3 month hair growth results without using minoxidil or propecia(GREAT RESULTS)

[Ticken]

Natural ? lol . You are using bi-estro(estrial&estriol) cream. that will go systemic.

Just to chime in and alleviate some fears here, OTC Bi-estro cream does NOT go systemic.
Over the Counter estriol, estradiol and bi-ests are formulated in a much weaker strength than Pharmaceutical Estradiols like Estrogel, Divigel or Sandrena gel.
I can attest to the Non Systemic due to the great number of women I know who have attempted to raise their Estradiol Levels using Otc Estradiol or Bi-est without success. Blood Serum Estradiol Levels don't move with OTC E creams. Only Pharmaceutical strength will move the needle on E levels.

 

[Norwoody]

Just to chime in and alleviate some fears here, OTC Bi-estro cream does NOT go systematic.
Over the Counter estriol, estradiol and bi-ests are formulated in a much weaker strength than Pharmaceutical Estradiols like Estrogel, Divigel or Sandrena gel.
I can attest to the Non Systematic due to the great number of women I know who have attempted to raise their Estradiol Levels using Otc Estradiol or Bi-est without success. Blood Serum Estradiol Levels don't move with OTC E creams. Only Pharmaceutical strength will move the needle on E levels.

What are your thoughts on its efficacy for hair growth?

 

[deathdiss]

Just to chime in and alleviate some fears here, OTC Bi-estro cream does NOT go systematic.
Over the Counter estriol, estradiol and bi-ests are formulated in a much weaker strength than Pharmaceutical Estradiols like Estrogel, Divigel or Sandrena gel.
I can attest to the Non Systematic due to the great number of women I know who have attempted to raise their Estradiol Levels using Otc Estradiol or Bi-est without success. Blood Serum Estradiol Levels don't move with OTC E creams. Only Pharmaceutical strength will move the needle on E levels.

Thanks for clarifying this

I've had so many people tell me they are scared of bi-estro cream thinking they will turn into transgenders but i keep telling them ive had no side effects.

 

[deathdiss]

What are your thoughts on its efficacy for hair growth?

i personally don't believe it's going to be efficient if ur diet is lacking. in fact any of the regimes i did wouldn't work that well if I was eating a standard american diet.


I've seen many people who say they've used rosemary oil or borage oil etc and yield no results after x amount of months.

ive yielded results because i was dieting and yet I was just told my diet regime is absolute garbage and was lacking in PUFA fats. So you can imagine if I had a better planned out diet my results would have been much better to see.

I feel like bi-estro cream will really work if your diet is on par. In fact, if people actually had a proper diet on minoxidil they would have much better results.

I'm getting my meal plan re-evaluated by Taeian as I type this.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Thanks for clarifying this

I've had so many people tell me they are scared of bi-estro cream thinking they will turn into transgenders but i keep telling them ive had no side effects.

288.38 g/mol molecular weight of Estriol
272.4 g/mol mlecular weight of Estradiol

And you think that will not go systemic !? Lol . PLus, in males, even if just a little amount go systemic, will give you side effects.

 

[deathdiss]

288.38 g/mol molecular weight of Estriol
272.4 g/mol mlecular weight of Estradiol

And you think that will not go systemic !? Lol . PLus, in males, even if just a little amount go systemic, will give you side effects.

I keep telling you not experiencing any sides. Neither did the people who used bi-esto cream on scalp did either.

Technically speaking just to make my case I did microneedling and applied bi-estro cream right after and still no side effects.

Are you quoting pharmaceutical estriol? Also, did you see Tickens response?

 

[Ticken]

What are your thoughts on its efficacy for hair growth?

Well, Systemic Estradiol definitely increases hair growth and density for some women, transwomen and men.
We just don't know all the factors in why Estradiol increase growth so we don't understand (yet) why it doesn't work for everyone (did they not get their blood levels high enough or were they perhaps too high). I suspect there is a sweet spot or goldilocks zone for most of us and it varies by individual. Generally, for women, a Blood Serum Level of 200-400 pg/ml will give more hair growth and density. I don't know what that number would be for men because of course there is no research, no clinical studies.

Both Phillip Kingsley and Belgravia seem to be proponents of topical Estrogens and Progesterone for hair growth.
I think the research in the form of clinical studies is just not there because everyone (Doctors, Pharmaceutical Companies, etc) are afraid of Estrogen ever since that incredibly flawed WHI Study in the early 2000's which suggested that Synthetic Estrogen and Synthetic Progestins were linked with increased Cancer and Heart Disease. It was an incredibly faulty Study and set the research in Estrogen & Progesterone Replacement research back by decades. Here's some data if you are interested in how that all came to be https://www.womens-health-concern.org/help-and-advice/factsheets/hrt-the-history/

It's good to remember that Bio identical Estrogen (Estradiol and Estriol) are extremely safe in healthy amounts. Both women and men have endogenous Estrogen circulating in their bodies. Synthetic Estrogens are where the waters start to get murky. Estrogel, Divigel, Sandrena Gel are all Bioidentical Estradiol.

I see no potential harm using an OTC Estriol, Estradiol or Biest cream on the scalp.
In fact, I'm wondering if OTC E creams might actually work better applied to the scalp (even though they are in much weaker strengths simply because they may hang around the follicle area for longer due to their poor systemic absorption). Pharmaceutical Estrogel is formulated to absorb through the skin and into the blood stream quickly so I'm wondering if even though it is much stronger it doesn't get to spend as much time saturating the follicles. It's just a hypothesis and probably somewhat flawed but maybe.

As a woman, I wish it were that easy to increase my Systemic E with OTC creams! I need the big guns (Estrogels etc) in order to raise my E level.

 

[Norwoody]

Well, Systematic Estradiol definitely increases hair growth and density for some women, transwomen and men.
We just don't know all the factors in why Systematic Estradiol increase growth so we don't understand (yet) why it doesn't work for everyone (did they not get their blood levels high enough or were they perhaps too high). I suspect there is a sweet spot or goldilocks zone for most of us and it varies by individual. Generally, for women, a Blood Serum Level of 200-400 pg/ml will give more hair growth and density. I don't know what that number would be for men because of course there is no research, no clinical studies.

Both Phillip Kingsley and Belgravia seem to be proponents of topical Estrogens and Progesterone for hair growth.
I think the research in the form of clinical studies is just not there because everyone (Doctors, Pharmaceutical Companies, etc) are afraid of Estrogen ever since that incredibly flawed WHI Study in the early 2000's which suggested that Systematic Synthetic Estrogen and Synthetic Progestins were linked with increased Cancer and Heart Disease. It was an incredibly faulty Study and set the research in Estrogen & Progesterone Replacement research back by decades. Here's some data if you are interested in how that all came to be https://www.womens-health-concern.org/help-and-advice/factsheets/hrt-the-history/

It's good to remember that Bio identical Estrogen (Estradiol and Estriol) are extremely safe in healthy amounts. Both women and men have endogenous Estrogen circulating in their bodies. Synthetic Estrogens are where the waters start to get murky. Estrogel, Divigel, Sandrena Gel are all Bioidentical Estradiol.

I really see no potential harm whatsover using an OTC Estriol, Estradiol or Biest cream on the scalp.
In fact, I'm wondering if OTC E creams might actually work better applied to the scalp (even though they are in much weaker strengths simply because they may hang around the follicle area for longer due to their poor systematic absorption). Pharmaceutical Estrogel is formulated to absorb through the skin and into the blood stream quickly so I'm wondering if even though it is much stronger it doesnt get to spend as much time saturating the follicles. It's just a hypothesis and probably somewhat flawed but maybe.

As a woman, I wish it were that easy to increase my Systematic E with OTC creams! I need the big guns (Estrogels etc) in order to raise my E level.

Very interesting, thanks for the info.

 

[TDE97]

A small update:

even though I am making hair gains Taeian reviewed my hair protocal and says it's lacking in PUFA fats which is so important for hair growth.

so my diet was pretty much SHITTT.

He's agreed to hook me up with a custom plan with my preference of 3 meals a day.

Its weird that he told you to take more PUFA when online sources says otherwise for hair loss. Unless i am missing something here

 

[deathdiss]

Its weird that he told you to take more PUFA when online sources says otherwise for hair loss. Unless i am missing something here

hair needs fat from my understanding

 

[Ticken]

hair needs fat from my understanding

Hair (and skin) need fat but not any fat will do, it needs to be High Quality fats. Seems theres loads of misinformation and contradictory opinions about what is a High Quality Fat. A big part of what makes a fat healthy is its Stability, how likely it is to Oxidize. Oxidized fats create inflammation.

Saturated - Most stable and least likely to oxidize. (best sources to consume would be MCT/Virgin Coconut Oil, Grass Fed Butters)

Monounsaturated - Relatively stable but not quite as stable as Saturated. (best sources to consume would be Avocados, Eggs, Olives)

Polyunsaturated - Least stable and very easily oxidized. Omega 3 (fatty fish) and Omega 6 (canola, corn, peanut and other vegetable oils).

Trans fat (trans-fatty acids) - Artificial fat (highly inflammatory).

Its weird that he told you to take more PUFA when online sources says otherwise for hair loss. Unless i am missing something here

Two of the most important fats for health (and Hair Growth) are Omega 6s and Omega 3s and they are PUFAs.
Omega 6s are necessary for the body to function but they are not as health promoting as Omega 3s.
Omega 6s tend to be pro-inflammatory especially in higher amounts (pro-inflammatory equals poor hair health) while Omega 3s are anti-inflammatory (key for hair health).

A suggested ratio to aim for between 6's and 3's is around 4:1. Meaning for every 4 grams of Omega 6 you would aim to consume at least 1gram of Omega 3 as well. Harder than it sounds because Omega 6s are in loads of food we normally eat while Omega 3s are hard to get unless you make a real effort.

 

[Micky_007]

Well, Systemic Estradiol definitely increases hair growth and density for some women, transwomen and men.
We just don't know all the factors in why Systemic Estradiol increase growth so we don't understand (yet) why it doesn't work for everyone (did they not get their blood levels high enough or were they perhaps too high). I suspect there is a sweet spot or goldilocks zone for most of us and it varies by individual. Generally, for women, a Blood Serum Level of 200-400 pg/ml will give more hair growth and density. I don't know what that number would be for men because of course there is no research, no clinical studies.

Both Phillip Kingsley and Belgravia seem to be proponents of topical Estrogens and Progesterone for hair growth.
I think the research in the form of clinical studies is just not there because everyone (Doctors, Pharmaceutical Companies, etc) are afraid of Estrogen ever since that incredibly flawed WHI Study in the early 2000's which suggested that Systemic Synthetic Estrogen and Synthetic Progestins were linked with increased Cancer and Heart Disease. It was an incredibly faulty Study and set the research in Estrogen & Progesterone Replacement research back by decades. Here's some data if you are interested in how that all came to be https://www.womens-health-concern.org/help-and-advice/factsheets/hrt-the-history/

It's good to remember that Bio identical Estrogen (Estradiol and Estriol) are extremely safe in healthy amounts. Both women and men have endogenous Estrogen circulating in their bodies. Synthetic Estrogens are where the waters start to get murky. Estrogel, Divigel, Sandrena Gel are all Bioidentical Estradiol.

I really see no potential harm whatsover using an OTC Estriol, Estradiol or Biest cream on the scalp.
In fact, I'm wondering if OTC E creams might actually work better applied to the scalp (even though they are in much weaker strengths simply because they may hang around the follicle area for longer due to their poor systematic absorption). Pharmaceutical Estrogel is formulated to absorb through the skin and into the blood stream quickly so I'm wondering if even though it is much stronger it doesnt get to spend as much time saturating the follicles. It's just a hypothesis and probably somewhat flawed but maybe.

As a woman, I wish it were that easy to increase my Systemic E with OTC creams! I need the big guns (Estrogels etc) in order to raise my E level.

This theory of yours may be true regarding there not being systemic absorbtion of OTC Bi-estro cream if applied topically to the scalp, it may however also not be true, because different people react differently to everything...

Also,

@deathdiss mentioned that he micro-needles and applies Bi-estro cream. Microneedling opens the pores primarily allowing for far greater absorbtion, in such a case I would not believe that even OTC Bi-estro cream doesn't go systemic. It's super high risk that way

 

[Ticken]

This theory of yours may be true regarding there not being systemic absorbtion of OTC Bi-estro cream if applied topically to the scalp, it may however also not be true, because different people react differently to everything...

There are always outliers, but in my experience of talking to other women who are using OTC E creams, it's incredibly difficult to raise estriol and estradiol levels with these OTC E creams alone. It would take the addition of a Pharmaceutical Strength E like Estrogel, Oral Estradiol or an Estradiol Patch to raise E levels meaningfully.

Estriol is also the weakest Estrogen. OTC Bi-est cream tends to be made in a 80/20 ratio of Estriol to Estradiol. So one is getting mostly a very weak Estrogen in a very low amount.

For peace of mind, perhaps any male using one of the OTC E Creams could have their Estrogens (Estradiol and Estriol) tested at a Walk In/Self Serve Blood Lab. These Walk In Blood Labs don't require a Requisition from a Doctor. Ideally, test blood levels before starting an OTC E cream and then periodically (maybe every few months or sooner if you felt you were experiencing any sort of higher E symptom).

Estradiol | Blood Test - Life Extension

An estradiol blood test helps keep an eye on estrogen levels. Estradiol often becomes unbalanced in both men and women as they age.

www.lifeextension.com

Estriol (E3) Blood Test Online | Convenient | Request A Test: Request A Test

An Estriol blood test can be a useful part of prenatal lab testing. Order affordable hormone and prenatal blood testing from Request A Test. We work with over 3600 lab locations nationwide.

requestatest.com

Search For Lab Tests Here

Do you know what you are looking for and are ready to order? Click here to use our fast, convenient and easy to use search tools.

www.ultalabtests.com

 

[deathdiss]

This theory of yours may be true regarding there not being systemic absorbtion of OTC Bi-estro cream if applied topically to the scalp, it may however also not be true, because different people react differently to everything...

Also,

@deathdiss mentioned that he micro-needles and applies Bi-estro cream. Microneedling opens the pores primarily allowing for far greater absorbtion, in such a case I would not believe that even OTC Bi-estro cream doesn't go systemic. It's super high risk that way

yes correct...I should be technically speaking be getting "systemic" absorbtion due to 2.5m needling but i assume because dosage levels are so low it's not producing any effect.

 

[Micky_007]

There are always outliers, but in my experience of talking to other women who are using OTC E creams, it's incredibly difficult to raise estriol and estradiol levels with these OTC E creams alone. It would take the addition of a Pharmaceutical Strength E like Estrogel, Oral Estradiol or an Estradiol Patch to raise E levels meaningfully.

Estriol is also the weakest Estrogen. OTC Bi-est cream tends to be made in a 80/20 ratio of Estriol to Estradiol. So one is getting mostly a very weak Estrogen in a very low amount.

For peace of mind, perhaps any male using one of the OTC E Creams could have their Estrogens (Estradiol and Estriol) tested at a Walk In/Self Serve Blood Lab. These Walk In Blood Labs don't require a Requisition from a Doctor. Ideally, test blood levels before starting an OTC E cream and then periodically (maybe every few months or sooner if you felt you were experiencing any sort of higher E symptom).

Estradiol | Blood Test - Life Extension

An estradiol blood test helps keep an eye on estrogen levels. Estradiol often becomes unbalanced in both men and women as they age.

www.lifeextension.com

Estriol (E3) Blood Test Online | Convenient | Request A Test: Request A Test

An Estriol blood test can be a useful part of prenatal lab testing. Order affordable hormone and prenatal blood testing from Request A Test. We work with over 3600 lab locations nationwide.

requestatest.com

Search For Lab Tests Here

Do you know what you are looking for and are ready to order? Click here to use our fast, convenient and easy to use search tools.

www.ultalabtests.com

I would think that men would be much more sensitive to increases in Estrogen than women, even if Estriol is the weakest Estrogen. So even just a slight increase in Estrogen could potentially cause problems.

Yes, testing Estrogen levels would be a good DIY monitoring method. Wish there were more studies on it though, because I'm not prepared to take the risk of trialing Bi-estro cream anytime soon. Messing with hormones can lead to a ripple effect and the possibility of hormones never going back to what they were

 

[oddmood]

The "More plates" guy already tried this and had no apparent effect on hair also he claims that only estrone increased in serum and not the other more potent estrogens.
Still, for those who want to try this route, a combination of progesterone with alfatradiol or estrone it's much safer.
In italy the most renowned hair doctors use this combination for years along min, finasteride and dutasteride.

A presentation from a doctor https://www.ishrs-htforum.org/content/htfi/24/5/170.full.pdf

A 6 year story of a guy using such a mix

 

[TDE97]

Hair (and skin) need fat but not any fat will do, it needs to be High Quality fats. Seems theres loads of misinformation and contradictory opinions about what is a High Quality Fat. A big part of what makes a fat healthy is its Stability, how likely it is to Oxidize. Oxidized fats create inflammation.

Saturated - Most stable and least likely to oxidize. (best sources to consume would be MCT/Virgin Coconut Oil, Grass Fed Butters)

Monounsaturated - Relatively stable but not quite as stable as Saturated. (best sources to consume would be Avocados, Eggs, Olives)

Polyunsaturated - Least stable and very easily oxidized. Omega 3 (fatty fish) and Omega 6 (canola, corn, peanut and other vegetable oils).

Trans fat (trans-fatty acids) - Artificial fat (highly inflammatory).


Two of the most important fats for health (and Hair Growth) are Omega 6s and Omega 3s and they are PUFAs.
Omega 6s are necessary for the body to function but they are not as health promoting as Omega 3s.
Omega 6s tend to be pro-inflammatory especially in higher amounts (pro-inflammatory equals poor hair health) while Omega 3s are anti-inflammatory (key for hair health).

A suggested ratio to aim for between 6's and 3's is around 4:1. Meaning for every 4 grams of Omega 6 you would aim to consume at least 1gram of Omega 3 as well. Harder than it sounds because Omega 6s are in loads of food we normally eat while Omega 3s are hard to get unless you make a real effort.

Interesting info, I appreciate for the detailed insight. Would eating one piece of salmon and fish oil supplement a day would be enough to fit the ratio?

 

[deathdiss]

Interesting info, I appreciate for the detailed insight. Would eating one piece of salmon and fish oil supplement a day would be enough to fit the ratio?

Try sunflower seeds...more affordable

 

[Selb]

The "More plates" guy already tried this and had no apparent effect on hair also he claims that only estrone increased in serum and not the other more potent estrogens.
Still, for those who want to try this route, a combination of progesterone with alfatradiol or estrone it's much safer.
In italy the most renowned hair doctors use this combination for years along min, finasteride and dutasteride.

A presentation from a doctor https://www.ishrs-htforum.org/content/htfi/24/5/170.full.pdf

A 6 year story of a guy using such a mix

I think the idea is to concentrate the estrogen in the scalp when combined with microneedling. Is there anyway to get that above mix (the one from that doctor) premade?

And is that guy with the amazing recovery from the Italian forum using that same mix? Amazing example of recovery. Found his regimen, attached it

 

[Ticken]

Try sunflower seeds...more affordable

I'm not sure that sunflower seeds are ideal to reach that 4:1 ratio but they are delicious.
https://cronometer.com/ is pretty helpful to tally up your daily intake of Omega 6 and Omega 3.