fibrosis/ calcification.

Right, and then you still see a lot of garbage living/eating ppl with full-heads, and that super zen, fasting, clean eating (bald) guy, with his son which looks exactly like his copy. And you don't think it's all down to f*****g genetics. Give me a break..

 

[Grasshüpfer]

So, how would you fight calcification/fibrosis?

Dermastamping + minoxidil.

 

[Grasshüpfer]

Right, and then you still see a lot of garbage living/eating ppl with full-heads, and that super zen, fasting, clean eating (bald) guy, with his son which looks exactly like his copy. And you don't think it's all down to f*****g genetics. Give me a break..

Only eating healthy will for sure do nothing.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

man, fatty meat ? isn't intramyocellular lipids the cause of insulin resistance ?

fatty meat has the protein to raise the insulin and the fat that will be stored with it.
if you're eating more calories more than you need, you'll store fat which will not be good for insulin resistance.

That video linked is incorrect on numerous grounds, too many to list here, many of the claims are refuted by more recent studies. People on high-fat diets report better insulin sensitivity in the long-term. More recent studies yield better results from the high-fat Mediterannean and Atkins diet than for the standard recommended diet of bread, fruits, and vegetables. Among other issues the video gives a false explanation for insulin resistance.

Insulin resistance is caused by too much insulin and too much sugar, together. Type-II diabetes is generally reversed by an extended period of low insulin diet (high-fat, low carb, with fewer meals), whereas doctors advocating bread/fruits/vegetables call it a "progressive illness". Fructose also precedes insulin resistance separately, as fatty liver disease is documented to be a great predictor of type-II diabetes.

You can eat your proteins with carbs (spiking insulin even further), with more protein (spiking insulin even further), or with fat (providing energy and not spiking insulin). Don't eat egg whites. Eat eggs.

This source covers some of these issues:
https://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/handle/2123/11945

 

[dunno]

dem hair gains on keto diet. it is known...

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Contrary there are also lots of anecdotes around, especially in the model scene about how low carb and cutting diets can cause hairloss.
Possible that this is positive shedding.
Possible also that this is caused by starvation to some degree and not relevant.

I have also read that high fat/ protein diets lead to lower estrogen production, possibly because estrogen is produced in body fat.

But furthermore in the german forum some members speculate that the body is producing dht only to balance estrogens and that a tendency to low testosterone and high estrogen/androstenediol is one possible root culprit for male pattern baldness.

A few month ago I would have disagreed with you David, but now I'm inclined to think you could be very right.


Is there actual evidence for the benefits of fasting?

Also I'm eating kind of erratic when I'm stressed and sometimes plainly forget about eating for a few days. Is that already fasting, or just me incompetent in basic survival?

The point about the models is interesting.

There are no studies of fasting and hair loss and there probably won't be -- that's way too niche. What we know is that hair loss is correlated with high insulin, type II diabetes, and low SHBG, that the correlation is without explanation, and that all three of those can be rectified with fasting / low carb.

Or did you mean benefits of fasting in other contexts? I made this summary here:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...termittent-fasting.98461/page-11#post-1452058

If you forget to eat for a few days that's basically fasting, unless you sneak in snacks of brownies and ice cream.

 

[broko]

Right, and then you still see a lot of garbage living/eating ppl with full-heads, and that super zen, fasting, clean eating (bald) guy, with his son which looks exactly like his copy. And you don't think it's all down to f*****g genetics. Give me a break..

It seems that you don't understand how genetics work. Genes make people more prone to certain illnesses/ traits, Its and old saying but "genes load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger": Some people are just born immune to certain diseases, cancer , baldness.

You can find hundred year olds that smoke everyday without cancer, doesn't mean smoking doesn't cause cancer if your prone to it.

 

[Min0]

That video linked is incorrect on numerous grounds, too many to list here, many of the claims are refuted by more recent studies. People on high-fat diets report better insulin sensitivity in the long-term. More recent studies yield better results from the high-fat Mediterannean and Atkins diet than for the standard recommended diet of bread, fruits, and vegetables. Among other issues the video gives a false explanation for insulin resistance.

Insulin resistance is caused by too much insulin and too much sugar, together. Type-II diabetes is generally reversed by an extended period of low insulin diet (high-fat, low carb, with fewer meals), whereas doctors advocating bread/fruits/vegetables call it a "progressive illness". Fructose also precedes insulin resistance separately, as fatty liver disease is documented to be a great predictor of type-II diabetes.

You can eat your proteins with carbs (spiking insulin even further), with more protein (spiking insulin even further), or with fat (providing energy and not spiking insulin). Don't eat egg whites. Eat eggs.

This source covers some of these issues:
https://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/handle/2123/11945

type 2 diabetes is fat/BMI related

the vegans has the lowest BMI and the lowest type 2 diabetes.

insulin resistance improved with low fat vegan diet
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677007/

why do you think the chinese have lower diabetes than the USA ? carbs are their staple food, the USA's staple food is animal fat.
walter kempner treated diabetes with rice and pure white sugar. it was well known back then that fat paralyses insulin.

* about those high-fat low carb studies, most of them are backed by the meat/egg/milk giant trillion dollar industries.

* the video is the most logical way to explain it, and it's what science says. do you think that you know better than DR. Neal Barnard the founding president of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine ?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Hi David,

I can give you a study published on April 2017, and talked about "Role of Non Androgenic Factors in Hair loss and Hair Regrowth Review Article". I uploaded the PDF.

In this study you can see some informations about Nutrition correction in hair loss .
View attachment 52143
View attachment 52144View attachment 52143

A relatively convincing review paper suggesting nutritional issues may matter however I have a lot of concerns.

His two photos, and he only has two of them, show improved density but no shift in the position of the hairline.

He defines telogen as being a protective phase, but if that were true we would see hair recover once the enemy is gone ... when hair is gone for a couple years it typically never comes back.

It is interesting that balding men show lower levels of minerals and vitamins in the blood and urine than non-balding men. However that could also be due to androgen receptors shifting the distribution of nutrients, etc. It's an interesting correlation but not sufficient.

Copper may be an important element that is overlooked. I should probably reintroduce maca powder to my diet as it's the best source of copper.