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agree to disagree
Numerous Anecdotal Reports Of Sheds On Low-carb / Fasting Diets
- Thread starter Afro_Vacancy
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I have never been convinced male pattern baldness is a dietary problem. Not every person going bald fits into a chart of a common diet. There are men going bald that eat every diet and food group percent you can imagine.Maybe if your eligible to go bald then it might play some small role in androgen levels, but its not a main factor IMO.
Every man in prison eats the same crap for decades, yet some never go bald. That alone is proof its not diet, but I assume we are talking about the men on here that are susceptible to male pattern baldness.
Every man in prison eats the same crap for decades, yet some never go bald. That alone is proof its not diet, but I assume we are talking about the men on here that are susceptible to male pattern baldness.
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Exactly. There are a ton of world class athletes who are bald, plenty of people who are obese and people who fit into every sub-category in between who lose their hair. There might be dozens of factors that help trigger baldness in men or exacerbate the issue once it begins to progress, I just don't see how nutrition's role could be anything more than negligible. I feel like decades into studying the causality of male pattern baldness, a trend like this would be fairly easy to spot. The whole "homeless men all have great hair!" anecdote is a personal favorite of mine though.
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Two counterarguments:
1) If the prison population was balding either 50% faster or slower than the general population, it's likely that nobody would have noticed by now. You're assuming that science is thorough, but the truth is that baldness research is an intellectual backwater.
2) Nobody here is so delusional as to think diet could modulate male pattern baldness by a factor of 100%, but it might adjust the food. We know that heavy smoking and alcohol consumption both accelerate male pattern baldness, that's proven in the twin study.
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Readers who have followed the discussion beyween @Min0 and myself may be interested in this recent editorial in the British Medical Journal:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2015/05/07/bjsports-2015-094911.full
It is time to bust the myth of physical inactivity and obesity: you cannot outrun a bad diet
Their three main points are:
1) Diet is much more important than exercise for body composition, and the public has no idea due to food industry propaganda. Specifically, exercise is for many people, close to irrelevant for body fat. It's good for a lot of other things though.
2) Dietary sugars are preferentially turned into body fat, and they promote hunger.
3) Marketing is a huge problem, for example how coca cola associates their products with sport.
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2015/05/07/bjsports-2015-094911.full
It is time to bust the myth of physical inactivity and obesity: you cannot outrun a bad diet
Their three main points are:
1) Diet is much more important than exercise for body composition, and the public has no idea due to food industry propaganda. Specifically, exercise is for many people, close to irrelevant for body fat. It's good for a lot of other things though.
2) Dietary sugars are preferentially turned into body fat, and they promote hunger.
3) Marketing is a huge problem, for example how coca cola associates their products with sport.
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I think you guys are talking about nitpicks here.
You only disagree about the amount of whole grains vs very specific fats in a largely legume based diet.
I think we can agree on the legume part of the diet. Both vegans and paleo eaters have the bulk of their diet consist of legumes and vegetables. (Beans, broccoli, zucchini.)
Question is now if you should add grains (vegan) or fats (paleo) to get to you calorie goal.
And I think that comes down to personal composition and activity level.
I am largely an ectomorph and I starve on the paleo diet if I don't add lots of rice.
Then again I want to see the vegan person who reaches his calorie goal without adding tons of plant oils (coconut milk, nuts) which are a cornerstone of paleo.
You only disagree about the amount of whole grains vs very specific fats in a largely legume based diet.
I think we can agree on the legume part of the diet. Both vegans and paleo eaters have the bulk of their diet consist of legumes and vegetables. (Beans, broccoli, zucchini.)
Question is now if you should add grains (vegan) or fats (paleo) to get to you calorie goal.
And I think that comes down to personal composition and activity level.
I am largely an ectomorph and I starve on the paleo diet if I don't add lots of rice.
Then again I want to see the vegan person who reaches his calorie goal without adding tons of plant oils (coconut milk, nuts) which are a cornerstone of paleo.
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If you google 'ketosis hormones' you will find that a ketonic/ paleo diet leads to a significant reduction in steroid hormones across the board.
It lowers estrogen in low bmi woman, leading to cycle problems and temporary infertility. But it also lowers testosterone levels in men.
This can be either good or bad, depending on your hormone levels.
If your testosterone levels are low, but the body is balancing itself by producing more dht, ketosis will worsen your problem.
But if your testosterone levels are low, because your body fat is producing estrogen, inhibiting your ligands, ketosis is absolutely necessary.
So there is a definite effect of ketosis on hormone levels, possibly altering how well we respond to finasteride. Problem is it's highly individual.
It lowers estrogen in low bmi woman, leading to cycle problems and temporary infertility. But it also lowers testosterone levels in men.
This can be either good or bad, depending on your hormone levels.
If your testosterone levels are low, but the body is balancing itself by producing more dht, ketosis will worsen your problem.
But if your testosterone levels are low, because your body fat is producing estrogen, inhibiting your ligands, ketosis is absolutely necessary.
So there is a definite effect of ketosis on hormone levels, possibly altering how well we respond to finasteride. Problem is it's highly individual.
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I think I'm going through this right now -- lost 25 lbs between January and March, hairs from front/hairline have been falling like snowflakes since April. Been very upsetting, but had hoped this was telogen and those hairs would return stronger.
Any tips on trying to ensure these hairs come back to life? For what it's worth been on 1.25 finasteride for ten years, and as it has to do with this thread, very low carb intake, eggs every day and emphasis on protein.
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Unfortunately all we have is anecdotes. These anecdotes include people saying that the hairs come back, but this could be placebo, or the people who didn't get their hair back were too ashamed to speak.
Hopefully you're not developing a nutrient deficiency. You are consuming less food and there are nutrients in fruits and veggies. You can have a nutrient rich diet that is high fat but it's not automatic.
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Yes, the conflicting reports - as it always seems to be with hair loss - have me feeling pretty confused.
Fruit & veg has taken a backseat almost entirely in my diet. More recently I committed to a daily regimen of multivitamins, zinc/magnesium/d3, and biotin, but I know these vitamins and nutrients would be better derived from the source.
As we are discussing anecdotal evidence, any other instances of extreme swings in diet/exercise/weight loss and hair loss? Crossing my fingers for positive reports on regrowth after a weight-loss induced shed...
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There were lots of reports in the FB group I'm part of. But anecdotes are not scientific due to the selective reporting, they're suggestive at best. Anecdotes can be used to bring awareness to an issue, and to motivate design of an actual scientific study, but they're not scientific in and of themselves.
As for your diet, it's better to get nutrients from food than from supplements. You can get nutrients without fruits and veggies it's just difficult. You'll need to make sure you're taking in a broad range of foods including several of nuts, dairy products, organ meat, eggs, and fish in my opinion.
Restricting fruits for an extended period is probably fine, but I can't imagine a benefit to restricting vegetables.
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Sure - to be honest, I did not think of the implications of my carb counting and diet when it came to my hair. Hair has been mostly steady in the 10 years since I've been on finasteride. Wanting to lose weight was just about body vanity, not hair vanity. But, now I'm concerned that my oversight of how these changes would effect my scalp has me feeling quite concerned, hair-wise.
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i can confirm that when i lost weight (about 10 kg ) in a short time and went down to 57 kg i lost a lot of hair.
i lost that much weight when i removed all fats from my diet, not even oil. i can remember losing 7 kg in 15 days.
now i'm putting on weight and my hair seem to get denser. my hair when i was underweigh grew very slow, now it's growing faster.
i lost that much weight when i removed all fats from my diet, not even oil. i can remember losing 7 kg in 15 days.
now i'm putting on weight and my hair seem to get denser. my hair when i was underweigh grew very slow, now it's growing faster.
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I've been on a protein sparing modified fast for about a month now which allows me to eat only protein (extra lean meat and egg whites) and 600 calories a day. I've lost 19 pounds but haven't noticed any hair loss so far. I'm on finasteride, though, so that be influencing the outcome. I'll be on the diet for another two months and I'll let you guys know if anything changes.
The twin study does not prove this. After this twin study another study found that identical twins are not genetically identical. They have varying numbers of copies of identical genes. So the validity of that study depends on whether it came out before or after this one below.
I looked up twin study and I think its 2011, but it doesnt mean they took the below into account when coming up with results. Without them saying for sure I just dont know how much stock to put into that twin study. Ill agree in general life style might factor into it to a degree, but I still think its a small one.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/identical-twins-genes-are-not-identical/
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Twins are not completely identical, but they're close enough. The genetic differences are very, very small, and also random, so no they would not create a correlation between smoking and baldness.
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I feel your pain. I honestly don't know... some hair have grown back, but to what full extent I'm not exactly sure. I just know it got wose a lot faster and unfortunately it's how my body reacts to a change in diet and exercise.
I recently was in a bad car accident and was hospitalized for a week then the following 3 months my hair took a bad dive too. Was it stress and anxiety? or was it then a full lack of diet and exercise? All of that when out the window when my leg nearly did! Good luck my fellow sufferer.
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Thanks, pal. If you're a believer in telogen effluvium caused by stress, your accident - especially when paired with drastic diet change and weight loss, sounds like more than enough to push you into it. When did the accident take place? Perhaps your hairs are just taking time in their life cycle.
Are you on finasteride or any other treatment?
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The accident I was in was in late November and I'm now almost fully recovered, still some pain, but now I'm back to 60 hour work weeks lol. Unfortunately I can't take finasteride without getting sides so I'm just on vitamins/ natural oils, herbs &/ DHT blockers ( which probably are not doing anything) and keto & minoxidil. So, not enough really! Just need to hope for the best. Good luck
Interesting, I saw a trichologist because my hair shed alot in January and she said that if the hair falls out due to Telogen Effluvium then it's normally been triggered by something about 3 months before the shedding starts (not sure if this widely accepted or not). In September through to November I was on a cut trying to take off some body fat and eating about 600 calories below what would be considered maintenance