Hair is not Life but it's Pretty Damn Close; HRT and Pictorial Posts Prove it.

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Testosterone and DHT really do have inflammatory properties. The rash on my arm that started at 14 went away with testosterone suppression, and flares up with testosterone surges. Has anyone experienced anything similar. In addition to this, I can feel my scalp burn without adequate T suppression.

In another post my girlfriend recently stated that my skin looks a lot more even in tone since I've gone of my hormonal control protocol. Estrogen is anti-inflammatory, and high levels of testosterone will leave you dry, and dry skin is prone to inflammation much less any inherent properties of androgenic hormones themselves.

Skin hydration also for that reason mitigates inflammation which is also a property of estrogen like hormones.

Back to science, never say never, but I doubt a general baldness cure without HRT

Gene therapy, China is doing some crazy sh*t with genetic modification but good luck with that ever getting into the hands of common westerners for the purpose of improving aesthetics without it costing an arm and a leg for a good many years.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Call Out for Help:

I had someone message me who was using essentially the dream stack for cis-males and his situation just keeps getting worse or to rephrase, he is very close to horse shoe status similarly to @bridgeburn, on top. I keep touting oral minoxidil and he claims no results even after 24 months on oral minoxidil and this is from a person who knows a lot about hormones and hair loss treatments. Does anyone have any insight related to what might reboot hair for this person except for female hormones? When is it appropriate to advise someone to "give up?" Does RU actually work as a med on its own for males as a regrowth agent?

Anyone who has info related to turning the corner on hair loss for XY's, regardless of treatment, please chime in. Having realistic expectations is difficult but at some point, chasing MtF and hair loss treatments by XY's just becomes dispiriting and a bit like Sissyphus (misspelling intended) pushing her rock up the hill again and again. It hurts to see the disappointment when something doesn't work when it seems as though it should.

He needs to get a hormone panel done, if he had hair throughout his teens and 20s, then something has changed.

RU goes systemic, and it caused cardiac issues for me, it's not advisable from my perspective.

General hypotheses that I could throw out there are as follows

- immunological

- bacteriological

- viral (covid 19 can cause serious hair shedding in some reports because it causes inflammation)

- hormonal (as in they do not yet know what hormonal culprit is behind this)


If he even -remotely- suspects he has covid-19 he needs to buy BHT or ButylatedHydroxyToluene, I use it as a prophylaxis because I'm pretty sure I've already had covid once and around the time my symptoms were at their worst, within weeks my hair started shedding worse. I take it whenever I have to go out into the general public for long periods or taking any sort of transit. And if there is even the slightest onset of a cough, I take it.

I am experiencing no persistent symptoms from it now, but have had short periods where I felt like something was coming on and I immediately take BHT and the symptoms resolve in less than a day. BHT is also a proven method to treat Epstein Barr virus, which I've had, it also treats HSV 1 which I have not.

BHT destroys the lipid barrier of viruses and allows your immune system to destroy the virus, you just need to make sure you're doing a couple things on top of that to cover all bases.

- anti inflammatory supplements/hormones, BHT is also a TNF inhibitor which if you know TNF can cause inflammation, evening primrose oil, linseed oil/ etc,

- bee propolis and a reasonable but not excessive amount of zinc, because too much zinc will f*** your sh*t up, make sure you're balancing it with manganese and copper as well.

- Covid 19 will deplete your iron, as a man I have gotten sick from taking an iron pill in the past, and now I can take it frequently with no ill effects. If that happens to be true which I believe it is, covid could absolutely deplete your iron levels and make your hair growth virtually impossible.

- Vitamin b12/folic acid these are essential if your iron is low, I had pernicious anaemia back in 2010 and once I started taking B12 shots not only did I start feeling dramatically better, but my hair growth was pushed to its peak. If you cannot get B12 shots then you must get methylated b12, not the trash you get in the drug store, I took that and I had no intrinsic factor in my stomach to break it down.

As another person pointed out, something I did not even know, but certain corticosteroids are proven to improve hair growth and in the case of some, they increase aromatase at the receptor level by many hundred times, one of the topicals that pushed my hair growth up dramatically was betamethasone valerate, which is proven to recover from hair loss from a variety of causes. So it makes perfect sense that the anti-inflammatory property of it combined with the aromatase upregulation would precipitate improved hair recovery and growth.

Bacterial or fungal infections can absolutely be worse for hair loss and he needs to make sure he does not have either of those and it must be resolved in some fashion in order for hair growth to not be impeded by the effects that either of those things have on the skin/scalp.

Immunological problems can also arise, and in that case, that in my opinion is also related to inflammation, quelling inflammation is how you stop the immunological cycle from perpetually affecting the body, topical corticosteroids can be used in a pinch, and OTC ones if one cannot get a prescription.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

My personal regimen for hair loss and physical upkeep is different because I by default have certain health issues that which have been potentially life threatening to me since I was an infant.

I have addison's disease, that is my cortisol levels have always fallen short of what they should have been and cortisol is an anti-inflammatory hormone as well as an emotional regulator and controller of water retention.

I have thyroid issues, which also caused me issues pertaining to immune function, being that my immune system would in the past just go wonky and either be overactive or underactive based on what was happening.

I have poor digestion and metabolism of certain nutrients which are caused at least peripherally by the latter two conditions due to inflammation but may also just be a genetic SNP (single nucleotide polymorphism), it's hard to tell.

This is why when I offer assistance in hair loss treatment I assume the person does not have the litany of ridiculous problems I've fought with my entire life, but I also take into consideration that perhaps, if they do not respond to traditional treatment, that they may be in a situation similar to that of my own.

This is also why I have a rather extensive (but not entirely complete or professionally educated) amount of information on a broad variety of issues, I spent close to a decade of my adult life knowing something was seriously wrong with me, and having zero help from doctors because where I live, the supposedly glorious government paid healthcare system actively restricts treatments based on the financial liability they impose in terms of cost to that healthcare system.

So I have aggressively fought with doctors knowing I had addison's disease for years before they finally rolled over and admitted it, I'm now on the cusp of getting metformin as well, even though my endo tried testing me twice for high insulin because he didn't like the fact that I flat out told him it was high (and it turned out to be) and he dismissed me without any actual information on his end.

I now have two other doctors ready to give me that medication regardless of whether this endo is willing to swallow his pride and admit that I need it. I'm going to humiliate that f****r by circumventing him if he doesn't give it to me by telling him I have other doctors jumping at the opportunity to treat me.

I have a strong knowledge in many areas including hair and skin health because it was a matter of survival being shunned by my healthcare system for requiring too many liability incurring treatments.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

In another post my girlfriend recently stated that my skin looks a lot more even in tone since I've gone of my hormonal control protocol. Estrogen is anti-inflammatory, and high levels of testosterone will leave you dry, and dry skin is prone to inflammation much less any inherent properties of androgenic hormones themselves.

Skin hydration also for that reason mitigates inflammation which is also a property of estrogen like hormones.



Gene therapy, China is doing some crazy sh*t with genetic modification but good luck with that ever getting into the hands of common westerners for the purpose of improving aesthetics without it costing an arm and a leg for a good many years.

I don't doubt this but

In another post my girlfriend recently stated that my skin looks a lot more even in tone since I've gone of my hormonal control protocol. Estrogen is anti-inflammatory, and high levels of testosterone will leave you dry, and dry skin is prone to inflammation much less any inherent properties of androgenic hormones themselves.

Skin hydration also for that reason mitigates inflammation which is also a property of estrogen like hormones.



Gene therapy, China is doing some crazy sh*t with genetic modification but good luck with that ever getting into the hands of common westerners for the purpose of improving aesthetics without it costing an arm and a leg for a good many years.

By altering genes, of which there are apparently several related to hair growth, a "cure" might be possible but some of this will depend upon the number of permutations and whether, like chaos theory, altering one gene might "mess up" several others. Talking about improvements in general health, estrogen for many folks will be hard to top. That's why, without taking a stand on the ethics of using HRT primarily for aesthetic purposes, some non-binary folks might opt for estrogen as their primary hormone. Obviously, I am fascinated by all of these aspects and some of the experience is very Freaky Friday for people who aren't hard-wired to be MtF. You actually get to try on being female if you can pass and obviously that is one reason why so many MtF's are fixated on passing.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

My personal regimen for hair loss and physical upkeep is different because I by default have certain health issues that which have been potentially life threatening to me since I was an infant.

I have addison's disease, that is my cortisol levels have always fallen short of what they should have been and cortisol is an anti-inflammatory hormone as well as an emotional regulator and controller of water retention.

I have thyroid issues, which also caused me issues pertaining to immune function, being that my immune system would in the past just go wonky and either be overactive or underactive based on what was happening.

I have poor digestion and metabolism of certain nutrients which are caused at least peripherally by the latter two conditions due to inflammation but may also just be a genetic SNP (single nucleotide polymorphism), it's hard to tell.

This is why when I offer assistance in hair loss treatment I assume the person does not have the litany of ridiculous problems I've fought with my entire life, but I also take into consideration that perhaps, if they do not respond to traditional treatment, that they may be in a situation similar to that of my own.

Those are all excellent points that might be forgotten by others for whom specific treatments might be working. To a certain extent, it is easy to get cocky and assured about how different treatments work. Goddess, god, there is an aspect to recoveries or features that is mostly luck but it is easy for someone to ask, "what's your secret for breast growth?" or whatever. My answer is bug or feature, my protocol seems to have mimicked female puberty but I didn't know that at the time and we still don't know if my experience and that of other developers, similar to non-responders is purely random.

One thing that will always link XY's fighting hair loss is that we all know just how miserable, heartbreaking and random, hair loss can be and regardless of age, it comes too soon. Females spend a lot of time in front of mirrors with makeup and styling but I used to spend lots of time just monitoring my hair loss/maintenance in the mirror or trying to carefully comb it and then arriving to court or whatever looking completely disheveled, not to mention the bright red blotches all over my face from shaving. Females feel free to talk about what sucks for them, which is usually menstruation or inability to enjoy sex. Males tend not to talk about the horrible aspects of being male but it's difficult to me, in this era to imagine a person given a choice opting to be male. One of the hardest things about being male is not being able not to enjoy sex and the compulsive aspects that we seldom talk about but which many of us are comfortable discussing online anonymously.

 

[Marky]

Oral Minoxidil and Facial Side Effects:

There have been some concerns related to minoxidil's effects under the eyes. I am uncertain whether there have been studies or if instead, these are just part of the ravings of the anti-minoxidil, anti-finasteride cohort. In my own context I have noticed what appear to be increases all over my face in terms of facial skin memory. When I wake up, I can see where I lay on the pillow and certain areas seem to be more affected but this seems to be related to estrogenization of the face. I also seem to be noticing an increase in facial feminization which might be equated with that experienced by @bridgeburn at a similar stage of regrowth.

At the end of the day, beard removal is the most feminizing treatment but few cis-guys need this since beard growth is largely unaffected for most under HRT. That's why beard removal is necessary for most but @bridgeburn had the best beard results in terms of corralling beard growth that I have ever seen.

Although it is difficult to unravel since I am on estrogen and progestins which also should increase scalp hair growth, oral minoxidil has slight side-effects for MtFs and for many cis-guys, it has none except for the bit under the eyes. Oral minoxidil appears to begin working immediately, so no you don't have to wait months and months unless someone is dealing with slick bald areas. It also appears to increase the growth rate significantly in terms of centimeter's per year of hair growth. It probably increases length of time in anagen. I have seen slight, non-cosmetically significant effects related to increased body hair and my face is scratchier now since I quit spironolactone and added oral minoxidil.

In terms of advising, I am just eyeballing minoxidil in the dropper and shooting for a ml equivalent to the loniten grams. Loniten is cheap too but Kirkland's minoxidil is so cheap and easy to get without a prescription. Everyone should do his or her research but the product appears to be composed of three things, ethanol, a food preservative that is bitter in taste and then the active ingredient. I was really hesitant about using oral minoxidil after reading and seeing pictures of werewolfism but this condition must be rare. In terms of hair cropping up, I see more eyebrow hair which I simply pluck.

For cis-guys, you might experience no side-effects depending upon fortune but things like increased chest hair growth or thicker beard growth are likely to be seen as features, not bugs, of using oral minoxidil. Oral minoxidil appears to finally give us what Rogaine purported to back in the 80's when there was a huge amount of publicity. Homer had his dimoxinil episode where he has amazing results, going from a full Norwood to hair like Jesus. It is strange to me why it took loniten/oral minoxidil so long to be known about and even now, not many are using oral

Not sure how many are aware of this site but here is the stuff I plan to use in 2021 starting January:

Maxogen-X - MinoxidilMax

FEATURES ✔ Ultimate Solution With Ultimate Convenience: Maxogen-X combines FDA approved ingredients in one single solution to offer the maximum hair regrowth yet with extreme convenience. The product requires only one application per day. It is a non-greasy, clean, odorless, and fast drying...

www.minoxidilmax.com

It’s 7% minoxidil combined with finasteride and other stuff. Seems to be the bomb, or the Cadillac of topical mins, but also kinda expensive.

Any theories on equivalencies vs oral minoxidil?Meaning would 5% rogaine topical be same as 5mg oral minoxidil? 10mg oral minoxidil be equivalent to a 10% solution?

I remember antidhtor used a 15% topical minoxidil to regrow his hairline, but that was with cpa and E assistance.

 

[Marky]

Merry Christmas.

I have been greatly blessed with my transition this year and now my hair and it's all been so interesting and wonderful as my hair grows longer and creeps downward to cover my ears, which should happen in the next week or so.

I placed a bulk order for Estrogel. If you buy ten tubes, then you get five percent off. This is probably my last purchase of Estrogel as I don't think that it is necessary for transition or hair regrowth but I do think that topical application appears to do something additional to what oral estradiol or the other forms appear to do. It also is likely to work better in general when applied to labia or scrotal tissue. So, although I have been using Estrogel liberally throughout my scalp hair, some might only need it in the crown or the front.

The regrowth continues to differ from what I expected. It's apparent to me now just how much hair loss I had had in front of the ears and then upwards to the temples but this growth appears not linked in particular to the loss at the temples. The quality of the hair all over the scalp is improving gradually but clearly. My having diffuse thinning might contribute to these quality effects being noticeable. I am still wondering about incremental hair improvement using Estrogel as opposed to actually having to hit targets as I have focused on since June, for the first time, to maintain targets in the adult female range to see if that seemed to kick-start hair growth and along with oral minoxidil, it really has taken me much closer to my goals. In a male context, I would be fine with this level of hair and quality the rest of my life. In a female context, I need the frontal hairline to continue to lower and there is a lot of hair regrowth in this area.

How much did you pay for 10 tubes of e gel?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Not sure how many are aware of this site but here is the stuff I plan to use in 2021 starting January:

Maxogen-X - MinoxidilMax

FEATURES ✔ Ultimate Solution With Ultimate Convenience: Maxogen-X combines FDA approved ingredients in one single solution to offer the maximum hair regrowth yet with extreme convenience. The product requires only one application per day. It is a non-greasy, clean, odorless, and fast drying...

www.minoxidilmax.com

It’s 7% minoxidil combined with finasteride and other stuff. Seems to be the bomb, or the Cadillac of topical mins, but also kinda expensive.

Any theories on equivalencies vs oral minoxidil?Meaning would 5% rogaine topical be same as 5mg oral minoxidil? 10mg oral minoxidil be equivalent to a 10% solution?

I remember antidhtor used a 15% topical minoxidil to regrow his hairline, but that was with cpa and E assistance.

Marky, it's good to see you post. One of our regular contributors posted this article, yesterday or Saturday:

Efficacy and Safety of Oral Minoxidil 5 mg Once Daily in the Treatment of Male Patients with Androgenetic Alopecia: An Open-Label and Global Photographic Assessment - Dermatology and Therapy

Introduction Oral minoxidil is an antihypertensive vasodilator known to stimulate hair growth. The use of low-dose oral minoxidil for the treatment of male androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) is receiving increasing attention. The aim of this study was to evaluate the efficacy and safety of oral...

link.springer.com

It has good information related to the strengths of male hair loss treatments that have been confirmed as efficacious via testing.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

How much did you pay for 10 tubes of e gel?

$250. Essentially, it saved me the $16 in shipping. Because of the expense, I have to moderate my use and see if I can get the pump version covered by my insurance. There is a Brazilian vendor who is about half the cost but this is a case where at least temporarily, I want the certified estradiol gel.

I have probably spent $2,000 this year on Estrogel and/or Life Flo Biestro. Yikes, right? But cosmetic treatments except for botox and oral minoxidil are rarely cheap.

Particularly with the Estrogel, I feel that I am testing out various topical placements related to MtF's. I am also trying to ascertain youth and rejuvenation effects from topical estrogen and how they might be more substantial or occur more quickly when using topicals.

When things are going well, it's good to stay with the plan but the ultimate goal is maintenance through estradiol tabs. I want to make this easier, not harder and more expensive but there are also jump-start aspects to regrowth that Estrogel might provide. Estradiol might have some addictive properties and I am using lots and lots, which reminds me that my test from Friday should be available from my provider. I will post it and try to go through it but that's a forte of others and I am curious to hear what others think as well as providing data points.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Also vitamin D, which I forgot, if you have critically low levels of Vitamin D your hair loss can persist regardless of any other protocols.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

$250. Essentially, it saved me the $16 in shipping. Because of the expense, I have to moderate my use and see if I can get the pump version covered by my insurance. There is a Brazilian vendor who is about half the cost but this is a case where at least temporarily, I want the certified estradiol gel.

I have probably spent $2,000 this year on Estrogel and/or Life Flo Biestro. Yikes, right? But cosmetic treatments except for botox and oral minoxidil are rarely cheap.

Particularly with the Estrogel, I feel that I am testing out various topical placements related to MtF's. I am also trying to ascertain youth and rejuvenation effects from topical estrogen and how they might be more substantial or occur more quickly when using topicals.

When things are going well, it's good to stay with the plan but the ultimate goal is maintenance through estradiol tabs. I want to make this easier, not harder and more expensive but there are also jump-start aspects to regrowth that Estrogel might provide. Estradiol might have some addictive properties and I am using lots and lots, which reminds me that my test from Friday should be available from my provider. I will post it and try to go through it but that's a forte of others and I am curious to hear what others think as well as providing data points.

Where the heck did you get estrogel online for that cheap if you don't mind my asking?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

$250. Essentially, it saved me the $16 in shipping. Because of the expense, I have to moderate my use and see if I can get the pump version covered by my insurance.

I have probably spent $2,000 this year on Estrogel and/or Life Flo Biestro. Yikes, right? But cosmetic treatments except for botox and oral minoxidil are rarely cheap.

Particularly with the Estrogel, I feel that I am testing out various topical placements related to MtF's. I am also trying to ascertain youth and rejuvenation effects from topical estrogen and how they might be more substantial or occur more quickly when using topicals.

When things are going well, it's good to stay with the plan but the ultimate goal is maintenance through estradiol tabs. I want to make this easier, not harder and more expensive but there are also jump-start aspects to regrowth that Estrogel might provide. Estradiol might have some addictive properties and I am using lots and lots, which reminds me that my test from Friday should be available from my provider. I will post it and try to go through it but that's a forte of others and I am curious to hear what others think as well as providing data points.

Where the heck did you get estrogel online for that cheap if you don't mind my asking?

Amazon4health. This is sort of a middling price from the only off-shore vendor that I know of, who takes credit cards. They also have first class shipping and customer service.

Hrt.cafe, not sure why it has no .com or whatever but just paste it into a browser and about 20 vendors pop up that folks have used on reddit MtF boards successfully. I posted pictures of the shipping container and contents for those who don't want anyone curious getting into their meds. They pack the stuff like a rock and it takes five minutes to get into even with scissors. Btw, I also order Latisse from them but I think oral minoxidil is plenty for eyelashes and Latisse is $40 a month depending upon use. This vendor only sells topical minoxidil unfortunately so sometimes you run into the issue where you want two different things and don't want to pay for both. I also use Amazon4Health for my Retin-A and it is $30 a tube. The Estrogel seems to be a great carrier for Retin-A, by the way, which is very important for folks with sensitive skin.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

The Estrogel seems to be a great carrier for Retin-A, by the way, which is very important for folks with sensitive skin.

This is probably why my estriol has retinyl palmitate in it.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

This is probably why my estriol has retinyl palmitate in it.

I appreciate all of your help and observations and your being frank about life struggles. It's easy to forget that we don't all start in the same place as balding XY's.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

I appreciate all of your help and observations and your being frank about live struggles. It's easy to forget that we don't all start in the same place as balding XY's.

Well thankfully losing hair no longer, and on the road to recovery, but yeah. It really helps to know what other health related issues might be at play that may impede hair retention and restoration.

 

[Swarleyd]

Nice thread, i read your post on tressless very instructive !
So my question is : What is the best treatment for baldness for a cis-male who don’t mind a slight gyno but who wants his dick to work fine ?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Nice thread, i read your post on tressless very instructive !
So my question is : What is the best treatment for baldness for a cis-male who don’t mind a slight gyno but who wants his dick to work fine ?

I will gladly go into that, and I assume you mean using HRT for its hair benefits, although there are many guys on here with knowledge related to Serms, which I consider an extremely high level technique and there just isn't even a whole lot of anecdotal info out there except to say that Serms do/can work but other MtF's and non-binary folks think that they are still risky in terms of avoiding breast growth. Weight lifters and body builders tend to have a lot of the knowledge related to Serms and masking their use and that of T, along with clomid.

In terms of maintaining sexual capacity, that seems well within reach for most XY's even those with adult female levels of estrogen. The key is to induce erections frequently and v**** is fine and still works for intact MtF's. The hitch is that you might not want to experience erections because your sex drive might be decreased and as I term it, it can become difficult to "groove" to your former pet fantasies. I think that this might primarily be an issue for people who use spironolactone, CPA and Bicalutamide but estrogen in general reduces fixation also. We know that CPA and MPA are both used to treat sexual offenders and to hopefully provide them with relief from fixative thought which is all but universal among males and all but unknown in females.

Note, I have used also and still use this med called MPA which for me has had only good sides and which might be a better and more straightforward hair med than the class commonly referred to as AA's. This gets confusing because technically finasteride, dutasteride, medroxyprogesterone acetate, CPA/Androcur and the 'mides are all anti-androgenic. Of the six, only MPA seems to work to actually decrease circulating levels of testosterone which makes it easier to monitor via testing. Reductase inhibitors are selective and only inhibit DHT while the other three are to me, just strange. They spoof higher estrogen and lower testosterone levels by occupying androgen receptors but they seem to be highly unpredictable in their effectiveness and sides. One reason why I wanted to get involved on here has been my nightmare of a year on spironolactone, which some people use and say works fine for them. These meds are also all synthetic, require a pass through the liver and are without a long history of human use.

It seems to me, based upon my own experiences with spironolactone that many DIY'ers get it backwards expecting estrogen to be more feminizing than AA's. Many of the stereotypical things about ideation related to males and females having different modes of getting into the mode can be true. On spironolactone plus estrogen, I found my strength vastly decreased; I was exhausted; I sweated profusely; had to pee constantly from the diuretic effects, lost virtually all of my hair and lost all of my sex drive, which for me was a feature not a bug, at least for a while. I literally could not get into the mind-set which was a relief from compulsion and the need to fixate, not just on sex but on other things while I tried to figure my life out.

There are several folks on here using AA's plus estrogen and getting good results but I tend to think that they are mostly necessary when someone can't reach target levels. @bridgeburn who inspired many of us, stated that he never lost the ability to engage with his significant other although his erectile capacity might have been somewhat affected. He regrew long angelic curls like a rock star from not much more than a horse shoe pattern but his feminization was also all but complete, including breast development. He continued to use male pronouns which is similar to many non-binary folks, hence I use male pronouns in reference to him.

Although he did everyone a great service by pictorially proving over two years time that all but complete restoration with long periods of anagen could be achieved via HRT, he didn't follow through on really dealing with the idea as to whether his success was replicable without becoming recognizable as a female. Virtually all MtF's would drool over his results. Nevertheless, that only takes cis-guys so far. Now we know this is possible and believe or not, except for one off transition photos, there are essentially no pictorial essays or what have you that progress from complete baldness to a full head of hair. Many expected him to get a breast reduction to complete the experiment and there appeared to be disappointment from some when he declared that he was "keeping them".

Now the goal in my mind, is to see if his "journey" or that of the several others enjoying amazing success could be achieved without AA's because they are correlated with so many sides and problems but primarily without cis-guys having to use more E2 than necessary and obviously without their appearing feminized if possible. Thus, it's a goal to see if HRT has mostly incremental positive effects over time (it did for me) or whether this is a situation where hitting adult female targets is sort of a light switch turning hair growth back on (this also appears to be true for me). My current feeling is that both things occur but it might be necessary to maintain target levels in the female zone for a considerable amount of time, say from eight to 16 months to fully effectuate the anagen and hair growth properties from "turning on" "female" hair and to then move on to maintenance. There's a fellow name of Noah, who has gone off HRT and is at the one year mark using now only dutasteride and he posts frequently and we all hope for the best and so far, based upon the scores of pictures, there is only some corner recession, although the texture of the hair might have changed and his ability to grow it long is likely to be decreased but we shall see.

I have been very excited by oral minoxidil but I got a DM from someone today saying they used pills with dutasteride, finasteride and oral minoxidil and nothing doing even after two years and he sent me several pics. Nevertheless, I think that oral minoxidil is the best male hair treatment ever and combining it with dutasteride and derma-rolling and Keto/Nizoral is pretty much the gold standard for cis-males who don't fear reductase inhibitors. Please, if you want, post more details and people will chime in who might have similar goals and experiences to you. I look forward to hearing about your progress and every data point, anecdotal or not, is helpful to the next general of XY's.

Related to your choices, somewhat it depends upon your goals and hair loss history and your current meds. There are some cis-males who probably would be better served by either giving up or by putting an effort into learning how to harness derma-rolling. If you saw the poll at the beginning, almost thirty percent who take the time to answer, won't use dutasteride or finasteride which puts a person into a hole to begin with. So, I would start with dutasteride since it has better specs than finasteride and I would start at between 2.5 mg and 10 mg of oral minoxidil, which can be Kirkland's topical so this option is dirt cheap. You just have to convert mg into the ml equivalent which is a tiny amount made more difficult by the lack of metric droppers with extended ml markings.

Any treatment needs to be continued from six months to 12 months without switching meds in the HRT context unless the sides are too bad but then there is the option of tapering downward. Tapering upwards and downwards often referred to titration is something that many folks forget about when deciding they can't tolerate certain meds. Lots of guys have pinpointed different ways of using finasteride that benefit them without sides. I have only ever gotten unexpected/intolerable sides from spironolactone and not from dustasteride, estrogen or MPA.

If you have already committed at least possibly to the idea of using AA's or estrogen, then you can add estrogen plus an AA but not an AA alone as bone loss and other issues might present. How much estradiol? We don't know but I don't think anyone with significant cosmetic improvement has used less than 2 mg swallowed daily. @bridgeburn for comparison was on two different aggressive protocols, even for MtF's. He took his estradiol tabs buccally or sublingually which tends to promote high levels of estrogen in the blood, up to three times as much.

Too much estrogen is pretty much impossible for MtF's and innocuous to human health so we can more or less just blast away with estrogen and AA's and that was his approach, the full-on kitchen sink where he didn't test and just went by the mirror, which is actually a pretty good method for MtF's but not for cis-males except HRT requires constant monitoring and things can sneak up on a person and once a person reaches the point of significant breast growth, he has to back off. I didn't though and neither did he. For me, I knew somehow that estrogen was the key even 36 years ago and I couldn't end the experiment until it had played out.

A lot of this is or can be thrilling. There's very little that can compete with hair restoration in terms of rolling back the clock and improving looks and youth. More and more, I am spending many minutes a day brushing mine because it doesn't "hurt" to brush vigorously and I no longer fear an AA shed. The psychological state is fascinating as well but people need to be wary; some might like the psychological effects so much that they don't want to "go back". I am seriously very close to being just as happy with my entire physical and psychological aspect as I have been since I was 17. I wasn't done with my hair and you probably aren't either.

 

[Swarleyd]

Thank you ! Very instructive but i’d like to say “as always”. Many thanks.

One thing, you mention oral minoxidil as drinking the liquid. Is it really effective as oral tablets minoxidil ?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Nice thread, i read your post on tressless very instructive !
So my question is : What is the best treatment for baldness for a cis-male who don’t mind a slight gyno but who wants his dick to work fine ?

I will gladly go into that, and I assume you mean using HRT for its hair benefits, although there are many guys on here with knowledge related to Serms, which I consider an extremely high level technique and there just isn't even a whole lot of anecdotal info out there except to say that Serms do/can work but other MtF's and non-binary folks think that they are still risky in terms of avoiding breast growth.

In terms of maintaining sexually capacity, that seems within reach for most XY's even those with adult female levels of estrogen. The key is to induce erections frequently and v**** is fine and still works for intact MtF's. The hitch is that you might not want to experience erections because your sex drive might be decreased and as I term it, it can become difficult to "groove" to your former pet fantasies. I think that this might primarily be an issue for people who use spironolactone, CPA and Bicalutamide.

Note, I have used also and still use a med called MPA which for me has had only good sides and which might be a better and more straightforward hair med than the class commonly referred to as AA's. This gets confusing because technically finasteride, dutasteride, medroxyprogesterone acetate, CPA/Androcur and the 'mides are all anti-androgenic. Of the six, only MPA seems to work to actually decrease circulating levels of testosterone which makes it easier to monitor via testing. Reductase inhibitors are selective and only inhibit DHT while the other three are to me, just strange. They spoof higher estrogen and lower testosterone levels by occupying androgen receptors but they seem to be highly unpredictable in their effectiveness and sides. One reason why I wanted to get involved on here has been my nightmare of a year on spironolactone, which some people use and say works fine for them. These meds are also all synthetic, require a pass through the liver and are without a long history of human use.

It seems to me, based upon my own experiences with spironolactone that many DIY'ers get it backwards expecting estrogen to be more feminizing than AA's. Many of the stereotypical things about ideation related to males and females having different modes of getting into the mode can be true. On spironolactone plus estrogen, I found my strength vastly decreased; I was exhausted; I sweated profusely; lost virtually all of my hair and lost all of my sex drive, which for me was a feature not a bug, at least for a while. I literally could not get into the mind-set which was a relief from compulsion and the need to fixate. There are several folks on here using AA's and getting good results but I tend to think that they are mostly necessary only when someone can't reach target levels. @bridgeburn who inspired many of us, stated that he never lost the ability to engage with his significant other although his erectile capacity might have been somewhat affected.

Related to your choices, somewhat it depends upon your goals and hair loss history and your current meds. There are some cis-males who probably would be better served by either giving up or by putting an effort into learning how to harness derma-rolling. If you saw the poll at the beginning,

Also vitamin D, which I forgot, if you have critically low levels of Vitamin D your hair loss can persist regardless of any other protocols.

Good point but lol, increasing scalp hair is likely to decrease vitamin D absorption. Might not male pattern baldness be related to increasing vitamin D production is northern climes with long winters? Also folks who use retinoids need to moderate their time in the sun so vitamin D supplementation might be a good idea.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Thank you ! Very instructive but i’d like to say “as always”. Many thanks.

One thing, you mention oral minoxidil as drinking the liquid. Is it really effective as oral tablets minoxidil ?

I can't say because like many, my stack is too large to calibrate precisely what is doing what. I assume the tabs have primarily filler in them because the liquid amounts in ml are tiny and you wonder, could this really be enough to do anything? .50 ml is close to 10 mg, I believe according to Marky, which if split into two doses is not much Kirkland's at all. I just ordered droppers but they only go down to .25 ml or so, so I might move to two daily doses of .25 ml.

I do know that drinking liquid minoxidil is doing something for me that is a negative so it's "working" but for cis-guys, these things are all likely to be positive within reason: increased beard growth, increased eyelash growth, eyebrow growth but my big issue is below the waist, which makes sense I guess since XX's tend to carry all of their body hair except under their arms, below the waist. Anyway, my leg hair and beard growth both appear to be more abundant so I will probably need a few more laser treatments. I have had my arms and face done since starting oral minoxidil ten weeks ago. But for a 22 year old who wants to increase beard hair and chest hair (this is becoming more rare related to hairy chests no longer being "in style" except for FtM's, go figure) and scalp hair, there aren't many negatives. I dislike arm hair on everyone but that's me. I guess some people don't mind it but @bridgeburn stated essentially only increased arm hair growth. It also didn't seem to do anything to help his beard so female hormones are probably protective somewhat related to excess body hair growth. I love my lashes and brows though and my beard is still invisible although I can feel it more now.

Somehow even beyond this, when a treatment is working, you know. I can tell oral minoxidil has at the least, quickened my results and I can probably titrate downwards soon. At lower levels according to some, sheds are more likely but there are fewer "sides" for females who can use as little as .25 mg oral tablets and get results.